Evolution vs Religion

[Gamefreak103]

I have heard a good argument recently.
I think they should be separated.

Evolution is a study of science, which you can accept or reject (your choice)

Religion to me is what you believe in. (which is not science)

What do you think?

[Darkwatch]

Evolution is scientifically provable.

Religion (almost 100% of the time) isn't.

They are entirely different in my eyes.

[Gamefreak103]

I accept evolution, my reason, there is too much proof!

[SquishyZ3ro]

Which evolution are you talking about, here? There are several types, the most common being Natural Selection and Common Descent... >.> Natural Selection does not conflict with religion at all, whereas Common Descent does. (In some interpretations, anyway.)

[Darkwatch]

Actually, Evolution doesn't have a lot of proof at all.

The only 100% physical evidence that exists is fossils, and Darwin's finches at the Galapagos Islands. In which their beak's change shape every generation in response to the seed size (the food they eat). Then again, that's closer to natural selection, but still. Same concept in both ways.

[RoxasNoxas]

I would say that you guys got it switched around. Evolution is more of a fantasy explanation of how we got here. Biblical truth is much more scientific. Makes a lot more sense.

[Darkwatch]

I would say that you guys got it switched around. Evolution is more of a fantasy explanation of how we got here. Biblical truth is much more scientific. Makes a lot more sense.

Show me any passage from the bible that is provable. PHYSICALLY provable.

[Soushirei]

I would say that you guys got it switched around. Evolution is more of a fantasy explanation of how we got here. Biblical truth is much more scientific. Makes a lot more sense.
Whoa whoa, what?

Evolutionary factors like Natural Selection and Genetic Drift have been proven, my friend. Where is the 'scientific' proof that God made the world in seven days?

[SquishyZ3ro]

Show me any passage from the bible that is provable. PHYSICALLY provable.

Noah's arc and the great flood.

Chi-ca-chow!


To answer above poster; where is the proof the world was made by rocks crashing into eachother?

[Darkwatch]

Noah's arc and the great flood.

Chi-ca-chow!Wow.

Noah's arc wasn't even "Noah's Arc". It was a remake of a flood that happened to a farmer in Mesopotamia.

It happened, but a lot of it isn't entirely true.

[Soushirei]

Noah's arc and the great flood.

Chi-ca-chow!


To answer above poster; where is the proof the world was made by rocks crashing into eachother?
I'll take the Big Bang Theory over Creation Theory, any day.

And the point I was debating was not to be taken literally. My point was: How is the Biblical explanation of Creation *more* scientific than the Big Bang, which is actually conjectured by chemical properties and behaviours that were empirically tested--and in many cases, proven?

[SquishyZ3ro]

Don't see why. ;D I like the idea of going to heaven much better than dissipating and turning into blank matter.

And the Noah's Ark thing did happen, that's been proven. Whether it WAS Noah or his Ark can't be proven. It's all speculation.

But it happened. ;D

Little add-on: mind you, I imagine we'll never be able to find out if everyone really did die in the flood. Coulda been a tad exaggerated. ;D

Another add-on to answer last poster's add-on: "Proven" is a word that means a majority of scientists decided that was the best possible explanation. Just because a few chemicals match up or they THINK they know how to date back millions/billions of years, doesn't mean it is fact. It's still speculation. In science, you can never prove anything. Only disprove.

[Soushirei]

Another add-on to answer last poster's add-on: "Proven" is a word that means a majority of scientists decided that was the best possible explanation. Just because a few chemicals match up or they THINK they know how to date back millions/billions of years, doesn't mean it is fact.
The religious standpoint has completely no integrity to argue 'facts'.

It's still speculation. In science, you can never prove anything. Only disprove.
Wrong. Flawed insinuation. You can't prove things that have to do with the mechanics of chemical reactions on an atomic level or the mechanics of the atom itself. Applied science, on the other hand (such as what causes Cytolysis to occur) is very provable. You can do it under a microscope.

And yes, I believe I did type it as "Big Bang Theory". When did I say it was fact?

[Gamefreak103]

Religion can't be science!

Science is either accepted or rejected based on observations and other kinds of tests.

Religion is a belief, there is no science in it whatsoever!

[Soushirei]

Religion can't be science!

Science is either accepted or rejected based on observations and other kinds of tests.

Religion is a belief, there is no science in it whatsoever!
I agree wholeheartedly with what you just said.

Just tell that to RoxasNoxas, who claims the Bible is more scientific and makes much more sense.

That's where it gets iffy. While I don't shun 'faith', 'faith' lacks logic. When people throw around the term "makes more sense", logic is an integral part of this statement. So to say "The Bible makes more sense than Science"; I have to disagree.

[libregkd]

Here is the problem....alot of people take the bible literally when it really shouldn't. The book is filled with metaphor, parables, and what not. For example, the time before the "Great Flood" People were supposable living 750-900 years. Does anyone really believe that? I am a religious person(not like a hard-core Christian or anything) but I actually belive in Evolution and Big Bang Theory.

Meh *Shrugs*

[Gamefreak103]

Here is the problem....alot of people take the bible literally when it really shouldn't. The book is filled with metaphor, parables, and what not. For example, the time before the "Great Flood" People were supposable living 750-900 years. Does anyone really believe that? I am a religious person(not like a hard-core Christian or anything) but I actually belive in Evolution and Big Bang Theory.

Meh *Shrugs*

Don't say the word believe, that makes science sound like belief!:rolleyes:

[libregkd]

Don't say the word believe, that makes science sound like belief!:rolleyes:
Ok then, give me another world to replace it then.

[Spitfire]

I accept evolution for the reasons of:
1. It has years of proof behind it, and although it has its illogical parts, I have more trust in it then religion.
2. Religion can not be proven, end of story, that is something that a person believes and accepts which personally I find very hard comprehend.

It just seems so odd for me to put myself in the idea that something bigger created everything when I do have a sense of truth in front of me. Or for all I know they are interconnected some how.

[Joseki]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs

gg =)

[Darkwatch]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs

gg =)

+ rep.

Best post of the day.

[SquishyZ3ro]

Trusting in Science is all a belief in human logic. We have not "proven" anything using science, we've simply all come to similar conclusions dealing with "scientific" issues. I choose to not put much faith in science, as, to me, it's all a series of conclusions that we -think- are true.

[Darkwatch]

Trusting in Science is all a belief in human logic. We have not "proven" anything using science, we've simply all come to similar conclusions dealing with "scientific" issues. I choose to not put much faith in science, as, to me, it's all a series of conclusions that we -think- are true.What do you mean?

Science isn't like mythology, man. Religion is a form of mythology, as it has -zero- proof. Science has countless pieces of physical biological evidence supporting it. If it weren't true, then why do we teach it in schools?

It wouldn't make sense to make an entire classroom dedicated to something that weren't true. This is why religion isn't really taught in the same manner. It's not accepted as easily because, well, where's our dozens of layers of subjects to learn about?

Science has genetics, biology, chemistry, physics and many more. Religion has countless religions that aren't connected whatsoever.

[Catch the Rain]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs

gg =)

LMAO! :D

As an archaeolgist/geologist I find it hard to agree with something that claims the Earth is only 6000 years old and that humans were created as we are!

I also think it's a bit hypocritical for people to call science nothing but "beliefs and conclusions" surely religion is also based on belief?

There is some sound archaeological evidence for some of the stories in the Bible, but there is also a hell of a lot of evidence for evolution which can't be discounted.

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe that fossils etc have been planted deliberately to test my faith! Science and religion have been fighting for a such a long time, surely it's time to come out of the dark ages and realise that both are seperate to each other! They both have their own purpose, I believe in my religion but I have also seen too much evidence to support evolution and science to not trust in that!

Hehehe religion gives us beliefs and science helps us to understand those beliefs in a way! Anywayz I'm now rambling......:D

xxxxx

Disclaimer: Any offence or general annoyance can not be deemed the fault of Catch The Rain! No intention of offence was meant and Catch The Rain can not be held accountable for damage her opinions may cause! :D :p

[Spitfire]

Trusting in Science is all a belief in human logic. We have not "proven" anything using science, we've simply all come to similar conclusions dealing with "scientific" issues. I choose to not put much faith in science, as, to me, it's all a series of conclusions that we -think- are true.

True but in science, we have some what tangible evidence that we evolved. I can not say that we have proof of the big bang, but as for evolving over time that I can beilive completely cause I have seen scientific fact infront of my eyes. Where as with creationism, I find it hard to put faith in something so intangible that all I have to run on is a sense of feeling which is not sufficenty enough to give my ful beleif.

[Kingdom Glory]

I'm just saying this because I AM a Christian...

Evolution is not true, because God did not make us as monkeys, and on a NON CHRISTIAN NOTE: Why are there still gorillas, apes and monkeys out there?
Besides...Darwin said his theory was a bust, anyhow.

[Laurence_Fox]

It wouldn't make sense to make an entire classroom dedicated to something that weren't true. This is why religion isn't really taught in the same manner. It's not accepted as easily because, well, where's our dozens of layers of subjects to learn about?


I beg to differ Darky. I can understand what you're saying but I had twelve years of religion classes. Granted they were mostly "Read this passage of the Bible and interpret it." or "Read this passage and rewrite it in modern terms." or "Memorize this and this and this and this." classes. They weren't the same as say your chemistry or anatomy courses but I had to take them all the same. I'm just glad it's done.

I'm more scientific in my thinking and I prefer an evolution standpoint. Since it's hard for me to accept some all knowing being in the sky just magically creating everything past and present as a fact. But the spark that started evolution?

I had a science teacher in high school. She wasn't in the Evolution Vs. Creationism group. But rather she had the idea of God/Allah/Bhudda/whatever setting evolution into motion. Sort of melding the two ideas together into a format that worked for her.

Myself, I like the scientific standpoint that humans did evolve from apes since it can be seen in the similarities in the bones of "Lucy" to those of our own.

[Kingdom Glory]

No no no, Saix.
I can't accept what you say!
There is a higher being.
God DOES exist!
I've seen things happen that ONLY GOD can explain!

[Laurence_Fox]

No no no, Saix.
I can't accept what you say!
There is a higher being.
God DOES exist!
I've seen things happen that ONLY GOD can explain!

Perhaps I havn't seen the same things that you have. To avoid the whole 'Hellfire and Brimstone' posts I've seen in previous discussions. I won't comment too much to keep the thread on topic. -nods to the staff-

Perhaps your faith is stronger than mine in the whole religious figure up in the sky thing.

But back to Evolution vs. Religion...

My views still stand. I like the Evolution Theory better since it's more easily proven.

[Soushirei]

Trusting in Science is all a belief in human logic. We have not "proven" anything using science, we've simply all come to similar conclusions dealing with "scientific" issues. I choose to not put much faith in science, as, to me, it's all a series of conclusions that we -think- are true.
Your last line is what gets me. You don't put faith in science because it's a 'series of conclusions that we -think- are true'. How is religious faith any different? And furthermore, these 'conclusions that we -think- are true' in religious faith are for the most part, less 'provable' than scientific truth.

You can have your faith, I really don't care, but your justification based off that statement is just really weak.

[Cin]

Okay

I will address every issue in the last 30 or so posts in this one post.

God does not exist, there's no evidence and the whole idea of him is beyond farfetched. Anything "miracles" you people may have seen, well, you can believe them if you want, but I'm an evolution guy, that's just the way it is.

There's FAR more proof towards evolution and sicence then religion and intelligent design. Seriously, how can you prove anything that happened in the bible. You're really gonna believe a religion to tell you about your past? The bible was written by men, for men, it's not a history book, it's a story.

We developed from apes, how do we know this? We've found bones...humans bones...that were combinations of apes and humans. We've found hundreds of them. That not enough proof for you? Why have we found these bones, these boens that are chemically and scientifically, more then 6000 years old? Because we evolved from them, long before the bible was written.

Noah's arc, never happened. A small scale variation of it might have. Like a farmer in a Valley in mesopotamia, he might have loaded his sheep on a small ship to wade out a storm or something. But it's physically impossible for Noah's arc to exist. SERIOUSLY. There's not enough water on the planet, not in the atmosphere, IN the earth, or in every human being combined, to flood the entire planet. There never was that much water and there never has been that much water. Anyone who thinks that Noah's Arc has been proven, you're a dumbass and misinterpretted something.

Okay...come on people, keep em coming, I've got all day. ;D

[Kingdom Glory]

Okay

I will address every issue in the last 30 or so posts in this one post.

God does not exist, there's no evidence and the whole idea of him is beyond farfetched. Anything "miracles" you people may have seen, well, you can believe them if you want, but I'm an evolution guy, that's just the way it is.

I'm sorry. I read the first line and I almost puked.
You can not say, can NOT say "There is no God..." You CAN'T!
There is proof out there. If you actually read the bible a bit, you would find it.
Scientists have, over and over again, proven God....because they try to prove themselves but can't.

So don't you DARE say "God doesn't exist"
Because that is the biggest bull crap ever said.

[Cin]

I HAVE read the bible, 4 times in fact. And everytime I do it seems more and more wrong. God doesn't exist, it's s simple fact and a simple concept to grasp. Evolution and random coincidence is all that created us. And the chances of someplace like the Earth being created...well...it had to happen. The universe is so infinitly big, that the chances, although very slim, are still pretty good. And scientists have proved god exists? Give me this "proof". Go ahead...give me everything you've got. I'll disprove it. You can believe what you want, but don't push your religion on me, I'm a stone that cannot be broken when it comes to my views.

[Kingdom Glory]

I HAVE read the bible, 4 times in fact. And everytime I do it seems more and more wrong. God doesn't exist, it's s simple fact and a simple concept to grasp. Evolution and random coincidence is all that created us. And the chances of someplace like the Earth being created...well...it had to happen. The universe is so infinitly big, that the chances, although very slim, are still pretty good. And scientists have proved god exists? Give me this "proof". Go ahead...give me everything you've got. I'll disprove it. You can believe what you want, but don't push your religion on me, I'm a stone that cannot be broken when it comes to my views.
You won't convert?
Okay.
I respect that, but PLEASE, don't ever let me hear you say you -KNOW- God doesn't exist...

Darwin theory....did you know he said it was fake? Before he died...he said it was all false? Did ya know that??
Noah's Ark DID happen. They FOUND EVIDENCE!
Look at the Bombardier Beetle...could that happen "by chance"
nope.
Could something come from nothing?
nope.
Could someone get healed by "Chance"?
If by God, ya!
I have seen people get healed of CANCER and other diseases when someone put their HANDS on the HEAD of the person!

[Cin]

1. The Darwin theory. Darwin was alive back ina very religious time. Of course he'd think it to be fake. He was christian, and although they were his discoveries, evolution would tear his world apart. You can't disprove evolution byt eh inner struggle of a christian man.

2. Show me the evidence. I've studied this particular topic many times before, and have never seen anything more thent he ravings of Christians who refuse to believe that they based their entire lives on something false.

3. Bombardier beetle? Yes...it could.

4. There was never "nothing". The big bang, if that's what you're refering to, happened due to many chemical reactions and collisions caused by demensions and universe unknown. As in, there was never nothing, there was something before that big bang that caused it, as in MATTER, not god. If, in a sense, you're trying to say that you can't get something from nothing, well, can you get anything from God? Has god ever shown himself to you? In the flesh? If you truly beleive god created everything, then you would aslo know, when god was creating things, they just popped into existance out of nowhere. Soemthing from nothing, there you go, you just disprovved yourself, good job.../:

5. Dude...it's called pressure points and body anatomy, as well as lack of stress, hypnosis, and tension. You can cure someone of cancer by touching their forehead, because those status ailments are caused by the body. It's easy to trick the body and make it do whatever you want. You can make an insane person sane by hitting them hard enough. Deseases and things...well...that's another story. Cancer is a desease caused by foreign materials entering the human body. The body creates chemicals to counteract it but overcompensates, and then begins to destroy itself. Cancer can be caused by stress, smoking, radiation, and many other things. But overall, something like cancer is a desease caused by yourself. If you beleive you can get rid of it, you can. If you lack hope, you can't. You can trick yourself into getting rid of it. The "touch of god" you're refering to is just as much crap as you probably think is spewing out of my evil little devil-infested mouth right now. But guess what...it's the truth. And the only truth with evidence.

Okay man, give me more, this is fun! =D

Ps: You do realize the touch of god is a scam? It doesn't exist, they use actors and things to draw in peoples money. It's been going on for years. 80% of those things are completely fake. The rest of them are what I stated above.

[Cloaked-Schemer]

i personally believe in the evolutionary theory but we have no right to force our beliefs upon others, it's up to ourselves what we believe in that is what makes us humans so special being able to have our own opinions

[Laurence_Fox]

Cin, I think I love you. xD

Anyone who can shove the Bible in my face and say 'This is proof God exists.' Deserves to be smacked several times in the face. I'm sorry but I've read the book too many times to pick out all the errors and mistakes in it.

The whole thing reminds me of the whole Jesus can't be black cause he's the son of God arguement. Granted he's not dark but he's not Nordic pale either.

But yes a Book written by Men for Men is not proof God exists. It's like saying that Talking animals exist because of Garfield.

