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Nashida
08-24-2007, 10:35 PM
ST. PAUL, Minn. - Pounded and strained by heavy traffic and weakened by missing bolts and cracking steel, the failed interstate bridge over the Mississippi River also faced a less obvious enemy: pigeons.

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Inspectors began documenting the buildup of pigeon dung on the span near downtown Minneapolis two decades ago. Experts say the corrosive guano deposited all over the Interstate 35W span's framework helped the steel beams rust faster.

Although investigators have yet to identify the cause of the bridge's Aug. 1 collapse, which killed at least 13 people and injured about 100, the pigeon problem is one of many factors that dogged the structure.

"There is a coating of pigeon dung on steel with nest and heavy buildup on the inside hollow box sections," inspectors wrote in a 1987-1989 report.

In 1996, screens were installed over openings in the bridge's beams to keep pigeons from nesting there, but that didn't prevent the building of droppings elsewhere.

Pigeon droppings contain ammonia and acids, said chemist Neal Langerman, an officer with the health and safety division of the American Chemical Society. If the dung isn