As for the laying on of hands, yes it's a nice example of faith but complete bull pucky. As Cin said, the body can do wondrous things when it wants to. If a cancer patient BELIEVES enough that they can get well then there is a better chance they will. But if it goes with 'I'm going to die in 6 months.' Then there's a greater chance it will happen.

If a patient with cancer gets blessed by a priest, they'll feel better about themselves and want to get better.

But as for believing there is a God, I'm sorry, but don't shove your views on me. I had enough of that growing up for it to happen on an internet forum as well. I know we evolved from primates because we -ARE- yet primates. We have more in common with chimpanzees than some of us would like to admit. We aren't these perfect beings we make ourselves out to be.

But I'll stop before this turns into a rant.

[Catch the Rain]

Cin you have my respect! *clicks karma* :D
IPraise so do you!
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
There are a lot of really good arguments coming across here! But I just want to say that as I said earlier there is too much evidence for evolution for it to be fake or false! But I don't think anyone can say that God does not exist! Science can prove many things but the existence of any God cannot be proven or disproven by man!

Although can I just ask, someone said that evolution can't be real because there are still primates and stuff but then tell me where all the damn unicorns are! God created unicorns so why aren't they still around?

:rolleyes: For every argument there is a counter argument, at the end of the day (it's night) no seriously at the end of the day what people believe isn't going change overnight, nor should they be so stop trying to make people!



:D *goes off with a really big net* Now I'm gonna go catch me a Unicorn......

[8730]

i get the feeling this argument is going to go on for the rest of time, cos neither side is probly ever going to be able to prove for certain that the other is wrong, and as long as theres the slightest chance that both are possible, it will continue

[Darkwatch]

You won't convert?
Okay.
I respect that, but PLEASE, don't ever let me hear you say you -KNOW- God doesn't exist...

Darwin theory....did you know he said it was fake? Before he died...he said it was all false? Did ya know that??
Noah's Ark DID happen. They FOUND EVIDENCE!
Look at the Bombardier Beetle...could that happen "by chance"
nope.
Could something come from nothing?
nope.
Could someone get healed by "Chance"?
If by God, ya!
I have seen people get healed of CANCER and other diseases when someone put their HANDS on the HEAD of the person!1. Darwin SAYS it's false. Does that make it false? No.

Noah's Ark?? WTF. You must know nothing about it, clearly. Noah's ark...wasn't even "Noah". It was a tweaked story about a farmer in ancient Mesopotamia who suffered from the floods of the Tigris/Euphrates.

And how can someone get healed by chance? I find that beyond impossible. You know Leroy Jenkins? The famous healer? Yeah, only 66 out of his BILLIONS of healings were ever miracle. What does that tell you? That tells me it's either cured right after or the person convinced themselves of being cured--therefore curing themselves.

[Kingdom Glory]

There is no "Touch of God" I never said there was!
I said, basically, "People lay there hands on people that need prayer and they are healed!"

[Cin]

Yeah...that's called the "Touch of god". That's litterally the term of it. I've seen the shows before myself thank you...;P

[Kingdom Glory]

Dude....I have PHYSICALLY healed people.
Okay?
I pray for people and they get healed.
I've been healed too.
I don't wanna hear you dissing my religion!

[Darkwatch]

There is no "Touch of God" I never said there was!
I said, basically, "People lay there hands on people that need prayer and they are healed!"Same thing.

When priest's heal people they touch the person and God uses that person as a bridge to heal the person in need.

And again, that is also called, "the touch of God". If you say there isn't, that means you just contradicted yourself.

Also, you of all people should know mere humans like us cannot heal. God is super natural, we are just plain 'natural'. I even knew that.

Dude....I have PHYSICALLY healed people.
Okay?
I pray for people and they get healed.
I've been healed too.
I don't wanna hear you dissing my religion!He isn't insulting you.

He's giving you factual evidence supporting why he's right. And you have yet to show us any.

And no, you have never physically healed anyone. God has, if anyone. God heals everyone, no human can ever heal someone with a touch.

[Kingdom Glory]

I just said.
I know there is God because I have healed and seen get healed and BEEN healed!

[Cin]

I'm not dissing anyone's religion...>.>

I personally think Christianity began with good intentions, but led to something that is just completely unessecary today. We have science to explaint hings, Science that has proof and fact behind it. We don't need religion, it's only holding us back. We came to be who we are today through evolution, not through God. God exists only int he hearts and minds who believe in him. And in that sense, we are all our own gods. You can continue to believe what you want, but I'm an athiest, so please don't try and prove to me something that you cannot prove. I've seen the evidence, I've lived on both sides, and I chose atheism...because...well, it's just smarter in my opinion. I have faith in basically no one but myself, it's hard for me to trust people, I'll admit that. Atheism was my chosen path. The one I chose for myself.

[Darkwatch]

I'm not dissing anyone's religion...>.>

I personally think Christianity began with good intentions, but led to something that is just completely unessecary today. We have science to explaint hings, Science that has proof and fact behind it. We don't need religion, it's only holding us back. We came to be who we are today through evolution, not through God. God exists only int he hearts and minds who believe in him. And in that sense, we are all our own gods. You can continue to believe what you want, but I'm an athiest, so please don't try and prove to me something that you cannot prove. I've seen the evidence, I've lived on both sides, and I chose atheism...because...well, it's just smarter in my opinion. I have faith in basically no one but myself, it's hard for me to trust people, I'll admit that. Atheism was my chosen path. The one I chose for myself.Well you can't say that you won't respect people for having opinions. That's just plain arrogant and mean.

But yeah, I'm Agnostic so I don't know. I just like evolution better. Since it is by far more interesting, has more depth and perception to it, and feels, in total, a lot easier to grip. It makes sense and doesn't sound like something out of a fairy tale.

And I too have lived on both sides. I used to live a Christian life out of fear, but not anymore. D: I could care less. XD

[Kingdom Glory]

It's your opinion, and I respect that.
Just asking not to say you KNOW God is fake.
I know for fact he's real.

[libregkd]

It's your opinion, and I respect that.
Just asking not to say you KNOW God is fake.
I know for fact he's real.
You can't have it both ways. If they aren't allowed to say they know God is fake, you shouldn't be saying he is, in fact, real.

Personally, I'm at a stand still in what to believe. I've been a Catholic for around 14 years or so. But, for the most part siding with Cin on this one. There are tons of evidence supporting evolution. But you can't really say science has 'disproven' the Bible....when all the Bible is, and should be interpreted as, a collection of stories that are representing 'God's' word. No one can actually prove that God is exists, that why it is called faith. But its just as hard to prove that there isn't a higher being out there. I think thats why I am still a semi-religious person. Because I like the fact that there is a higher being out there, somewhere that could intervene with life if need be.

Holy crap can I ramble o.0;;;

[Kingdom Glory]

Okay, i worded it wrong.
I have faith in him...when I say "I KNOW he's real"
It means I have faith in his existence.

[Gamefreak103]

Religion can't be science!

Science is either accepted or rejected based on observations and other kinds of tests.

Religion is a belief, there is no science in it whatsoever!

Just wanted to show you people what I said earlier, I am still sticking to what I said.

[Darkwatch]

It's your opinion, and I respect that.
Just asking not to say you KNOW God is fake.
I know for fact he's real.Wtf?

If we can't say we know he's fake, then you can't say you know he's real.

To be honest, there's no proof at ALL. There's no way you can tell me you've seen God, felt God, sensed God, because chances are it was you fooling yourself.

And also, there's no proof he does not exist. However, biology and genetics clearly hint for a counter-effect at the bible.

[Kingdom Glory]

@Game
Are you religious or are you into sciences?
And Darky, I answered that already!

[Darkwatch]

kg7, do you go to religious school?

Creation science, etc...?

[Kingdom Glory]

I go to a Christian school.
It's all normal except one class.

[KeyBladePrideAMV]

I'm learning about this in school.

Theroy of Evolution debate side 1 ~ "God created the sun moon starts, blah, blah, blah.

#2 ~ When the Earth was in it's early stages, carbon dioxide and nitrogen were in the air, and when it's mixed wiht amino acids (protients), it creates a cell, in which, it multiplied and created life. >_>

[libregkd]

I'm learning about this in school.

Theroy of Evolution debate side 1 ~ "God created the sun moon starts, blah, blah, blah.

#2 ~ When the Earth was in it's early stages, carbon dioxide and nitrogen were in the air, and when it's mixed wiht amino acids (protients), it creates a cell, in which, it multiplied and created life. >_>
You like seeing things in black and white, don't you? <_<;

[KeyBladePrideAMV]

Maybe I do? Please, explain your side.

[Darkwatch]

I'm learning about this in school.

Theroy of Evolution debate side 1 ~ "God created the sun moon starts, blah, blah, blah.

#2 ~ When the Earth was in it's early stages, carbon dioxide and nitrogen were in the air, and when it's mixed wiht amino acids (protients), it creates a cell, in which, it multiplied and created life. >_>There's also a third.

#3 ~ Extraterrestrial population (meteor's from outer space brought life to Earth's surface in it's early ages).


But that's a different topic.

[libregkd]

My side? I'm a gray......as in my last post, I stated I wasn't 100% backing either Science or Religion. Though for the most part I always think there is a logical explanation for everything, I can't shake the feeling that there actually is a God out there.

[Soushirei]

My side? I'm a gray......as in my last post, I stated I wasn't 100% backing either Science or Religion. Though for the most part I always think there is a logical explanation for everything, I can't shake the feeling that there actually is a God out there.
Maybe you're agnostic, like me.

This is probably why I don't get heavily involved in these religious debates. I'm not as careless as to claim something I can't prove. My perspective is more like skepticism rather than belief.

Agnostic = me.

[Spitfire]

Maybe you're agnostic, like me.

This is probably why I don't get heavily involved in these religious debates. I'm not as careless as to claim something I can't prove. My perspective is more like skepticism rather than belief.

Agnostic = me.

That is what I am, and I have to say it really kinda sucks. I would love to belive one or the other, but the idea of something bigger controlling life is so hard to comprehend, but at the same time so is the big bang. But either way I lean to evolution, it is truly a much more logical and tangible idea compared to creationism.

[SquishyZ3ro]

I'm gonna skip like, the last 3 pages since it's all either anti-religion posts or anti-science posts... No debating...

To answer Darky's last post to me, I mean that the only difference between Science and Religion is that Science deals with the human world, human existance and human creation. Religion dabbles in all of that, but focusses on extraordinary themes like the spiritual world, death and life. Science is claimed to be fact ONLY because it matches what a few smart people have said, and it's easier to understand than something spiritual. We cannot disprove religion, but we cannot prove it, so we choose Science over religion simply because it's easier. I do hope you understand what I mean. xD I'm having difficulty explaining at this hour...

Basically, I don't believe in Science. I believe in Religion. To me, Religion is fact, and Science is just our way of explaining things we don't comprehend. It's a crutch for us to lean on.

[Kingdom Glory]

Squishy, i agree with your last little phrase there!
Basically, I don't believe in Science. I believe in Religion. To me, Religion is fact, and Science is just our way of explaining things we don't comprehend. It's a crutch for us to lean on.

[Spitfire]

I'm gonna skip like, the last 3 pages since it's all either anti-religion posts or anti-science posts... No debating...

To answer Darky's last post to me, I mean that the only difference between Science and Religion is that Science deals with the human world, human existance and human creation. Religion dabbles in all of that, but focusses on extraordinary themes like the spiritual world, death and life. Science is claimed to be fact ONLY because it matches what a few smart people have said, and it's easier to understand than something spiritual. We cannot disprove religion, but we cannot prove it, so we choose Science over religion simply because it's easier. I do hope you understand what I mean. xD I'm having difficulty explaining at this hour...

Basically, I don't believe in Science. I believe in Religion. To me, Religion is fact, and Science is just our way of explaining things we don't comprehend. It's a crutch for us to lean on.
To say the least I have to disagree with the last line, I find it hard to put my faith in something that I can not feel is there. Trust me I have tried really hard, I have read the bible many times, and yet nothing. I envy people that can fully believe in it really. But scientific fact clicks for me, I know that nothing we know is 100%, but I do know that it help explain alot of things.

[Kingdom Glory]

Oi vay!
If my bible teacher was here, we would all be DEAD from boredom...
Anyways...I agree with it a lot!
I know I seem like the ONLY one...but I seriously want to stand up for what I know is right...even though I may not be able to PROVE I'm right...I KNOW I am.
God is out there...You just need to open up to him and INVITE Him in.

[Soushirei]

Oi vay!
If my bible teacher was here, we would all be DEAD from boredom...
Anyways...I agree with it a lot!
I know I seem like the ONLY one...but I seriously want to stand up for what I know is right...even though I may not be able to PROVE I'm right...I KNOW I am.
God is out there...You just need to open up to him and INVITE Him in.
You mean what you 'believe is right', and that you 'believe' God is out there.

Don't push your opinions on others like that, with the entire 'I know I'm right' comment. If you can't prove it then you can't 'know' you're right. You can believe you're right. At least scientists put the word 'theory' behind a lot of their stuff, and use careful words like 'suggestive evidence'.

Such vocabulary isn't found in religion, where it's all spoken like fact--when it isn't.

[Spitfire]

Oi vay!
If my bible teacher was here, we would all be DEAD from boredom...
Anyways...I agree with it a lot!
I know I seem like the ONLY one...but I seriously want to stand up for what I know is right...even though I may not be able to PROVE I'm right...I KNOW I am.
God is out there...You just need to open up to him and INVITE Him in.

But the thing is that I have tried to open to it, alot of people can not seem to find it in for them, and It will be hard if not impossible to convice people something like that. People can try but, not everyone is so open to it. And I love how much enthusiasium for christ, many of my friends are as well, and I wish you the best at proving it to people. Really to prove he is really is impossible people think differently, and not everyone will comprehend it.

I second what ロクサス said above.

[SquishyZ3ro]

You might want to go tell the others about that, too. Us believers in God aren't the only ones pushing our ideals. I remember Cin saying several times that he/she knows there is no God and that there is no supreme power in existance. I try not to push my beliefs, though, and I do try my best to note that they are only MY beliefs, not fact.

I think that Science is as much a belief as Religion is, the only difference is that there are more things we've found to match up with Science. However, I also believe that Religion and Science can intertwine with one another. For instance; God could have -started- evolution and perhaps we took the bible's creation a little too literally. Or perhaps all of our links using DNA to put every creature into a single evolutionary tree are simply coincidence, and we really have nothing relative to them in terms of creation.

Both Religion and Science are formed of speculation, assumptions and similarities. Religion is also filled with speculation, assumptions and similarities. There are just fewer similarities and more speculation and assumptions. But I still prefer to hold fast in my faith, and put little into Science. Why? Because if religion is right, and I hold my faith, I'll be sent to paradise. If I hold my faith in religion, but science is right, it makes no difference.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Evolution is just a theory & religion is just a faith.
Theories about evolution & any other theories for that matter are constantly changing... scientists can never keep their stories straight, but some of them do have strong evidence that there theories are right.
Nobody can prove if God exsists or if he doesn't, people just have a faith in him. They get a type of comfort feeling believing that he is real.

It's completely up to people what they want to believe, i myself believe in God but i do accept & listen to what other people think about these things.
So you's all should listen & respect what other people believe in & stop trying to enforce what you think is "right".

[Kingdom Glory]

I like what you have to say there, Kitty.
It's true that theories can and can't be true. It's all what we believe and WANT to believe.
I respect that Cin wants to be atheist and that Darky wants to be agnostic (Did i get that right O.o )
But at the same time, I hate it when people say they -know- there's no God.
All I have to say. Thanks for listening.

[Soushirei]

But I still prefer to hold fast in my faith, and put little into Science. Why? Because if religion is right, and I hold my faith, I'll be sent to paradise. If I hold my faith in religion, but science is right, it makes no difference.
I'm not trying to 'push any ideal' by saying this, but if that's the only reason why you're choosing faith, it seems more like you choose religion out of fear rather than genuine belief to me.

Lots of people who choose science over religion do it not because they 'disrespect God' or think it's stupid, they just have much more reassurance in the scientific explanation than the religious one. People who lack faith aren't always considered sinful.

I am a baptized Roman Catholic, and have attended mass and taken religion all the way through Grade 12 (mass still ongoing), and it was only in Grade 12 that I learned several things about the Roman Catholic religion--one being that:

- non-believers aren't always sent to hell

So if God is real, you're saying everyone different from your faith is going to hell, including the Buddhists, the Hinduists, the Shintoists, the Taoists, not just the Atheists and the Agnostics.

And that's really another thing people hate about the religious ideal being pushed onto others.

[SquishyZ3ro]

I didn't say that is why I hold my faith, I said that is why I put little into science...

I figured you'd understand I'm quite faithful by now. xD

[Cin]

Squishy, I'm sorry to say this but I personally believe your ideas to be warped. Religion is the "crutch" in todays society. Science is the "fact". Meaning that we are taught to beleive science and evolutionary theory is correct. However, when we fall upon bad times, most people don't look to science to comfort them. They look to religion because they've had it with the facts and want something to beleive in. Religion gives people hope, either out of fear or out of stress or pain, it's the crutch of society. Athiests, well, they're strong in their opinions, and we fight a lot for our views. But our views are sad ones. We don't beleive in heaven, when you die, you rot in the ground and any conciosness of you is erased. You are gone. I'd LIKE to beleive the bible, I'd LIKE to believe in religion, but I can't. Science is my foundation, and it's a scary and sad thing to believe in, mostly because the truth hurts. People turn to religion because the truth hurts and they go into denial about it and say there's always a god and a heaven waiting for them. People beleive in religion out of fear, wether you think you do or not, that's the only reason. Subconciouslly you're scared of what death truly means, so you go for the happiest interpretation.

Getting back to evolution...XD...it's a theory...yes...but the Earth cannot lie. Someonthing that big can't. And it has given us countless evidence that humans derived from something simpler, and that...hey, maybe gods did create the Earth, but if they did, the bible is wrong. Maybe gods put the evolution into motion, maybe they created Earth a lot longer ago. The bible was written by man and therefore cannot be trusted. wether or not it's the "word" of god. If the gods wrote it, then presented it to us, then I might be a christian right now. But humans did write it, claiming god told them what to write. Humans are imperfect, and we always will be. But we're getting closer and closer to our full potential.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

... The bible was written by man and therefore cannot be trusted. wether or not it's the "word" of god. If the gods wrote it, then presented it to us, then I might be a christian right now. But humans did write it, claiming god told them what to write. Humans are imperfect, and we always will be. But we're getting closer and closer to our full potential.

But it is man that is creating these theories so... can we not trust these theories.

[Cin]

I wish you people would stop brining up the word "theories". 90% of science has been proven.

[Mirai]

But it is man that is creating these theories so... can we not trust these theories.

Correct. However, there is also PHYSICAL evidence holding up these theories. Yes, the theories are fallable; all things made by man are. However, the reason why I do not agree with the bible is that it has NO physical evidence. A man named Jesus may have existed, but a man named Muhhammed may have also.

[Darkwatch]

I wish you people would stop brining up the word "theories". 90% of science has been proven.Actually, science just has concepts of how they 'think' things in general work.

Theory is 100% accurate.

[Cin]

Thinking and knowing is two different things. Everything that we're taught in school, unless it has a big word called "theory" next to it, has , thus far, been proven. We know human anatomy, it's not like there's little gremlins running around inside us making us breath. If we didn't know these things, after long long long trials and experiments, then we would not present them to society as fact.

[Darkwatch]

Thinking and knowing is two different things. Everything that we're taught in school, unless it has a big word called "theory" next to it, has , thus far, been proven. We know human anatomy, it's not like there's little gremlins running around inside us making us breath. If we didn't know these things, after long long long trials and experiments, then we would not present them to society as fact.>_>

That's not my point. That's not at all what I was referring to. I'm trying to say that we call 99.9% of everything a 'theory' because it's how we 'think' it works. Evolution is a theory, science is mainly theories. Biology is entirely different, Cin, for this argument. Biology makes up a small percentage of science.

[Soushirei]

While true, '90%' is an overstatement of what has been proven in science.

Everything scientific boils down to the atom to some degree. We cannot 'prove' how atoms work, instead we've gained insights on the 'possibilities' of how they 'might' work when we examine more general empirical works that we can see with our own eyes. These don't equate as fact, but rather 'acceptances' in society.

It is these 'acceptances' that is taught in schools, not facts. If society was only allowed to teach facts in schools, we wouldn't have religion courses, or philosophy courses, or poetry courses, or English for that matter, to an extent.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I wish you people would stop brining up the word "theories". 90% of science has been proven.

you yourself said that evolution was a theory. i only meant to say the word "theory" in my pervious post, as in talking about evolution.

[Cin]

Either way, we're getting off topic. Humans can't be trusted with things like religion. However, the Eerth, something much greater, as I've mentioned before, can be the best source for things like this. We humans take the earth and look at it as much as we can then turn it into science. The world is evidence in itself. In science, the Earth is the bible. The bible is a book created by man, the Earth is something far bigger and stronger, created by all that we've come to know as the universe.

[Darkwatch]

Humans can't be trusted with things like religion.But are you not the one who believes it was entirely created by humans?

[Cin]

Yes, humans completely created religion, but we truthfully shouldn't have. Humans created bibles and religions, all based on human interpreatation. And you can't trust human interpretation.

Kinda like how you keep misinterpreting me...;P

[Sanda]

But are you not the one who believes it was entirely created by humans?

What religion?
True dat. I think religion was fabricated by humans as a way to explain/comprehend the purpose of our existence.

[libregkd]

In other words, its the whole "God did not make man. It was man who made god" deal.

[Darkwatch]

Yes, humans completely created religion, but we truthfully shouldn't have. Humans created bibles and religions, all based on human interpreatation. And you can't trust human interpretation.

Kinda like how you keep misinterpreting me...;PWell if you were on this planet, had no idea WHAT this planet was, and had no way to explain things, I'm sure you'd come up with this 'religion' as well. And considering you too, are a human, with flawed interpretation, all the more reason why you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Cin]

Darky...drop it...>.>

This is about evolution and religion, not my own flawed ramblings...XD

[Darkwatch]

I see. Let's stop arguing.

Because this is clearly not the debate board. And this isn't about your flawed ramblings--it's about what you say. My post was talking about religion and evolution, didn't you see?

D:

[no-reality_allowed]

Darky...drop it...>.>
This is about evolution and religion, not my own flawed ramblings...XD

Dude, that just makes you sound like a hypocrite :\

If your ramblings are flawed like you just said, then why are you acting like yours are correct and everyone elses are wrong?

I see. Let's stop arguing.
Because this is clearly not the debate board. XD

It isn't?

I could've sworn I clicked "Debate Board" D:

[Sanda]

If your ramblings are flawed like you just said, then why are you acting like yours are correct and everyone elses are wrong?


It's human nature to act like that D:

[Darkwatch]

It isn't?

I could've sworn I clicked "Debate Board" D:I was being sarcastic.

[Cin]

Guys...spam? >.>

Back on topic: So yeah...I think evolution is right. It just has more evidence, plain and simple.

[Sanda]

Guys...spam? >.>

Back on topic: So yeah...I think evolution is right. It just has more evidence, plain and simple.

Me too- I dont think the other theories are nessicarily wrong, infact no one really knows so I just think its a whole matter of oppinions and I just happen to prefer evolution.

[Chuck Norris]

this debate really isnt going anywhere, its like fighting over what came first the chicken or the egg, everyone have a opinion, anyway just to make this post on topic i side with religion, a god making everything sounds much better then the big bang and evolution.

[JapAnimeFanatic]

i believe in evelution, science, and alot of other stuff.
its just that i dont think that we just crawled out of the ocean one day and sprouted legs and arms and could talk...
i dont think we evolved from monkeys either, if we did than we would see the modern monkeys talking, going to work, ect
so no offence to those science geeks, but i have my doubts.

[Sanda]

i dont think we evolved from monkeys either, if we did than we would see the modern monkeys talking, going to work, ect

Well theyre different species. That is what differentiates Homo sapiens from other members of the same genus. Concordantly, this is why monkey/apes cannot do all the things humans can...

I agree with you though. Honeslty, I myself havent REALLY formed an oppinion; I guess im leaning towards science but I can be swayed either way.

[Soushirei]

i dont think we evolved from monkeys either, if we did than we would see the modern monkeys talking, going to work, ect
so no offence to those science geeks, but i have my doubts.
Humans actually didn't evolve from present day apes (not monkeys). Suggestive evidence shows that humans and apes evolved from the same common ancestor. This common ancestor, although not identical to modern apes, was almost certainly more apelike than human-like in appearance and behavior. At some point -- scientists estimate that between 5 and 8 million years ago -- this species diverged into two distinct lineages, one of which were the hominids, or human-like species, and the other ultimately evolved into the African great ape species living today.

Your argument has been brought up too many times over the past few years; and explained as well.

[JapAnimeFanatic]

i still dint think evalution did all the work..
i think god is evalution.either way noone will know for sure unless someone proves it someday.

[SquishyZ3ro]

Little sidenote: I would laugh if our bodies WERE run by Gremlins that were so small we mistook them for moving plasma or somesuch rubbish.

Well, Cin, I must say you're getting a little better at saying " I believe " rather than " this is how it is ". xD I'm thankful for that, at least. Honestly, though, my ideas aren't warped simply because they differ greatly from everyone else's.... Actually, okay yeah that probly does make them warped. But I believe I'm right and that's the only thing that matters to me. =P

Now, I'd like to state that nothing we have "proven" is 100%, there's always a chance we're wrong. Look at light; we thought that light was constant, but then we found black holes that actually suck in light, making it not-so-constant. There's always gonna be -something- to add a little doubt to our "proof". Even to evolution, which by the way is still a theory.. Just a really, really strong one.

[Kingdom Glory]

The bible is a book created by man,
True, it was written by many different men, but God told them to write each book.
very word that came from God's mouth. (If he had one xD )
God never lies. So it HAS to be truth.


Now, I'd like to state that nothing we have "proven" is 100%, there's always a chance we're wrong. Look at light; we thought that light was constant, but then we found black holes that actually suck in light, making it not-so-constant. There's always gonna be -something- to add a little doubt to our "proof". Even to evolution, which by the way is still a theory.. Just a really, really strong one.
Haha, Gremlins.

That's true.
Darwin even said his theory couldn't work.
So...it was HIS theory...should we not believe him?

[Laurence_Fox]

True, it was written by many different men, but God told them to write each book.
very word that came from God's mouth. (If he had one xD )
God never lies. So it HAS to be truth.


But how do we know that it came from God? I guess that's the main problem I have with someone saying 'LOOK! This BOOK written by MEN is all the proof you need of the existence of God.'

[DJSeph]

well... ive always hated religion so... u know my answer!

[Kingdom Glory]

But how do we know that it came from God? I guess that's the main problem I have with someone saying 'LOOK! This BOOK written by MEN is all the proof you need of the existence of God.'
Wew know it came from God because of the Gospels.
In the New testament, you should know if you read the bible, there were 4 books at the beggining:
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John.

That's how we know there was a Jesus.
There is proof to back Jesus up, okay?
I haven't found it yet and, quite frankly, I am too lazy right now to search.

[Spitfire]

The bible was written by jesus's diciples after he died, it was his most loyal followers. For that we can not be totally sure of what it says, but that is what religion has to go on.
Sidenote: Comedian I heard "Jesus didn't write the bible, his friends did. And you how sometimes you friends can be jerks and get it wrong sometimes". I just found that funny.

[Kingdom Glory]

Okay, but have you -read- the bible?
Or at least the Gospels?
they say, pretty much, the same things.
That's how we know it's accurate.

[Spitfire]

Okay, but have you -read- the bible?
Or at least the Gospels?
they say, pretty much, the same things.
That's how we know it's accurate.

8 year catholic education, 12 years of christian church, and a very religious family. Yes I have, I also sat in on christian club meetings during high school. I know the bible, revelation the most.

[Kingdom Glory]

Okay.
You should KNOW then...
Gospel is right, "proof" is wrong.
God disproves all.
End of story.

[Spitfire]

Okay.
You should KNOW then...
Gospel is right, "proof" is wrong.
God disproves all.
End of story.

I know it, but by no means does the logic set right in my head, something about being controled by anything but ourselves, is crazy to me, I envy people who can feel it and I have tried but nothing logical can come from what I have read.

[Kingdom Glory]

We have free will, but God KNOWS what we are gonna do.

[Spitfire]

We have free will, but God KNOWS what we are gonna do.

I understand that, but what i am saying is that many people can not grasp the idea of something big in the world. And that it is hard to understand that "God has a plan" when so much destruction has happened or that there has been an enourmous amount of blood spilt in his name.

[Laurence_Fox]

Wew know it came from God because of the Gospels.
In the New testament, you should know if you read the bible, there were 4 books at the beggining:
Matthew
Mark
Luke
John.

That's how we know there was a Jesus.
There is proof to back Jesus up, okay?
I haven't found it yet and, quite frankly, I am too lazy right now to search.

I know all this iPraise, I've had twelve years of a catholic education. I've had to read the bible pretty much cover to cover.

For me, Evolution is easier for me to accept because of the bones found that support the theory. The bones of the earlier hominids that came before us such as Lucy and Homo Erectus and the Neanderthals. Their skulls look like our own, their hands look like ours, their faces look like ours.

And for future reference, in a debate, be able to logically back up your standpoint. Don't just say 'I'm too lazy to right now.'

[Kingdom Glory]

What about "Sodom and Gomorah"?

[Darkwatch]

Okay.
You should KNOW then...
Gospel is right, "proof" is wrong.
God disproves all.
End of story.The entire idea of an intelligent conversation is showing us how and why this is true. Not to stomp your feet and demand we listen.

Show me God disapproves all. Are you God? No. Show me the Gospel is right. :/

We have free will, but God KNOWS what we are gonna do.

What about "Sodom and Gomorah"?

God doesn't know what we are gonna do. He, even though he is all knowing, cannot tell me what my next step will be. He may know me, but if he were to predict that's a different story. He can't automatically have our set path planned out. That's not possible.

[White_Rook]

We have free will, but God KNOWS what we are gonna do.

If God knows what we're going to do and he is all-loving, all-powerful why does he still allow unspeakable evil to happen? Well, if I were you I would argue that God would like there to be some evil in the world so as to help build our souls and make us stronger and firmer believers as human beings. Of course than I would have to ask what exactly is so soul-improving about a father's conscious decision to murder his entire family and then take his life? Why couldn't God give us free will where we always freely choose to do good.

Then again I think of God as the most irrational thing to ever be conceived in this universe. You're not all that absolute if you go from malevolent and genocidal to all-loving and compassionate 600 pages later. If there is a powerful being out there there's nothing that says that it is God and that it is perfect in any way.

[Kingdom Glory]

Just throwing this out there...my friends mom is a nurse and she has examined an eye and...it can't come from an evolutional cycle.

[Soushirei]

Just throwing this out there...my friends mom is a nurse and she has examined an eye and...it can't come from an evolutional cycle.
Yes, it can. In evolutionary theory, the complexity of the eye was the product of many, many microevolutions. Straight out of Grade 12 Biology text book.

[White_Rook]

Yes, it can. In evolutionary theory, the complexity of the eyes was the product of many, many microevolutions. Straight out of Grade 12 Biology text book.

The basic components of our eyes are still found in the simple multi-cellular organisms. The basic photo-receptors (structures that capture light) and the nerves that connect to them can be found in Flat Worms.

[8730]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
that is part of what i think about the Bible, how can you prove that it was written by the disciples, and by God through them? people say "how do you know that all of this evolution stuff happened? (to an extent Big Bang etc)" religious people are just as clueless about all of this, except religion relies on faith and belief not evidence so..

[Bariyou]

Evolution is provable, mostly because it's happening right now. In fact, insects are evolving to become more and more resistant to toxins we spew. This means that man descending from orangutans is at least PLAUSIBLE, if anything.

God DOES know what we're going to do (according the Bible) but he does NOT choose for us. Think of life like one of those "Choose your adventure" books. He can read to many endings, and knows what WILL happen to us, but doesn't decide it for us. He just shelves the books, and shows us what all the possible endings could have been for us, when purgatory comes. Or, so I'd assume.

The eye-construction has been proven, check any youtube video on it.

Big-Bang is a theory, as many things scientific are. The one thing that bugs me the most is that non-religious people bash on the whole faith thing. Sorry to say, but The Big-Bang IS a THEORY, and regardless of the wording, DOES require faith and belief. All the vague, and assumed evidence aside, you HAVE to believe that it could have happened, before you take in the evidence.
Much like you have to believe in God, before you start accepting religion's rules.

Science and religion require faith, people.
They're not as different as we all think.

[Kingdom Glory]

You are wrong about that.
Our retina is UNCAPABLE of coming from evolution.
I repeat this because I have been told by a DOCTOR that it can't.

[Soushirei]

You are wrong about that.
Our retina is UNCAPABLE of coming from evolution.
I repeat this because I have been told by a DOCTOR that it can't.
Sorry, but you can't prove anything like that.

Doctors learn how to help and treat people, not answer the root of human development. I wasn't aware that Doctors held the answers to all life's mysteries.

All you've proven to me is that your Doctor doesn't believe in Evolution.

End of story.

[Kingdom Glory]

This doctor has studied on evolution and she says it's impossible.

[White_Rook]

You are wrong about that.
Our retina is UNCAPABLE of coming from evolution.
I repeat this because I have been told by a DOCTOR that it can't.

Um okay, let's just break down the physiology of the eye here. Seeing as you're quite adamant on the retina let's get that down. The retina is composed of various layer and can be peeled like an onion. Each of these layers consist of various cells, namely photoreceptors, bipolar cells, and ganglion cells. When light comes into contact with the iris it enters the pupil and hits the lens of the eye. The lense is able to change shape in order to focus on an image properly. Once sent through the lense, light makes contact with the photoreceptors of the retina which depolarize when light makes contact and send signals (information) through the bipolar cells to the ganglion cells, which are connected to nerve endings that connect to the brain. And after being processed in brain, we get sight as a result. In playyhelmenthese, which is a species of th flat worm, the "eye" structures present on the dorsal "front" of the organism consist of simplistic versions of photoreceptors and ganglion cells. They can't detect colour, but they are able to detect light from dark, and that's enough to enable them to escape predators.

You're using some old, straight-out of the book wrong arguments that favour creationism. It's also highly dubious for a doctor to say something like the retina is unable to come from evolution, especially since he/she would've taken introductory biology in both highschool and university, so if you want to make up stories those go in the RP section.

[Kingdom Glory]

I know where RP goes thank you very much.
I know what I am talking about when I say "Evolution is a bust."

[Soushirei]

This doctor has studied on evolution and she says it's impossible.
An opinion, at best.

That's like me studying on Religion and saying I can prove or disprove that God exists. The reality is that I can't do either of these.

I'm sorry, iPraise, but you really need to get around your head that just because someone says something that obviously can't be proven--be it a Doctor, Lawyer, Sears Outlet Cashier--you can't take it as fact, despite their occupation. This annoyingly reminds me of the kiddie days when little boys and girls used to run around going "No, you're wrong because my Daddy said so!"

Quite honestly, it's a little shameful for anyone to hear a single person's opinion, then run around preaching it like a textbook when you obviously haven't done any research yourself on the issue. And just for the record, I've taken Bio all throughout high school, and just finished first year Biology at York University.

If it were something that simply explained and 'proven'--why are their so many textbooks (Starting from Grade 11 Biology) all the way throughout post-secondary school--that you pay hundreds of dollars for--that discuss evolutionary theory that includes the development of the eye?
I know what I am talking about when I say "Evolution is a bust."
No. You don't, actually.

[Catch the Rain]

*Blows Whistle*

So before things get all flamey!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and since NEITHER evoloution OR religion can actually be proven as fact is there really a need to get so preacherish (yes I know I just made that word up) about what is and isn't true?

I for one believe (bad choice of word I know) in evolution because of the evidence I have seen and researched (yes researched) as an Archaeologist, Buuuuuuuuut that doesn't mean that the religious view is any less validated, just as many books are written on religious theories as there are for science.

So unless someone actually knows for fact one way or the other NO-ONE can say that Evoloution is bull, similarily NO-ONE can say that it is hard fact! People can have opinions without trying to dictate what others must follow! In my opinion your argument is lost as soon as you have to resort to that! :p

There my piece done with :D

[White_Rook]

Granted I may have been rash with that post, but an argument based on the foundation of "because someone said so" proves nothing. I can find a dentist that I could get to say "Brushing with Coca Cola improves tooth enamel", but that doesn't mean it's true.

[Catch the Rain]

Granted I may have been rash with that post, but an argument based on the foundation of "because someone said so" proves nothing. I can find a dentist that I could get to say "Brushing with Coca Cola improves tooth enamel", but that doesn't mean it's true.

Oh I fully agree lol I just didn't like the way either side was starting to get! There are enough religion/science wars without one breaking out on here lol! :D

[Alice]

So before things get all flamey!


"It's gettin' hot in here"~

Evolution is incapable of developing the retina? In application, this statement is completely unsupported. It's comparable a hut on a beach that just got swept under by a wave.

When in a world where the only way to find distinguishable features [shapes, textures etc.] between objects is brightness, it is considered to be handicapped. Most evolutionary scientists suspect that in the earlier stages of evolution simple trichromatic vision was developed. This indicates the presence of two or more cones, which are found in simple organisms. Color vision is one of the necessary attributes to our advances in intelligence today. With two or more cones the brain can see two spectral images of an object and it's surroundings. Bringing new dimension to the world. With color the brain can sense differences between objects that were invalid to it's abilities before. Further increasing observation of environment. Nearly every family of vision possessing organisms have at least one species that has trichromatic vision [or better]. All of these animals, avian, reptilian, mammalian, etc. differ in retinal structure but the anatomy of it is based of the same simple concept. Vision was a slow progression from microscopic organisms. It began with simply determining shapes through undetailed grayscale vision. There are plenty of articles on the web regarding evolution of the eye and it's capabilities. I suggest you look at them before you make naive posts like that.

[Blademaster Mai'kel]

Religion is just as believable as your "science". Who says that what we discover is the truth? Perhaps we see a twisted version of what truly exists. What if gravity is nil to one race? What if, on another world--in another dimension--physics mean nothing? What then?

[Alice]

Religion is just as believable as your "science". Who says that what we discover is the truth? Perhaps we see a twisted version of what truly exists. What if gravity is nil to one race? What if, on another world--in another dimension--physics mean nothing? What then?

Except for the part where evolution has a mountain of evidence behind it. Heh, you speak of it like it's some new discovery. Something that has absolutely no proof behind it. "your 'science'"

The Bible doesn't present CURRENT evidence. Investigative scientific research does.

Wait, what? How is any of that relevant? Because presently there is no knowledge of such...

[White_Rook]

Religion is just as believable as your "science". Who says that what we discover is the truth? Perhaps we see a twisted version of what truly exists. What if gravity is nil to one race? What if, on another world--in another dimension--physics mean nothing? What then?

Truth, like water, is fluidic and is constantly changing. It changes with what we know, and our general evolution as cognitive and living beings. And if you freeze it solid you lose it entirely-- solid truth does nothing for you. Evolution is the product of an inference to the best possible explanation-- as are all scientific inquires. With a staggering amount of evidence just within ourselves alone, it much more probable then a cosmic being deciding to make lesser beings out of his own image just for kicks.

[Alpha Sonix]

I choose Evolution over Religion any day of the week, it just feels more beleavible, not that i'm against it but look at how much technology has done for us.

[Kingdom Glory]

I choose Evolution over Religion any day of the week, it just feels more beleavible, not that i'm against it but look at how much technology has done for us.
I say religion is more believable because I have seen people healed and I have seen other miraculous things.
I, myself, have been healed.
I have seen someone walk who shouldn't be able to.

[Laurence_Fox]

I say religion is more believable because I have seen people healed and I have seen other miraculous things.
I, myself, have been healed.
I have seen someone walk who shouldn't be able to.

I've seen nothing new from you. Always the tired sayings of 'I have seen people healed with a priest who touched them.' You say 'I have seen___' and expect that to be solid evidence of the existence of religion?

Not everyone has seen the 'miracles' you have seen and thusly your observations are forfeit. Not everyone can believe so blindly the beliefs that you hold so dear to your heart.

Same as I cannot believe that some all knowing being in the heavens created all life from one thought in his all powerful mind. I cannot believe that he created Man from the dust of the Earth and Woman from Man's rib. To me these are just stories as say Sleeping Beauty is just a story.

What I can hold close to my heart is the theory of evolution because it eases my mind. Something that I can see in other words. I can look at our jaw and see the similarities in it to the jaw of a Neanderthal or those of Homo Ergastor.

To see the bones of these hominids laid out in museums inspires perhaps a spark of familiarity. Perhaps the same as seeing old family photographs your grandparents have.

[Cin]

Woo! Haven't posted here in a while.

Anyway, let's get down to business shall we!? >=D

Okay, Blademaster Maikel, that's completely irrelevant. We humans do not care about others universes, we can hardly comprehend them. This discussion is about the truth of THIS universe, this universe and it's rules. Not the distant warpings and changes that may occur in some different universe that we have no idea about.

Now, on the eye discussion. A humans eye is no more complicated then that of a flatworm, as someone has stated before. Okay, maybe a bit more complicated, but it's a perfect example of how we can compare the simple eyes of an un-evolved and un-developed flatworm to the eyes of a human. The eye itself supports evolution. Also, just as a side note: Humans have created working eyes, and even simpler machines that we don't know about use simple eyes, probably comparable to a simpler version of ours. Every used a calculator? Of course you have, everyone has. Well, ever used a solar powered one? Yeah, you see that calculator has a simple panel on it that sees when there's sunlight, then absorbs it and powers the calculator. If the panel couldn't detect the sunlight, it couldn't absorb it and the calculator would go *blink*, and shut off. Ever seen a video camera? The TV is a perfect example of how easy it is to make something similar to an eye. The camera takes in the images, usually at a slow rate of about 30 to 40 frames a second, as in, it's takes about 30 or 40 pictures a second, and just cycling through them continuously to create a flowing picture called video. Our eyes work similarly, usually at far faster speeds, way more then 40 frames a second, way more then 100 frames a second. The camera then transfers the video to the Tv and makes an output, so that the people watching can see the image and go "Yay! Sanjaya got voted off!" or whatever they would say depending on what they're watching. Our eyes do this to, it takes the 4309257347 frames a second or whatever and gives them to the brain, the brain takes the images and our conciousness interprets these as vision, or complicated video. This whole system is so simple, no? If humans could set it up, then why couldn't evolution? You may say something along the lines of "Well humans are smart!", yes we are. We were able to make a TV after only about 500 years of actually technological development. Yeah, doesn't seem so quick anymore does it? Well, evolution has been taking place since water came ot the planet Earth, which means, evolution has had the time of about 3.5 billion or so years to create an eye, wether it be the eye of a flatworm or the eye of a human. Humans only took 500 years. Evolution is slow, it's not a genius, but it's an amazing process tat if you give it enough time can turn out amazing results. We smart humans came from this amazing process. Sure, humans can create a human eye, but the brain itself is an amazing mystery. One that was created after millions of years of adaptation and changes in stimulus from our environment. Evolution has not blessed us, we were lucky enough to get the right conditions to get the complicated brains and eyes we have today. After hundrds of thousands of years of trial and error, evolution has acutally created something that can look at itself and the environment around it, and recreate it 500 times faster. It's not an amazing concept to grasp. I'm feelings generous tonight, so go ahead and believe what you want, but I'm gonna go with the plausible "It took a long ****in time" anser rather then the "So this dude was all 'Let there be eyes!' and the amazingly complicated ones we have today appeared" answer.

[White_Rook]

I say religion is more believable because I have seen people healed and I have seen other miraculous things.
I, myself, have been healed.
I have seen someone walk who shouldn't be able to.

I found a mysitcal keyblade and have since been using it to fight Heartless. I too also heal, using Curaga.

[Alice]

I found a mysitcal keyblade and have since been using it to fight Heartless. I too also heal, using Curaga.

Oh, lawd. I'm sorry about this being totally oblivious to the whole concept of "Intelligent Discussion", but I lol'd.

[White_Rook]

Oh, lawd. I'm sorry about this being totally oblivious to the whole concept of "Intelligent Discussion", but I lol'd.

As long as we're offtopic, I'm making it a point not to click on your sig/movie again.

[Alice]

As long as we're offtopic, I'm making it a point not to click on your sig/movie again.
Oh, but it's sOooOoOooOo addicting, don't you think? Well, that's what pretty much all of danbooru, shrinemaiden IRC, and 4chan thought.

I'm going to have another one in my sig similar to it next month. Yes, just as seizure inducing.

[Blademaster Mai'kel]

Let me ask a question of you fools:
What is life without a little mystery?
I mean, what's the point of knowing everything? That's what science is about, right? So why can't people have religion? Stop criticizing other people's beliefs and examine your own. Human perception is flawed, so how is science truth? Religion makes life interesting. Science does not.
I believe some of the things the Bible says (I am Catholic), and I'm not saying science is totally wrong, but please, STOP ridiculing the beliefs of other. Some of these posts sicken me, as do their authors. How would you feel if someone *******ized your faith? :confused:
I'm sorry if I've seriously offended anyone, I have a tendency to act superior toward others.

[Alice]

Let me ask a question of you fools:
What is life without a little mystery?
I mean, what's the point of knowing everything? That's what science is about, right? So why can't people have religion? Stop criticizing other people's beliefs and examine your own. Human perception is flawed, so how is science truth? Religion makes life interesting. Science does not.
I believe some of the things the Bible says (I am Catholic), and I'm not saying science is totally wrong, but please, STOP ridiculing the beliefs of other. Some of these posts sicken me, as do their authors. How would you feel if someone *******ized your faith? :confused:
I'm sorry if I've seriously offended anyone, I have a tendency to act superior toward others.

The posters here aren't *******izing religions. The users who are making arguments against faith supported ideas are simply highlighting the flaws they present, not intentionally criticizing them for what they are. Similar to what you are doing with this.

Wow, sorry I like living life realistically, not in an illusion that I've molded myself into.

Heh, pompous much?

[Kiryu]

Let me ask a question of you fools:
What is life without a little mystery?
I mean, what's the point of knowing everything? That's what science is about, right? So why can't people have religion? Stop criticizing other people's beliefs and examine your own. Human perception is flawed, so how is science truth? Religion makes life interesting. Science does not.
I believe some of the things the Bible says (I am Catholic), and I'm not saying science is totally wrong, but please, STOP ridiculing the beliefs of other. Some of these posts sicken me, as do their authors. How would you feel if someone *******ized your faith? :confused:
I'm sorry if I've seriously offended anyone, I have a tendency to act superior toward others.

I agree that life needs a little mystery. I believe people people should have faith what ever you choose to place it in, whether it be in science or religion. To me the idea of a structured belief system (is for me) wrong. I just don't like the idea of people telling me of what I should place my faith in, all that should really matter is that I have faith in something.

[Kingdom Glory]

I've seen nothing new from you. Always the tired sayings of 'I have seen people healed with a priest who touched them.' You say 'I have seen___' and expect that to be solid evidence of the existence of religion?

Not everyone has seen the 'miracles' you have seen and thusly your observations are forfeit. Not everyone can believe so blindly the beliefs that you hold so dear to your heart.

Same as I cannot believe that some all knowing being in the heavens created all life from one thought in his all powerful mind. I cannot believe that he created Man from the dust of the Earth and Woman from Man's rib. To me these are just stories as say Sleeping Beauty is just a story.

What I can hold close to my heart is the theory of evolution because it eases my mind. Something that I can see in other words. I can look at our jaw and see the similarities in it to the jaw of a Neanderthal or those of Homo Ergastor.

To see the bones of these hominids laid out in museums inspires perhaps a spark of familiarity. Perhaps the same as seeing old family photographs your grandparents have.

I'm going to ask you this:
How do you know evolution is real? I mean, you haven't seen the things they have, have you?

Go here:
http://nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html
http://www.cstnews.com/Code/FaithEvl.html
and here.

[Cin]

No transitional fossils? Ha! That whole thing made me laugh! XD

Of course there aren't! You wanna know why!? We have barely found any fossils! At all! In the course of human history, we have found a dismill few amount of fossils. We're lucky we've found any. After so many millions of years, most bones have disolved, rotted, or better yet, melted. The ones that we do find are ones that are so well preserved, because they were lucky enough to have the proper conditions for such preversation.

Really, iPraise. Give it up man. You aren't going to convert anyone or prove anyone wrong. It's impossible for you to prove us wrong just as it is impossible for us to prove you wrong. It's just...you know...we have more evidence. All you have is stuff that is attempting, (and failing mind you), to disprove our evidence. I have yet to see any real evidence from you, or the other people who support you in this debate.

[Laurence_Fox]

I'm going to ask you this:
How do you know evolution is real? I mean, you haven't seen the things they have, have you?

Go here:
http://nwcreation.net/evolutionfraud.html
http://www.cstnews.com/Code/FaithEvl.html
and here.

And you present to me websites from the internet? Shame on you.

As Cin has so wonderfully put it, we are lucky to have what fossils we have considering the history of the earth in the amount of time the individual died and when we found them. Eruptions, earthquakes, continental drift, ice ages, etc.

And yes some of the fossils we have found such as the Pitdown man and the Nebraska Man have been false but that is because we learned that they were false. Same as we learn who our ancestors were.

And what you put your faith in is your business. Just don't try to convert anyone. You're rather failing.

[White_Rook]

Human perception is flawed

There's truth in that, but it still doesn't mean we can't be certain of what's around us.

[RavenSetFree]

I say religion is more believable because I have seen people healed and I have seen other miraculous things.
I, myself, have been healed.
I have seen someone walk who shouldn't be able to.


And last night I saw a pretty pink Unicorn outside my window. 8D

Really man... just because you see something doesnt mean it happened or that God did it. In my eyes, most of these "miracles of god" are seen by crackheads or people seeking attention.

By the way, Cin, I <3 you. You are one of the few people in this thread who I agree 100% with.

[Zandyne]

*I'm probably being rhetorical*

Evolution is indeed a theory, but it has been proven to be true in many aspects. The fact that genetics and gradual change from genetic combinations have been proven true, that pretty much seals up evolution as a sound concept.

As for the religion half, the whole concept of it is actually pretty messed up to begin with. But to stay on topic, religion's evidence against evolution is poor at best. Many times the people who try to defend religion say "but the BIBLE says so", yes and the bible also was written by PEOPLE. Now here's a lovely loophole many biblethumpers leave out, can't people LIE and CREATE FABRICATIONS? Just because the bible is old doesn't make it completely honest. I wouldn't be surprised if the bible was just a fictional to tempt people with the idea of hope. And if any of you naysayers say, "Oh but it mentions this place/person/event" Well gee, I think the people back then could also BORROW ideas/names/locations.

[SquishyZ3ro]

I doubt any of you are biologists or geologists. I doubt any of you have personally studied a fossil and identified it as some ancient creature or have studied genetics to find a link between us and some other species. You all keep saying that religious people are just using the bible to base their beliefs on, that they've never personally experienced God, but you yourselves have never personally proven any of the things you believe to be true. All it is is a belief. Just because a scientist says he proved it doesn't mean it's proven.

Fact is, there is no evidence that is concrete or 100%. Hell, most of the evidence COULD be completely fake, some coverup or conspiracy. Possibilities are endless in this world and nothing is 100%. However, some people choose to believe as such, and that's fine. It doesn't matter if it's belief in religion or science, they've all got the same things in common with eachother. Honestly, I don't see why you guys are insulting eachother's beliefs. This is a debate, not church gathering and not a science function. Stop insulting eachother and stop saying the other people are completely wrong and there's no way it's true. Just stop, seriously.

[8730]

I doubt any of you are biologists or geologists. I doubt any of you have personally studied a fossil and identified it as some ancient creature or have studied genetics to find a link between us and some other species. You all keep saying that religious people are just using the bible to base their beliefs on, that they've never personally experienced God, but you yourselves have never personally proven any of the things you believe to be true. All it is is a belief. Just because a scientist says he proved it doesn't mean it's proven.

Fact is, there is no evidence that is concrete or 100%. Hell, most of the evidence COULD be completely fake, some coverup or conspiracy. Possibilities are endless in this world and nothing is 100%. However, some people choose to believe as such, and that's fine. It doesn't matter if it's belief in religion or science, they've all got the same things in common with eachother. Honestly, I don't see why you guys are insulting eachother's beliefs. This is a debate, not church gathering and not a science function. Stop insulting eachother and stop saying the other people are completely wrong and there's no way it's true. Just stop, seriously.

i completely agree, this is never going to be resovled so insulting others just because you think you are right isnt going to help. i personally believe in evolution, but i dont care what anyone else thinks, that is my opnion if someone else thinks something else as long as it doesnt affect me (ie they dont try to force their opinion on me) im fine with it.

with an issue as 'big' as this theres no point getting so worked up about it cos theres is next to no chance that either will be proved without a doubt in our lifetimes. [/rant]

[Kingdom Glory]

Just throwing this out thee randomly but, did you guys know that scientists try hard to disprove God and fail at it?
A lot of the times, they prove there IS a God.

[Kiryu]

Just throwing this out thee randomly but, did you guys know that scientists try hard to disprove God and fail at it?
A lot of the times, they prove there IS a God.

Not be rude or anything, but how so?

[Kingdom Glory]

When they have tried in the past to prove there is no God, they end up proving there is but keep it under their hoods.

[Alice]

When they have tried in the past to prove there is no God, they end up proving there is but keep it under their hoods.

Um, I think he wanted an example. Not an unsupported statement.

[Zandyne]

I doubt any of you are biologists or geologists. I doubt any of you have personally studied a fossil and identified it as some ancient creature or have studied genetics to find a link between us and some other species. You all keep saying that religious people are just using the bible to base their beliefs on, that they've never personally experienced God, but you yourselves have never personally proven any of the things you believe to be true. All it is is a belief. Just because a scientist says he proved it doesn't mean it's proven.

Fact is, there is no evidence that is concrete or 100%. Hell, most of the evidence COULD be completely fake, some coverup or conspiracy. Possibilities are endless in this world and nothing is 100%. However, some people choose to believe as such, and that's fine. It doesn't matter if it's belief in religion or science, they've all got the same things in common with eachother. Honestly, I don't see why you guys are insulting eachother's beliefs. This is a debate, not church gathering and not a science function. Stop insulting eachother and stop saying the other people are completely wrong and there's no way it's true. Just stop, seriously.

You don't have to be a geologist, biologist or any other scientific profession to notice that even though "religion" encourages "good behavior" it always promises the same exchange of things, "salvation" for siding with some convient invisible entity. In fact, most religious texts are actually just anthologies of stories with morals. Our childhood stories also have morals in them and sometimes the twist of something that isn't based in reality, but we don't go preaching the word of Little Red Riding Hood, no, religious people talk about how Jonah got out of the whale.

As for the "scientist says it is proven", are you trying to say that scientists who use genetics to alter crops are actually just using the word of God? Are you saying that FARMERS (or even people who like to grow things for fun) who use this same method of selective breeding, are all in on this genetic conspiracy? How about when you study physics and use the formulas that a "scientist" discovered to find out that indeed, the rocket did land where it was supposed to in accordance to what you already proved on paper? Or is that just a bunch of lucky conincidences?

I doubt anyone has undeniably "heard the voice of God" either. Also how do you "experience God"? Are you told by someone else or do you refer to a "religious text" to know.

example: Virtuous people are not automatically people who have been touched by God. People who recover from illness are not automatically "touched by God." Truly evil people still recover from illness, and some of the same abomidable people use the basis of religion to justify their sick causes. The most disturbing part of all this? There are hoardes of people who believe them.

The tricky thing about zealous faith is that those who put their faith in things (the really strongly opinionate ones, aka the loudest ones) claim some of the most outlandish things and downright crazy things. This isn't to say that every single religious person is crazy or that its not ok to believe in something.

The reason that makes science more believable in that is it not a conspiracy theory is that people from all walks of life can OBTAIN the SAME QUANTIFED answer through their RESEARCH. Now people who loyally follow a belief system, the more they believe in a certain entitiy, the most analogous they become to each other in terms of idealogies.

And although I cannot speak for ALL of the posts here, it is not an "insult" in a debate if the fact is true. Also, this is a debate, people don't just shake hands and make good friends without tearing into each other's throats first.

When they have tried in the past to prove there is no God, they end up proving there is but keep it under their hoods.

Not to sound sarcastic, but how did they prove this, did they find where God is situated while looking at various nebuli?

Please give a specific example that is not just an "I think" sentence.

[Catch the Rain]

Erm excuse me for a moment! Now I agree that debates are meant to be just that! Debates aren't meant to be all friendly and nice! However You cannot tell someone their idea is stupid because there is no evidence! You are aware right that until that apple dropped there was (figuritively speaking) no such thing as gravity. Scientists used to believe the sun went around the earth and that the earth itself was flat!

I follow the theory of evolution, however I also accept the fact that science is not neccessarily written fact! So there isn't as much eveidence to support God and religion? Well thats good and all but remember that science is also "evolving" new ideas are thought up and old ones are dismissed!


Scientific evidence for evlution is quite impressive, but that doesn't make someones religious belief any less valid!

I'm not saying this to p*** you off or anything but I think you need to liten to the point you try to make! If you say that people shouldn't have their religious belief becasue it's all rubbish or whatever then how can you expect them to take what you say as gospel?

[Xenor]

did the creater of this thread in my science class? cause we just learned about this in my science class

personally i perfer evolution because it is a fact though.......
srry religious people

[White_Rook]

Science is just an inference to the best possible explanation that we able able to conclude. Yes there is an avalanche of evidence in favour of Evolution, but who knows. What I do know is that I'll be long gone before this debate ever reaches a climax. I've always managed to find myself in one of these discussions every time I get onto a forum, and I just grow more apathetic either way. It would be nice to finally discover whether or not I come from a long web of interconnected living organisms that changed over millions of years or if I was the product of the procreation of idiot man and woman that were kicked out of paradise. Hell, I could care less if there was a God but if there in fact was one that created the bare mininum of life only to have it evolve into something more complex I wouldn't mind that. But in the end I'm not going to find out.

[Catch the Rain]

Science is just an inference to the best possible explanation that we able able to conclude. Yes there is an avalanche of evidence in favour of Evolution, but who knows. What I do know is that I'll be long gone before this debate ever reaches a climax. I've always managed to find myself in one of these discussions every time I get onto a forum, and I just grow more apathetic either way. It would be nice to finally discover whether or not I come from a long web of interconnected living organisms that changed over millions of years or if I was the product of the procreation of idiot man and woman that were kicked out of paradise. Hell, I could care less if there was a God but if there in fact was one that created the bare mininum of life only to have it evolve into something more complex I wouldn't mind that. But in the end I'm not going to find out.

That is all so true!

But I find it a little sad that we can never fully know, there is so much about the world and who we are that I don't understand and it kills me that I'll never find the answers, people have gone to war in search of the truth but in the end no-one wins, the fight just moves into a new generation. Science and Religion, religion and science wouldn't it be amusing if neither existed and that there was something completely and utterly different!

[SquishyZ3ro]

I love how people can take my posts however they want to see it, not how it was so blatantly meant. O.o I never said people experienced God, buddeh. And I never said scientists received their knowledge from God. I don't even know where you got that from... And yes, it is completely possible that EVERYTHING we are told to be true is a conspiracy. Perhaps genetically engineering crops to grow is false, perhaps the crops just grew that way themselves and scientists took credit for it. It's all entirely possible. To say that it isn't is ignorance, to put a limit on the universe is also ignorant. I believe in God and I believe in creation, but I also know that it's possible I'm wrong. Do I think I am? Not in the least. But I leave it open as a possibility. You should try it sometime, y'know, having an open mind? It does wonders for the soul. Or shall I say conscience for those of you who don't believe in the soul.

Also, in debates it is proper etiquette to shake hands and to be open to the other person's belief. Use of words like "stupid" and "idiot" will often get you kicked from a debate.

[White_Rook]

Also, in debates it is proper etiquette to shake hands and to be open to the other person's belief. Use of words like "stupid" and "idiot" will often get you kicked from a debate.

Objectivity is the way to go. Here, here.

[Kingdom Glory]

did the creater of this thread in my science class? cause we just learned about this in my science class

personally i perfer evolution because it is a fact though.......
srry religious people
Evolution is NOT a fact...it's a theory.

[Zandyne]

I doubt any of you are biologists or geologists. I doubt any of you have personally studied a fossil and identified it as some ancient creature or have studied genetics to find a link between us and some other species. You all keep saying that religious people are just using the bible to base their beliefs on, that they've never personally experienced God, but you yourselves have never personally proven any of the things you believe to be true. All it is is a belief. Just because a scientist says he proved it doesn't mean it's proven.

Fact is, there is no evidence that is concrete or 100%. Hell, most of the evidence COULD be completely fake, some coverup or conspiracy. Possibilities are endless in this world and nothing is 100%. However, some people choose to believe as such, and that's fine. It doesn't matter if it's belief in religion or science, they've all got the same things in common with eachother. Honestly, I don't see why you guys are insulting eachother's beliefs. This is a debate, not church gathering and not a science function. Stop insulting eachother and stop saying the other people are completely wrong and there's no way it's true. Just stop, seriously.

(Small snippet from Zandyne's previous post) The reason that makes science more believable in that is it not a conspiracy theory is that people from all walks of life can OBTAIN the SAME QUANTIFED answer through their RESEARCH.

I love how people can take my posts however they want to see it, not how it was so blatantly meant. O.o I never said people experienced God, buddeh.And I never said scientists received their knowledge from God. I don't even know where you got that from... And yes, it is completely possible that EVERYTHING we are told to be true is a conspiracy. Perhaps genetically engineering crops to grow is false, perhaps the crops just grew that way themselves and scientists took credit for it. It's all entirely possible. To say that it isn't is ignorance, to put a limit on the universe is also ignorant. I believe in God and I believe in creation, but I also know that it's possible I'm wrong. Do I think I am? Not in the least. But I leave it open as a possibility. You should try it sometime, y'know, having an open mind? It does wonders for the soul. Or shall I say conscience for those of you who don't believe in the soul.

Also, in debates it is proper etiquette to shake hands and to be open to the other person's belief. Use of words like "stupid" and "idiot" will often get you kicked from a debate.

I will be sure to keep all of your advice in mind then. My sincerest apologies if you interpreted my text as being closed minded when I was speaking my point of view.

In regards to the "word of God" is used by scientists, that was poor phrasing on my part. What I meant to get across was, if it is not scientifically done, does this automatically mean it was an act of God?

As for the possibilities, yes many things are completely possible in many ways...but keep in mind that "possibility" can be eliminated when there is enough solid proof. (Crude Example: Are you going to drop an egg off a building to see if it will survive? There is a possibility that it will crack or that it will remain unharmed, but one possibility is more likely to happen. etc.) There obviously isn't enough pro-evolution evidence if it cannot convince people- but the important part is, will you accept it when it is put forth? In terms of being proven, evolution is a theory closer to being proven objectively then the theory of creationism.

It should also be noted that anytime that any religiously recorded event is supposed to be proven, scientific methods are used. (ie: they are conducting genetic research to supposedly find "Adam" and "Eve", yet when this same genetic method is applied to other searches, it is disregarded) I find it slightly ironic and a bit hypocritical, but that's probably a tangent....

[8730]

is it just me or are people forgetting an important fact - religion and science are NOT mutually exclusive. there are plenty of religious scientists. religion and science are not at war, they are just two different ways in the pursuit of truth in our existence.

science is not out to disprove God, not to any stretch of the imagination. scientists use reason, observation and experimentation to explain the world around them, and if this makes the idea of God seem weaker then so be it. the truth can hurt but its still the truth, although not all science is completely proven there is still evidence to support it. religion does the same thing except basically takes a different path to reach the same end.

i hate when people generalise, on both sides of the argument:mad:

[Zandyne]

is it just me or are people forgetting an important fact - religion and science are NOT mutually exclusive. there are plenty of religious scientists. religion and science are not at war, they are just two different ways in the pursuit of truth in our existence.

science is not out to disprove God, not to any stretch of the imagination. scientists use reason, observation and experimentation to explain the world around them, and if this makes the idea of God seem weaker then so be it. the truth can hurt but its still the truth, although not all science is completely proven there is still evidence to support it. religion does the same thing except basically takes a different path to reach the same end.

i hate when people generalise, on both sides of the argument:mad:

(I have no idea if it was directed at me so...)

Sometimes on an arguement as "grand scale" as this, some generalizations must be made (if it was done on a case-by-case on such an informal debate such as this, we would be here until we all had agreeably died at some point). It's wonderful that some people can take science and religion as equals and find some sort of balance between the two, but there are far fewer examples in comparision to those who take a 'side'. Unfortunately, most of the debates covered by these two sides are done by the most....I suppose passionate would be the right word, to speak their minds. So it gives others the impression that yes, they are at war.

However, not to be taking any shots at any scientist's (who also have religion) credibility, but if their belief obsures their ablity to look at the situation objectively, then they are negecting the reasoning aspect of science. This really shouldn't need to be pointed out, but when that happens there obviously is a problem.

The main conflict from my perspective is that some people don't like the idea of God being any less then 'he' is perceived now. And as they say, when you see you're about to 'lose' something, you tend to hold onto it even tighter.

[SquishyZ3ro]

How can anyone lose their belief in God due to science? If they do, they weren't really followers of God to begin with. Just because someone tells me they can prove there is no God doesn't mean I'm going to believe it. Frankly, it doesn't matter how much proof you have against religion, I'll never believe there is no God. But that's getting more into personal opinion and less into debate of ideals. Anyway...

I agree that science and religion often intermix, but at the same time they are fighting furiously against eachother. Scientists often claim to have found the bones of Jesus Christ simply because they feel it will finally prove that he was not some savior, but I hardly like to rely on evidence that has aged for a couple thousand years, at least. Besides, how can they prove it was Jesus Christ? I don't think he ever gave blood or put a cotton swab in his mouth for saliva. But again, I'm getting on a tangent.

I don't know if scientists are right or wrong, none of us do.. Well, okay, I lied, many of us know in ourselves that scientists are right just like many of us know in ourselves that God is real, but there will never be 100% of proof in any directin, or at least I don't thnk say. Yes, you can say that "proving" something automatically means that scientists were right, that because an apple falls to the earth it means there is gravity, but it's not 100%. Of course, I always like to leave myself open to -any- possiblity, on the off-chance there are forces out there working against us and our beliefs.

And look, I'm not saying ALL of science is wrong. I believe in gravity and I believe that they are at least close enough to knowing what it does. But some parts of science I simply cannot believe, just as you simply cannot believe in religion (I'm not aiming this at anyone in specific, just those of you who don't believe in religion). Either way, I don't think the whole evolution vs. religion debate can ever be won. Religious people receive proof of their faith through death, and scientists never receive completely 100% factual evidence of their claims.

[Zandyne]

How can anyone lose their belief in God due to science? If they do, they weren't really followers of God to begin with. Just because someone tells me they can prove there is no God doesn't mean I'm going to believe it. Frankly, it doesn't matter how much proof you have against religion, I'll never believe there is no God. But that's getting more into personal opinion and less into debate of ideals. Anyway...

Somewhat irrelevant to the debate: Depends on what faction of faith. Personally I believe that there was an origin, aka a "creator" who was indeed guiding, but mortal and not omnipotent. You're perfectly within your rights to hold your beliefs just as I am. We can try to share our views, but we shouldn't force them on others.

I agree that science and religion often intermix, but at the same time they are fighting furiously against eachother. Scientists often claim to have found the bones of Jesus Christ simply because they feel it will finally prove that he was not some savior, but I hardly like to rely on evidence that has aged for a couple thousand years, at least. Besides, how can they prove it was Jesus Christ? I don't think he ever gave blood or put a cotton swab in his mouth for saliva. But again, I'm getting on a tangent.

To answer the tangent: There are almost always two sides to that sort of usage of science (or really any other sort of knowledge or subject to be opinionated on). I have yet to have seen the "proven not to be Jesus Christ" one, so I can't comment on that. However the "Adam and Eve" one, I recall that they are conducting genetic studies where they are looking for the mitochodratic code common in all people (they are collecting various samples from as many people to find this genetic link).

I don't know if scientists are right or wrong, none of us do.. Well, okay, I lied, many of us know in ourselves that scientists are right just like many of us know in ourselves that God is real, but there will never be 100% of proof in any directin, or at least I don't thnk say. Yes, you can say that "proving" something automatically means that scientists were right, that because an apple falls to the earth it means there is gravity, but it's not 100%. Of course, I always like to leave myself open to -any- possiblity, on the off-chance there are forces out there working against us and our beliefs.

Response to the gravity-esque example: Well up until they find that possbility that turns the tables irrevocably, it will probably at best, remain at 99% "correct" for the time being.

And look, I'm not saying ALL of science is wrong. I believe in gravity and I believe that they are at least close enough to knowing what it does. But some parts of science I simply cannot believe, just as you simply cannot believe in religion (I'm not aiming this at anyone in specific, just those of you who don't believe in religion). Either way, I don't think the whole evolution vs. religion debate can ever be won. Religious people receive proof of their faith through death, and scientists never receive completely 100% factual evidence of their claims.

No debate is ever, truly, completely won. There will always be some person or group out there that exists otherwise. Unfortunately the "truth" of this debate (evolution vs religion) is one that is silent to its own debators and can only be hopefully touched on in the near future.

As for the last line, you might want to rephrase the 100% factual evidence of just "scientists"; it is 100% factual that you need oxygen to live ("dumb fact" but this is a 'just cause' example).

Anyway....from the looks of things, I think this debate is once more winding down to the typical draw that this debate always seems to simmer down to. "No gains no losses, temporary truce/recess until the next debate."

[SquishyZ3ro]

The part about disproving Jesus Christ's link to God was either on the history channel or discovery channel, I don't remember which. But it was an entire hour of them talking about how they found the bones, then proceeded to explain why this disproved christianity. It sounded more like a load of gappa, but that's just me.


And for the record, maybe we don't need oxygen to live. Maybe there's a substance that we have yet to uncover. xD Okay, now I'm just bein dumb. ;P

I agree that this debate is pretty much wrapped up, least on here... Everything's already been said, or so it seems. >.>

[Zandyne]

That sounds like a load of bull to me too. -Did they have the ghost of Mary or Joseph to verify via satellite? 8O

Hmm yes, I think this debate is pretty much covered (well the coherent sides of it anyway)....

It was enjoyable to have a philisophical discussion with you. *virtual hand shake* :]

[Kingdom Glory]

Ghosts don't even exist...
No one should be able to find Jesus' remains...he went up to heaven.

[Cin]

Well, you can't prove that iPraise, that's the whole reason that them finding the bones is a big debate right now.

[Laurence_Fox]

Ghosts don't even exist...


Oh really? Try telling that to the two little girls reading this over my shoulder. I've been able to see/hear/smell/feel them for years.

But that's another subject entirely.

My point is that just because you think it doesn't exist doesn't mean it isn't there. But it also goes the reverse, being if you believe it exist doesn't mean it is there.

Allow me to explain,

Take me and the paranormal. I believe ghosts/aliens/Mothman etc exist because I've seen ghosts and what I believe to be The Beast of Bay Road {IM me if you'd like the story of that one.} but to another person these may just be stories.

Same with religions in general, believing in it doesn't necessary mean it is or isn't there. God/Bhudda/Shiva/Allah etc may be a supreme and all knowing being to some and just stories to another.

Evolution on the other hand,

I agree that science is not about proving religion false. Science is about learning how the world around us works. Learning how to understand everything from the smallest single celled organism to stars out in space. Me being the Discovery Channel child I am, am able to comprehend Evolution better than I can comprehend the possibility that all life just appeared on the world in six days time.

One last thing,
No one should be able to find Jesus' remains...he went up to heaven.

Can you give me some evidence of how you know this? Without the aid of horribly Christian biased websites this time perhaps?

[Catch the Rain]

Ghosts don't even exist...
.


I think they do! I've seen them! Been able to sense them since I was a little kid, I'm sorry because I like you so i don't want to be mean but that statement just kind of makes you lose, because you don't believe in ghosts and say that they dont exist but when people say God doesnt exist you get majorly defensive.


Anyway sorry all that was a little off context :o

[Cin]

iPraise, I'm sorry but how can you say you believe in god, but not in ghosts? The two subjects are so closely related it's not even funny.

[Kiryu]

Ghosts don't even exist...
No one should be able to find Jesus' remains...he went up to heaven.

Ghost don't exist.....but how can you say that and still believe in Christ. If there can be a christ then there certainly be ghost. This is excluding that that my my paranormal experiances.

[Kingdom Glory]

Can you give me some evidence of how you know this? Without the aid of horribly Christian biased websites this time perhaps?
Can you tell me why it CAN'T be true, first?

[Zandyne]

ORIGINAL CONTEXT
The part about disproving Jesus Christ's link to God was either on the history channel or discovery channel, I don't remember which. But it was an entire hour of them talking about how they found the bones, then proceeded to explain why this disproved christianity. It sounded more like a load of gappa, but that's just me.

And for the record, maybe we don't need oxygen to live. Maybe there's a substance that we have yet to uncover. xD Okay, now I'm just bein dumb. ;P

I agree that this debate is pretty much wrapped up, least on here... Everything's already been said, or so it seems. >.>
That sounds like a load of bull to me too. -Did they have the ghost of Mary or Joseph to verify via satellite? 8O

Hmm yes, I think this debate is pretty much covered (well the coherent sides of it anyway)....

It was enjoyable to have a philisophical discussion with you. *virtual hand shake* :]
RESPONSE:
Ghosts don't even exist...
No one should be able to find Jesus' remains...he went up to heaven.

Ok, listen up iPraise, COOL OFF. If you can't see the sarcasm in my line, then please, SEE IT NOW. I wasn't even arguing against Squishy, I was agreeing with him in a mutually understood way. (You an even SEE the smilie emoticons!)

But no, you took the liberty of interpreting it with your overactive standpoint; I respect that you have different views, but you can not, I repeat, can not distort my words to start up another UNRELATED DEBATE. That is utterly insulting to the concept of debate.

Now what I'm about to say will most likely come off as an insult, but it is NOT. I assure you, this is an assessment from what I have seen so far from your contributions to this debate.

iPraise, you are like so many of the people who are so deeply rooted to your own side that you are BLINDED by your conviction to really SEE anything else. You are not conducting yourself in a manner fit for debate, you are acting as if you are one playing the part of the converter (you can do that in your free time, but the arena of debate is NOT where your 'two-lined sermons' are supposed to take place). You are using solely opinionated WORDS in that you are not even bothering to examine the other side's evidence whatseoever. The fact you are not even seeing the very CONTEXT of what some of the lines are said in is PROOF of this. You are taking every single line very much as what you THINK they sound like, regardless of the CONNOTATIONS.

Anyway, iPraise and all the other people trying to counterargue/agree with iPraise's ridiculously off-topic arguement of "ghosts don't exist". Please return to your REAL topic of debate, "EVOLUTION vs RELIGION" or move your "Ghosts existence, YAY vs NAY" to another thread if you haven't done so already!

(PS iPraise, if you are going to discuss the Ghost topic in another thread, don't forget to mention the Holy Ghost/Spirit, I heard he/it was important, but I could be wrong in that the Holy Triad is only the Holy Father and the Holy Son.)

[Catch the Rain]

I fully agree! Normally your posts irritate me a little (no offence :D)but I actually agree with everything you just said, only thing is a little too agressive! sorry! lol Im a peace person

[Kingdom Glory]

ORIGINAL CONTEXT


RESPONSE:


Ok, listen up iPraise, COOL OFF. If you can't see the sarcasm in my line, then please, SEE IT NOW. I wasn't even arguing against Squishy, I was agreeing with him in a mutually understood way. (You an even SEE the smilie emoticons!)

But no, you took the liberty of interpreting it with your overactive standpoint; I respect that you have different views, but you can not, I repeat, can not distort my words to start up another UNRELATED DEBATE. That is utterly insulting to the concept of debate.

Now what I'm about to say will most likely come off as an insult, but it is NOT. I assure you, this is an assessment from what I have seen so far from your contributions to this debate.

iPraise, you are like so many of the people who are so deeply rooted to your own side that you are BLINDED by your conviction to really SEE anything else. You are not conducting yourself in a manner fit for debate, you are acting as if you are one playing the part of the converter (you can do that in your free time, but the arena of debate is NOT where your 'two-lined sermons' are supposed to take place). You are using solely opinionated WORDS in that you are not even bothering to examine the other side's evidence whatseoever. The fact you are not even seeing the very CONTEXT of what some of the lines are said in is PROOF of this. You are taking every single line very much as what you THINK they sound like, regardless of the CONNOTATIONS.

Anyway, iPraise and all the other people trying to counterargue/agree with iPraise's ridiculously off-topic arguement of "ghosts don't exist". Please return to your REAL topic of debate, "EVOLUTION vs RELIGION" or move your "Ghosts existence, YAY vs NAY" to another thread if you haven't done so already!

(PS iPraise, if you are going to discuss the Ghost topic in another thread, don't forget to mention the Holy Ghost/Spirit, I heard he/it was important, but I could be wrong in that the Holy Triad is only the Holy Father and the Holy Son.)
I'm not denying the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is also named the Holy Ghost but it's not a ghost in the sense as it is a dead human/animal being.

[Zandyne]

I'm not denying the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is also named the Holy Ghost but it's not a ghost in the sense as it is a dead human/animal being.

Since you are still on this train of thought, rather then respond, I shall redirect you to a more Topic-appropriate location Ghost Debate Thread (http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?p=303298#post303298).

Thank you for your time.

[Jest]

I once saw an interpretation of how God made earth in seven days according to evolutionary standards.

I believe in both religion and evolution, there's no point in choosing. I believe that it all came down to one source, and that source is God. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Furthermore, to dwell a bit on that...I do believe in God. I'm not sure if he's (if he's a he) a physical or non-physical entity, I just believe there's some sort of higher power. Maybe it's not even what we think it is. But I believe there's something higher than us that would be called the true God, so to speak. And I don't think he has any personality or anything, I just think he's there.

[DogBoyX]

I believe in both religion and evolution, there's no point in choosing. I believe that it all came down to one source, and that source is God. Just my opinion.


thank you! that was what i was going to say.

[White_Rook]

Well that's just Theological Evolution. Most Theologians and many Priests as well are open to such an idea.

[John Clay Rice]

I HAVE read the bible, 4 times in fact. And everytime I do it seems more and more wrong. God doesn't exist, it's s simple fact and a simple concept to grasp. Evolution and random coincidence is all that created us. And the chances of someplace like the Earth being created...well...it had to happen. The universe is so infinitly big, that the chances, although very slim, are still pretty good. And scientists have proved god exists? Give me this "proof". Go ahead...give me everything you've got. I'll disprove it. You can believe what you want, but don't push your religion on me, I'm a stone that cannot be broken when it comes to my views.
Oh come on monkeys evolve into humans? That sounds like a 4 year old storybook and Darwin died a christian saying that he was wrong about that evolution crap.

[Kingdom Glory]

Thanks for trying dude, but they won't listen unless you give cold hard FACTS.
Though, it's good to see people on my side a bit. D:

[Gravity]

Evolution makes sense, but there's still so many gaps that could still proove it wrong. Being catholic, I'm going to have to go and say that I believe what the bible says...and that God created everything that exists on this planet today.

Of course, whoever says they believe in both is simply amazing...because that's the other answer I'd give if I wasn't feeling so square right now.

[Bryan]

To me evolution makes no sense.How did all of a sudden there was a huge explosion? i dont get it.How did we evolve from Monkies? and the human fossils are just fossils of early humans not monkies.I belive in Religion and explain Jesus how did he come back to life?

[libregkd]

What!? Humanity are evolving!? Religion presses B.

[John Clay Rice]

Thanks for trying dude, but they won't listen unless you give cold hard FACTS.
Though, it's good to see people on my side a bit. D:
You're talking to me right? And I'm glad to be on your christian side. God bless us all. Even those who don't believe in him and sins.

[Catch the Rain]

You're talking to me right? And I'm glad to be on your christian side. God bless us all. Even those who don't believe in him and sins.

You don't need to believe in God to have a concept of sins and wrong doing, thats like implying that all non religious people have no morals! But that is not for this thread ^^



It is my belief that evolution is what occured, I don't like the idea that fossils and other remains which pre-date the religious creation time were put there as a test. True the course that I am doing makes me a little biased but then I guess all the beliefs in this debate are biased in some way whether through religion or just personal belief.

Reasons why I believe the evolution theory:

1) the fossils and other remains that indicate a changing and adapting race.

2) Evidence for evolution in other species (not just humans) that can be seen for example in Giraffes and their fossilised remains, horses are a very clear example too showing a clear adaptation over a long period of time.

3) Much of the theory behind evolution has its basis in evidence that goes far beyone the time frame given by religion.


I am not saying that I dis-believe in God or religion, maybe a higher power set evolution in process, who knows? But I do not think that any race or species was just created as it is ^^ IMO

[Mirai]

To me evolution makes no sense.[1]How did all of a sudden there was a huge explosion? i dont get it.[[2]]How did we evolve from Monkies? [3]and the human fossils are just fossils of early humans not monkies.[4]I belive in Religion and explain Jesus how did he come back to life?

1: That's the big bang. It has NOTHING to do with evolution. Everything did not EXPLODE then become perfectly aligned. It was a gradual process through gravity. Also, if God exists, why can't "Let there be light"="Let there be the big bang"?

2: We didn't. We evolved from ape-like hominids. Every generation or so there is a mutation in the gene pool. If that mutations helps the animal survive, it will reproduce more often and then those same genes would be pased on.

3: Kind of. More like early hominids. Like the Australopithecus. It looked very much like a chimp, yet always walked on two legs, and was intelligent.

4: Jesus is a rip off from the Egyptian sun god, Horas. Born from a virgin on December 25, addorned by three kings who followed a star in the east, became a teacher at 12, babtized at 30 (in Egyptian religion), performed miracles such as raising the dead and walking on water, had 12 disciples, betrayed by one of his disciples, crucified, ressurected three days later. Sound familiar? Look it up.

[Kingdom Glory]

1: That's the big bang. It has NOTHING to do with evolution. Everything did not EXPLODE then become perfectly aligned. It was a gradual process through gravity. Also, if God exists, why can't "Let there be light"="Let there be the big bang"?
Actually, the Big Bang DID happen, I believe, but it wasn't by two molecules coming together, it was God creating the universe and all in it.

[Mirai]

Actually, the Big Bang DID happen, I believe, but it wasn't by two molecules coming together, it was God creating the universe and all in it.

"Two molecules coming to together?" That's not what the big bang theory states. It states that all matter in the universe was once in one tiny spot. It then expanded, and gradual formed the universe that we know today.

Think of it this way: God created all matter, and it 'sploded. He sat back and watched the universe grow. When humans came around, he gave them the soul, or whatever. That's the most widely Diest theory.

[Kingdom Glory]

But we still didn't evolve from "ape-like-hominoids" or whatevah you called it.

[Mirai]

But we still didn't evolve from "ape-like-hominoids" or whatevah you called it.

Then I will make a simple text version of part of the geological timescale:

Humans
Humans + Neanderthal
Erectus
Ergaster
Habilis
Australopithecus
Early Apes

Tell me why each one is before the other in order of intelligence. Also, the distribution is perfect for concluding that we came from them.

[Kingdom Glory]

Are you saying we walked around going:
"Ook ook ook!"
Then eventually started english?

[Mirai]

Are you saying we walked around going:
"Ook ook ook!"
Then eventually started english?

We're not sure as to when, where, and how language came up. But, that's how science works. We need to find out.

[Roxas is Hot]

I have to stick with Evolution more.

There's more proof, and it JUST MAKES SENSE.

The whole Religion things seems very nice to believe, but I just can't see the whole 'make Earth in 7 days' thing.

[no-reality_allowed]

iPraise I am seriously getting sick of you right now, all you do is challenge somebody's post and attack it without even showing any evidence to prove your reasons. I've noticed that mostly all the people who go against what you say have proven FACTS. You have posted nothing. So if I were you I'd either find some cold hard facts to prove yourself or just shut the **** up.

And me I go for evolution just because it has been proven. We have cold hard facts to explain how we have evolved. We have bones from thousands of years ago that show proof that humans have evolved.

Religion is just an escape in my opinion. Back then when humans actually were able to comprehend things, they didn't know how to explain things like the sun or fire or other puzzling things. So they came up with gods to answer the questions. Plus their are numerous other gods that were around before Jesus (which seems to be the favorite around here) and it sickens me that people critize other's beliefs but cry like a little ***** when you say something about Jesus not being the only god. Do I believe that he may have been real? Yea. Do I believe that he's a god? No. It's called a magician people, lots of people have done it too. There are many so called gods that follow the same characteristics. So why can't they all be real. Why can only Jesus be the only god when people worshiped hundreds of others before him.

And iPraise, it took thousands of years for us to eventually develop the english language. Before we basically communicated with either grunts or drawings, which eventually became writings, and then finally a true spoken language.

[hawki92]

well im going to post my veiws here right quick i go to a christain school and i have read the bible and i have heard from preachers and so on and from what i have seen in science it makes alot of sense my personal belief is cration through evolution i believe something (God) made the matter and started life then the universe slowly developed and humans evolved and all that
basically God made the stuff then big bang blah blah blah earth blah blah blah humans
i beleve in God but not in the religeous(sp?) sense

[no-reality_allowed]

Darwin died a christian saying that he was wrong about that evolution crap.

Most people convert to a religion before they die out of fear of what may happen to them if there is an afterlife. My friend's father was an Athiest and before he died he converted to a religion (forgot which) to hopefully repent and be able to live in some form of heaven out of fear that he was going to the suck part of the afterlife.

Which to me makes you a complete hypocrite and a coward.

[Mirai]

Most people convert to a religion before they die out of fear of what may happen to them if there is an afterlife. My friend's father was an Athiest and before he died he converted to a religion (forgot which) to hopefully repent and be able to live in some form of heaven out of fear that he was going to the suck part of the afterlife.

Which to me makes you a complete hypocrite and a coward.

Actually, the story that Darwin converted is false. Mostly because he WAS a Christian Diest 'till the day he died. Also, here's proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Hope#The_Lady_Hope_story) that the bedside conversion was false.

[White_Rook]

Are you saying we walked around going:
"Ook ook ook!"
Then eventually started english?

There's more complexity behind that. You can't ignore one aspect of evolution in order to ridicule another. Evolution is a gradule process that occurs over millions of years. The ability to produce sound was already present-- apes could/can "ook ook" if you will. The vocal mechanisms simply become more complex to allow great and higher forms of resonation. the jaw line, lips, and tongue also underwent change to accomodate speech. Your rebuttal doesn't take into account all of the subject.

[tasogarehime]

I put more trust in science, and evolution because it has the evidence religion just can't provide.

If anyone want's a good example of evolution look at a dog. Human controlled evolution, but still evolution. We have taken the wolf, and over time with selective breeding have turned it in the Chihuahua, bulldog, and Great Dane.

Definitely my own opinion here but I see organized religion as an outdated system for controlling an uneducated populace in ancient times. It's a bunch of fairy stories the ancient people used to explain what they could not understand, and in many cases used to justify the slaughter of other peoples. Just the same as the mythologies of the Greeks, Egyptians, Norns.

At the same time I think faith is a very important thing, whether it's in a religion or science. People need something to believe in and hold on to, or what's the point?

[JedininjaZC]

I put more trust in science, and evolution because it has the evidence religion just can't provide.

If anyone want's a good example of evolution look at a dog. Human controlled evolution, but still evolution. We have taken the wolf, and over time with selective breeding have turned it in the Chihuahua, bulldog, and Great Dane.

Definitely my own opinion here but I see organized religion as an outdated system for controlling an uneducated populace in ancient times. It's a bunch of fairy stories the ancient people used to explain what they could not understand, and in many cases used to justify the slaughter of other peoples. Just the same as the mythologies of the Greeks, Egyptians, Norns.

At the same time I think faith is a very important thing, whether it's in a religion or science. People need something to believe in and hold on to, or what's the point?
I am tired of every body saying that Christianity has no sience in it.
well FYI heer is a couple of verses that actually say stuff about Atomic Fusion, ocean Currents, Hydrogen Cycle, jet streams, Dinasaurs, and innumberable stars. I show you.

Atomic fusion
II Peter 3:10-10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Ocean currents
Psalm 8:8-8 the birds of the air,
and the fish of the sea,
all that swim the paths of the seas.
Isaiah 43:16-16 This is what the LORD says—
he who made a way through the sea,
a path through the mighty waters,

Hydrogen Cycle
Job 36:27-27 "He draws up the drops of water,
which distill as rain to the streams.
Amos 9:6-he who builds his lofty palace [a] in the heavens
and sets its foundation [b] on the earth,
who calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the LORD is his name.

Jet Stream
Ecclesiastes 1:6,7-The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

Dinosaurs
Job 40-The LORD said to Job:

2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

3 Then Job answered the LORD :

4 "I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.

5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more."

6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 "Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 "Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God's,
and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at every proud man and bring him low,

12 look at every proud man and humble him,
crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15 "Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 His tail [b] sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.

19 He ranks first among the works of God,
yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.

20 The hills bring him their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.

21 Under the lotus plants he lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround him.

23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed;
he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.

24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes, [c]
or trap him and pierce his nose?

Job 42-1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [a] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?

6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.

13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?

14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?

15 His back has [b] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.

24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.

29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is his equal—
a creature without fear.

34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."
Psalm 74:14-14 It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.


Innumbreble stars
Jeremiah 33:22-22 I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'

Enough Proof for you!

[N]

Noah's arc and the great flood.

Chi-ca-chow!


To answer above poster; where is the proof the world was made by rocks crashing into eachother?

Yeah, I agree.

The Earth was made from rocks thing is really weird and confusing.

And, so you'll know, non-religious peoples,
God is not like us, so that's why he created the Universe in seven days.

End of story.

[hawki92]

[COLOR="Purple"]Yeah, I agree.
Atomic fusion
II Peter 3:10-10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.


what does that have to do with atomic fusion?

[JedininjaZC]

what does that have to do with atomic fusion?

Peter 3:11-13
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[a]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

[hawki92]

Peter 3:11-13
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[a]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

that still dosen't say anything at all that makes it seem like an atomic bomb for all we know it could be reffering to a Trebuchet(sp?).

[JedininjaZC]

that still dosen't say anything at all that makes it seem like an atomic bomb for all we know it could be reffering to a Trebuchet(sp?).What is a Trebuchet????

[hawki92]

What is a Trebuchet????

here i dont fell like explaining
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet

[JedininjaZC]

here i dont fell like explaining
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet
Thanks, but what that does a Trebuchet have to do with anything.

[hawki92]

Thanks, but what that does a Trebuchet have to do with anything.

it could be what weapon your verse was refering to, it said rain fire from the heavens a Trebuchet can throw or "rain" down flameing objects it was also around in biblical times and was used in the area around isreal im saying what it mentions is not an atomic bomb but a Trebuchet or another weapon around in his time

[JedininjaZC]

it could be what weapon your verse was refering to, it said rain fire from the heavens a Trebuchet can throw or "rain" down flameing objects it was also around in biblical times and was used in the area around isreal im saying what it mentions is not an atomic bomb but a Trebuchet or another weapon around in his timeSorry I got one part of my reseach Wrong.
What are you going to do sue me? Calm down just joking.

[tasogarehime]

I am tired of every body saying that Christianity has no sience in it.
well FYI heer is a couple of verses that actually say stuff about Atomic Fusion, ocean Currents, Hydrogen Cycle, jet streams, Dinasaurs, and innumberable stars. I show you.

Atomic fusion
II Peter 3:10-10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Ocean currents
Psalm 8:8-8 the birds of the air,
and the fish of the sea,
all that swim the paths of the seas.
Isaiah 43:16-16 This is what the LORD says—
he who made a way through the sea,
a path through the mighty waters,

Hydrogen Cycle
Job 36:27-27 "He draws up the drops of water,
which distill as rain to the streams.
Amos 9:6-he who builds his lofty palace [a] in the heavens
and sets its foundation [b] on the earth,
who calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the LORD is his name.

Jet Stream
Ecclesiastes 1:6,7-The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

Dinosaurs
Job 40-The LORD said to Job:

2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

3 Then Job answered the LORD :

4 "I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.

5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more."

6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 "Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 "Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God's,
and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at every proud man and bring him low,

12 look at every proud man and humble him,
crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15 "Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 His tail [b] sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.

19 He ranks first among the works of God,
yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.

20 The hills bring him their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.

21 Under the lotus plants he lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround him.

23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed;
he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.

24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes, [c]
or trap him and pierce his nose?

Job 42-1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [a] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?

6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.

13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?

14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?

15 His back has [b] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.

24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.

29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is his equal—
a creature without fear.

34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."
Psalm 74:14-14 It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.


Innumbreble stars
Jeremiah 33:22-22 I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'

Enough Proof for you!

It's like looking at the prophecies of Nostodomus, it's all up to interpretation.
Everything there can either be interpreted in another way, or was something that was obvious with out scientific study. Ocean currents, and the jet stream were common knowledge among sea faring people, and people would obviously see there were to many stars to count with out having anyone tell them.
#1 might be talking about a volcano, or any other natural phenomenon that causes fire.
#5 is not talking about dinosaurs at all, it's talking about the leviathan which is about as real as a unicorn. The legends of leviathan may be based on fossils the ancient people might have found just as many other mythological creatures are believed to be, but that is not proof they knew about dinosaurs.

In any case there is no evidence for the world being created in 7 days. Which is what I was talking about. The people for creationisim haven’t even been able to disprove the evidence of evolution.

[White_Rook]

I am tired of every body saying that Christianity has no sience in it.
well FYI heer is a couple of verses that actually say stuff about Atomic Fusion, ocean Currents, Hydrogen Cycle, jet streams, Dinasaurs, and innumberable stars. I show you.

Atomic fusion
II Peter 3:10-10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.

Ocean currents
Psalm 8:8-8 the birds of the air,
and the fish of the sea,
all that swim the paths of the seas.
Isaiah 43:16-16 This is what the LORD says—
he who made a way through the sea,
a path through the mighty waters,

Hydrogen Cycle
Job 36:27-27 "He draws up the drops of water,
which distill as rain to the streams.
Amos 9:6-he who builds his lofty palace [a] in the heavens
and sets its foundation [b] on the earth,
who calls for the waters of the sea
and pours them out over the face of the land—
the LORD is his name.

Jet Stream
Ecclesiastes 1:6,7-The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

Dinosaurs
Job 40-The LORD said to Job:

2 "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!"

3 Then Job answered the LORD :

4 "I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.

5 I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more."

6 Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 "Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 "Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?

9 Do you have an arm like God's,
and can your voice thunder like his?

10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.

11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at every proud man and bring him low,

12 look at every proud man and humble him,
crush the wicked where they stand.

13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.

14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15 "Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 His tail [b] sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.

19 He ranks first among the works of God,
yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.

20 The hills bring him their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.

21 Under the lotus plants he lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.

22 The lotuses conceal him in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround him.

23 When the river rages, he is not alarmed;
he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.

24 Can anyone capture him by the eyes, [c]
or trap him and pierce his nose?

Job 42-1 "Can you pull in the leviathan [a] with a fishhook
or tie down his tongue with a rope?

2 Can you put a cord through his nose
or pierce his jaw with a hook?

3 Will he keep begging you for mercy?
Will he speak to you with gentle words?

4 Will he make an agreement with you
for you to take him as your slave for life?

5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird
or put him on a leash for your girls?

6 Will traders barter for him?
Will they divide him up among the merchants?

7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons
or his head with fishing spears?

8 If you lay a hand on him,
you will remember the struggle and never do it again!

9 Any hope of subduing him is false;
the mere sight of him is overpowering.

10 No one is fierce enough to rouse him.
Who then is able to stand against me?

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

12 "I will not fail to speak of his limbs,
his strength and his graceful form.

13 Who can strip off his outer coat?
Who would approach him with a bridle?

14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth,
ringed about with his fearsome teeth?

15 His back has [b] rows of shields
tightly sealed together;

16 each is so close to the next
that no air can pass between.

17 They are joined fast to one another;
they cling together and cannot be parted.

18 His snorting throws out flashes of light;
his eyes are like the rays of dawn.

19 Firebrands stream from his mouth;
sparks of fire shoot out.

20 Smoke pours from his nostrils
as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.

21 His breath sets coals ablaze,
and flames dart from his mouth.

22 Strength resides in his neck;
dismay goes before him.

23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined;
they are firm and immovable.

24 His chest is hard as rock,
hard as a lower millstone.

25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified;
they retreat before his thrashing.

26 The sword that reaches him has no effect,
nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.

27 Iron he treats like straw
and bronze like rotten wood.

28 Arrows do not make him flee;
slingstones are like chaff to him.

29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw;
he laughs at the rattling of the lance.

30 His undersides are jagged potsherds,
leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.

31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron
and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.

32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake;
one would think the deep had white hair.

33 Nothing on earth is his equal—
a creature without fear.

34 He looks down on all that are haughty;
he is king over all that are proud."
Psalm 74:14-14 It was you who crushed the heads of Leviathan
and gave him as food to the creatures of the desert.


Innumbreble stars
Jeremiah 33:22-22 I will make the descendants of David my servant and the Levites who minister before me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'

Enough Proof for you!

Completely subjective in interpretation. An explosion of the elements implies nothing of atomic fusion (the elements referred to in that verse are the four "natural elements" which in themselves are not actual elements), water being brought up and back down as rain explain the function of percipitation to a bare minimum.

[JedininjaZC]

It's like looking at the prophecies of Nostodomus, it's all up to interpretation.
Everything there can either be interpreted in another way, or was something that was obvious with out scientific study. Ocean currents, and the jet stream were common knowledge among sea faring people, and people would obviously see there were to many stars to count with out having anyone tell them.
#1 might be talking about a volcano, or any other natural phenomenon that causes fire.
#5 is not talking about dinosaurs at all, it's talking about the leviathan which is about as real as a unicorn. The legends of leviathan may be based on fossils the ancient people might have found just as many other mythological creatures are believed to be, but that is not proof they knew about dinosaurs.


In any case there is no evidence for the world being created in 7 days. Which is what I was talking about. The people for creationisim haven’t even been able to disprove the evidence of evolution.
The Bible never says the word dinosuars in it but it does mention dragon like creatures, if you put your head to it, it does sound like dinosaurs. Also what evidence! it s just random ideas, try brining somthing to the table before brining someone ideas down!

[tasogarehime]

The Bible never says the word dinosuars in it but it does mention dragon like creatures, if you put your head to it, it does sound like dinosaurs. Also what evidence! it s just random ideas, try brining somthing to the table before brining someone ideas down!

Dragons, and dragon like creatures are part of every mythology.
The Babylonian goddess Tiamat was a dragon, the Shen-long, Quetzalcoatl, the Hydra, The Midgard serpent, the Basilisk, the Paisa Bird.
All of these are dragons or dragon like creatures, Possibly based on fossils that may have been found. A long time ago people thought diferently than we do today, You have to interprate things from their perspective. There was no study or investigation by ancient people, at best they found something and just made up stories about it. No ancient civilization is talking about dinosaurs when they mention dragons. They are talking about dragons.
The Bible was clearly written by mortal man and not a god of any kind.
If it was the infallible word of God we would not have Genesis contradicting the creation of man.

http://www.txtwriter.com/Backgrounders/Evolution/EVcontents.html

http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/dinobird/story.htm

The early Christian church was all for science and learning, they were the ones who ran the schools, and funded scientific studies. I don't know exactly when they had the massive brain fart that caused them to think science was evil, but I can't help but think if it had never happened Evolution would just be seen as another miracle of god. Why couldn't God, or whatever you want to call it have made evolution?

[JedininjaZC]

Dragons, and dragon like creatures are part of every mythology.
The Babylonian goddess Tiamat was a dragon, the Shen-long, Quetzalcoatl, the Hydra, The Midgard serpent, the Basilisk, the Paisa Bird.
All of these are dragons or dragon like creatures, Possibly based on fossils that may have been found. A long time ago people thought diferently than we do today, You have to interprate things from their perspective. There was no study or investigation by ancient people, at best they found something and just made up stories about it. No ancient civilization is talking about dinosaurs when they mention dragons. They are talking about dragons.
The Bible was clearly written by mortal man and not a god of any kind.
If it was the infallible word of God we would not have Genesis contradicting the creation of man.

http://www.txtwriter.com/Backgrounders/Evolution/EVcontents.html

http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/science/slab/dinobird/story.htm

The early Christian church was all for science and learning, they were the ones who ran the schools, and funded scientific studies. I don't know exactly when they had the massive brain fart that caused them to think science was evil, but I can't help but think if it had never happened Evolution would just be seen as another miracle of god. Why couldn't God, or whatever you want to call it have made evolution?
thanks for brining somthing to the table. The reason why God didn't make us from monkeys is..
Genesis 2:7-7 the LORD God formed the man [a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Also if we did evolve from monkeys why aren't monkeys's still evolving?

[Mirai]

thanks for brining somthing to the table. The reason didn't make us from monkeys is..
Genesis 2:7-7 the LORD God formed the man [a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Also if we did evolve from monkeys why aren't monkeys's still evolving?

If I had a penny for everytime I heard that question...

They are. Just in a different path. For our ancestors, intelligence was the way to go. For theirs, intelliegence wasn't as much of a problem.

[JedininjaZC]

If I had a penny for everytime I heard that question...

They are. Just in a different path. For our ancestors, intelligence was the way to go. For theirs, intelliegence wasn't as much of a problem.I'd also like to say that no REAL missing link has been found, before you start yelling at me here

http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/evolution-and-the-fossil-record.htm

If you don't feel like going to the link here is a paste of the info

1 David M. Raup, "Evolution and the Fossil Record," Science, vol. 213, July 1981, 289. The reality of the "human fossil record" of the past century:

Ramapithecus was widely recognized as a direct ancestor of humans. It is now established that he was merely an extinct type of orangutan.

Piltdown man was hyped as the missing link in publications for over 40 years. He was a fraud based on a human skull cap and an orangutan's jaw.

Nebraska man was a fraud based on a single tooth of a rare type of pig.

Java man was based on sketchy evidence of a femur, skull cap and three teeth found within a wide area over a one year period. It turns out the bones were found in an area of human remains, and now the femur is considered human and the skull cap from a large ape.

Neandertal man was traditionally depicted as a stooped ape-man. It is now accepted that the alleged posture was due to disease and that Neandertal is just a variation of the human kind.

Australopithecus afarensis, or "Lucy," has been considered a missing link for years. However, studies of the inner ear, skulls and bones have shown that she was merely a pygmy chimpanzee that walked a bit more upright than some other apes. She was not on her way to becoming human.

Homo erectus has been found throughout the world. He is smaller than the average human of today, with a proportionately smaller head and brain cavity. However, the brain size is within the range of people today and studies of the middle ear have shown that he was just like current Homo sapiens. Remains are found throughout the world in the same proximity to remains of ordinary humans, suggesting coexistence. Australopithecus africanus and Peking man were presented as ape-men missing links for years, but are now both considered Homo erectus.

Homo habilis is now generally considered to be comprised of pieces of various other types of creatures, such as Australopithecus and Homo erectus, and is not generally viewed as a valid classification.

[Mirai]

I'd also like to say that no REAL missing link has been found, before you start yelling at me here

http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/evolution-and-the-fossil-record.htm

If you don't feel like going to the link here is a paste of the info

1 David M. Raup, "Evolution and the Fossil Record," Science, vol. 213, July 1981, 289. The reality of the "human fossil record" of the past century:

Ramapithecus was widely recognized as a direct ancestor of humans. It is now established that he was merely an extinct type of orangutan.

Piltdown man was hyped as the missing link in publications for over 40 years. He was a fraud based on a human skull cap and an orangutan's jaw.

Nebraska man was a fraud based on a single tooth of a rare type of pig.

Java man was based on sketchy evidence of a femur, skull cap and three teeth found within a wide area over a one year period. It turns out the bones were found in an area of human remains, and now the femur is considered human and the skull cap from a large ape.

Neandertal man was traditionally depicted as a stooped ape-man. It is now accepted that the alleged posture was due to disease and that Neandertal is just a variation of the human kind.

Australopithecus afarensis, or "Lucy," has been considered a missing link for years. However, studies of the inner ear, skulls and bones have shown that she was merely a pygmy chimpanzee that walked a bit more upright than some other apes. She was not on her way to becoming human.

Homo erectus has been found throughout the world. He is smaller than the average human of today, with a proportionately smaller head and brain cavity. However, the brain size is within the range of people today and studies of the middle ear have shown that he was just like current Homo sapiens. Remains are found throughout the world in the same proximity to remains of ordinary humans, suggesting coexistence. Australopithecus africanus and Peking man were presented as ape-men missing links for years, but are now both considered Homo erectus.

Homo habilis is now generally considered to be comprised of pieces of various other types of creatures, such as Australopithecus and Homo erectus, and is not generally viewed as a valid classification.

I know that many of those were hoaxes, such as the Piltdown Man. However, I'll need to see some evidence from somewhere like National Geographic to believe that Lucy is not a human ancestor. I would've heard about something like that.

[JedininjaZC]

I know that many of those were hoaxes, such as the Piltdown Man. However, I'll need to see some evidence from somewhere like National Geographic to believe that Lucy is not a human ancestor. I would've heard about something like that.
Give me one sec.

National doesn't say anthing.

[Mirai]

Give me one sec.

National doesn't say anthing.

Anything else? The link you provided seems very biased, and unfortunately, I won't believe it without proof.

I'll post the link on a Wikipedia discusion article, to see what they think.

[JedininjaZC]

Anything else? The link you provided seems very biased, and unfortunately, I won't believe it without proof.

I'll post the link on a Wikipedia discusion article, to see what they think.

I'm bored I am going to take my bike for a ride.
I'll come back in two hours.
Later!

[tasogarehime]

thanks for brining somthing to the table. The reason why God didn't make us from monkeys is..
Genesis 2:7-7 the LORD God formed the man [a] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

Also if we did evolve from monkeys why aren't monkeys's still evolving?

Genesis 1: 20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 2: 7And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

21And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I refuse to believe a creation story that contradicts it's self. Which one is the real creation?

http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

To answer your question about monkeys, They are still evolving. Everything is still evolving. It's a slow process, especially in mammals and any other complicated organism. None of us will see a monkey evolve into something else in our life times.
They are on a different branch of out genetic family. Just like Neanderthal man which was a species of human that had evolved specialized for the ice age (which is part of the reason why they aren't around anymore.)

[JedininjaZC]

Anything else? The link you provided seems very biased, and unfortunately, I won't believe it without proof.

I'll post the link on a Wikipedia discusion article, to see what they think.
I am back, oh and here is a handfull of links.

http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/fossils_missing.html[/url

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1248079.stm
http://members.aol.com/gjrum/fakefossil.htm
http://www.csm.org.uk/expo3.php?PHPSESSID=e0b9f4806a4c731e5d0ba84ae14364 43

I know that many of those were hoaxes, such as the Piltdown Man. However, I'll need to see some evidence from somewhere like National Geographic to believe that Lucy is not a human ancestor. I would've heard about something like that.

More links for you.
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/ApeMen1.html
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/ApeMen2.html
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/ApeMen3.html
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/Dinos.html
http://www.cryingvoice.com/Evolution/Design1.html

[tasogarehime]

From: http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/Fake_fossils

Creationists -- especially the YEC variety -- have a bit of a problem with the fossil record, which can and does provide good, solid evidence of how various species have evolved in the past. In addition to boldly asserting (without evidence) that we cannot trust the methods by which fossils are dated, creationists also assert that transitional fossils aren't really transitional, and they rarely miss an opportunity to bring up what they consider to be examples of faked fossils. Often, the specimen a creationist claims to be a hoax is actually a case of mistaken identity.

Creationists spend an inordinate amount of effort and print space harping on a handful of fake fossils. While there are indeed examples of hoaxes, mistakes, and deliberate frauds in paleontology (as is true with every scientific field), they are rare and insignificant next to the tremendous body of genuine fossils. The fake fossils are therefore of no relevance to the evo/cre debate, and deserve only to be dismissed as historical oddities. Creationists should pay attention to the indisputably genuine fossils if they wish to mount a challenge to evolution. So why the undue attention to the handful of fakes? It's most likely an attempt to lead their readers to believe that all fossils, and by extension all evidence for evolution, should be suspected for being fake. This is easier than dealing with the real fossils, if a bit lazy. On a more personal level, it implies that scientists are untrustworthy, or are otherwise too deluded by an evolutionary view to avoid obvious mistakes. In other words, it's yet another part of the smear campaign that creationists have endlessly waged against mainstream science since the earliest days of modern creationism. But in every case it was scientists, not creationists, who discovered and corrected the errors. Creationists, meanwhile, have a rather poor track-record in correcting their own mistakes.

That right there has just about everything I could say my self about fake fossils.

http://www.glencoe.com/sec/science/webquest/content/dinobirds.shtml

http://hometown.aol.com/darwinpage/dinobirds.htm

[JedininjaZC]

That right there has just about everything I could say my self about fake fossils.

http://www.glencoe.com/sec/science/webquest/content/dinobirds.shtml

http://hometown.aol.com/darwinpage/dinobirds.htm

is it me or am i making the situation worse?
Also stop being a hater, I don't hate you, if I did would I be trying to convince you?

[tasogarehime]

is it me or am i making the situation worse?
Also stop being a hater, I don't hate you, if I did would I be trying to convince you?

What? No one hates you. This is a debate.

[Zandyne]

This may be a slight tangent but I THINK it is a semi-relevant one.

Evolution supplies a better suggestion as to why we have different genelogical ethnicities. (IE why certain races have certain different physical traits and such.) Whereas creationists merely say "ADAM + EVE = somehow every person the planet currently".

What supports evolution more in my opinion is that the theory says that there was a main continent with the roots of mankind (I have no idea which one in specific or what, but this is merely the geist of the concept) which eventually broke off after they were seperated. The difference of climates/environments caused for the specific traits and seperate cultures to develop and so forth.

The bible (Christianity in this case because that appears to be the most used in this debate) on the other hand only talks specifically about the lands where the bible was written in (which is techinically what is now the middle east).

Also, why was man created out of sand/mud/earth while every other living creature was created via biblical POOF? And even more so, woman out of sand/mud/earth-man's RIB? Logically evolution which is through CELL PRODUCTION (we know cells exist and can have a dramatic impact on "creation", if you deny it please refer to the zygote's development into a fetus), is far more believable then the "crude artisan's" depiction.

Random Side-Note: Didn't God LIE to Adam about the tree of good and evil? He said CERTAIN DEATH (which typcially means you die instantly) if Adam and Eve ate from the tree, but instead they died after a long period of time (supposively, does the Bible even tell us when/how or do they omit it along with how Adam's wives spontaneously existed?) I'm not really an avid reader of the Bible or anything, so it might just be a translation inconsistancy. But if he did, didn't he just break one of his own laws? c_c

[justmeh]

I'm not going to speak for the people who take the Bible completely literally, but for the most part what I've been taught was that for the most part the Bible was all about lessons being taught and a meaning that you should look for behind the actual text.

If I'm not mistaken even the Pope went public with the fact that in all likelihood evolution did exist, and whether or not it did really didn't disprove any of the fundamentals of Christianity. The only thing evolution would really prove wrong is the theory of creationism, which - when you honestly think about it in relation to the scientific discoveries in favour of evolution - seems somewhat retarded(for lack of a better word).

To be completely honest with you Zandyne, the only explanation I can offer you as to why Humans would have required the use of sand/mud/earth because God supposedly willed it so. That's pretty much the only evidence the Bible offers. So with regards to that question, "LULZ ITZ MAGIC!"

As for the lie thing, the fruit of that tree essentially represented the knowledge of right and wrong(if I remember correctly, which I probably don't), and thus what could have been meant by that would be that if you eat this sheeit then your existence, as you know it, will end.

All that being said, I believe in evolution. I'm pretty much an atheist, and I chose to say all that because I was bored.

LULZ K BAI NOW!

[White_Rook]

Also if we did evolve from monkeys why aren't monkeys's still evolving?

I have yet to meet a creationist believer that doesn't choose to be ignorant of selective parts of evolution theory. Evolution is the progressive change in which lesser organism evolve into more complex organisms and takes millions of years to achieve any hint of fruition. Monkeys are evolving, it's just that anything profound won't be witnessed for a real good chunk of time. But whatever, I'm tired of debating with self-proclaimed enlightened people who take a book whose roots originate from mythologies as old as those in ancient Egypt, to be fact.

[Soku]

For me, I go both ways. I go inbetween them. I beleive in Evolutions but I also beleive in God. The big bang theory made since yes, but how did that create us. The starters of time is a mystery ya know. You don't want to go in too deep, it'll hurt your head.

[Near]

I'm not sure about religion or science, but I'm sure I'm not alone. I prefer not to put a lot of thought into it.
I'd honestly rather play KH2.


Okay, I'm not sure if anyone's explained this yet,

"If [blah blah] evolved from [so-and-so] than why isn't [so-and-so] still evolving?"

Do some reasearch people! There's a whole Internet out there! c'mon!

I'll use monkeys and humans as my example. I get this question all the time from my friend.

Over a course of hundreds of THOUSANDS of years, monkeys slowly evolved into chimps, and the chimps evolved to humans.

as in:
Fluffy monkey with tail > slightly less furry monkey with tail> slightly less fluffy monkey with shorter tail > and so on and so forth. And they didn't just turn into diferent monkeys. The baby monkeys were the ones who were different, and then the it went like that for hundreds of thousands of years before humans actually existed.

I'm not sure, but I think the reason why there are still monkeys and not all of them evolved is because maybe only some of the monkeys genes might have changed to allow them to be different. I haven't researched that yet.

Sorry if it sounds like i'm explaining it to a little kid, I didn't mean for it to be like that.

[PAW]

I like CarbuncleGem's laid back attitude but there is something I would like to put first.
Science is technically a type of a relegion just without fearing a God.
The most believable religion is tauhgt in schools meaning Science. (Except for religious schools.)

On subject though, I believe in Evolution more but their is still the possability that there is some type of higher being but is not proven. About Christianity, I bet Jesus was a good guy but over time people with higher power, like the Pope (not the current one but their are ones in history) that have changed Christianity to suit there own benefits.

[justmeh]

I'm tired of debating with self-proclaimed enlightened people who take a book whose roots originate from mythologies as old as those in ancient Egypt, to be fact.

U BLIEVE N SUMTHIN I DUNT!!! THARFOR J00 ISH STOOPID!!!

Love your logic on this matter.

"If [blah blah] evolved from [so-and-so] than why isn't [so-and-so] still evolving?"

They are still evolving, they simply have taken different evolutionary paths than what you are comparing them to. Thus, the monkeys that you refer to in your post actually did evolve from a more primitive version of it. Even now, humans are still evolving constantly. It may not be in ways so extreme such as growing extra limbs and the like, but we are evolving.

I'd say more but I'm tired. =( Stupid work.

[White_Rook]

U BLIEVE N SUMTHIN I DUNT!!! THARFOR J00 ISH STOOPID!!!

Love your logic on this matter.

This is getting rather annoying. Just get your point across without making the artard remarks. My point was that the bible isn't meant to be taken literally in which every single word becomes fact-- it's open to interpretation like any other religion or faith. The person is god knows (I pun like Jesus) how young and automatically assumes that the answer to every single questions resides in a book and that nothing else could ever be possible. All I was getting at was that there's no point in debating with those that can't think critically for the life of them.

The stance of that post was based on the fact that thousands of years ago the Egyptians thought they were right in believing that they arose from the tears of Atum, and years later the Greeks thought that they were right when they believed that Gaia and Uranus spawned the universe from chaos. And now others say that those of the past were all wrong and claim that they hold the ultimate answer: God did it all. It's just an ugly pattern in my opinion, and when you looks at the history in each one all you get is the transformation of one faith into another.

[justmeh]

Where's the fun in making a point if I can't make stupid remarks at the same time? I don't really take this seriously, considering exactly what it is I'm sure you could understand. Also, I agree with what you're saying about not wanting to debate with those that don't really think for themselves, I was just having some fun with you. =)

Can you disprove the existence of some sort of higher being that could be comparable to some sort of God? Could you disprove that evolution was actually simply willed by such a being, and can't be justified using means such as ours because we don't currently have the understanding in order to truly comprehend such a power?

Again, I'd like to get the point across that I actually do believe in evolution, and that it's not the will of some supreme being. I'm pretty much on your side in this debate, but the evolution side has been slaughtering the religion side to the point that it's become somewhat boring.

Peace-and-War, I go to a Catholic school, and they teach both science and religion. They talk about how God could have possibly willed evolution, but they teach evolution pretty much like it's fact. Thus bringing up something else, evolution is but yet a theory, and thus has not been proven for sure. Given the recent advances in modern science, it's quite possible that a lot of what is currently "known" about evolution may be disproven in the time to come. It's highly unlikely, but it's possible. XP

Finally, again speaking to Peace-and-War, science and religion aren't really the same thing, because religion is more based on faith and a belief system. Science is based on what can be proven physically. There's a big difference. If you don't believe me, look at the definition for both. I'd provide a link but I'm lazy as hell.

[Ienzo]

I would say revolution because it IS prooven and makes sense but I am religious.

[killedbyoathkeeper]

I think religion is more probable than evelution. I just can't grasp the concept of the monkeys-to-humans thing..............But that's just me and my religion!

[justmeh]

I would say revolution because it IS prooven and makes sense but I am religious.

No, it's not. Why do you think it's called the THEORY of evolution?

I think religion is more probable than evelution. I just can't grasp the concept of the monkeys-to-humans thing..............But that's just me and my religion!

That statement kinda hurt pretty much every argument for the side of those opposing evolution. You pretty much discredited yourself as well.

[tasogarehime]

No, it's not. Why do you think it's called the THEORY of evolution?


So is Gravity

http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

[Advent]

And yes, I believe I did type it as "Big Bang Theory". When did I say it was fact?

and in many cases, proven?

Right there.

[Repliku]

Evolution all the way. Sure there are some parts that need worked out but that's what research is about. In the end, at least it can be researched and expanded upon and has a basis. I see none of the same for Creationism at all. Also, most creationists don't even comprehend what evolution is about and have some weird theories they say that are not even found in the theories of evolution so that they can win their argument. It helps to study something first before calling it faulty.

[Soushirei]

Right there.
Way to try to relate two posts that had absolutely little to do with each other. Thanks for just taking a slab of that second quote there.

I said 'proven' in context to some scientific experimentation, not the Big bang Theory specifically. Surely you *did* read both posts in their entirety and paid proper homage to your ability to read, rather than just scan posts for words that would 'fit together nicely'.

I'll give you a cookie for effort, though.

[Ienzo]

I am on the religious side but evolution sounds more realistic. Thats what I meant.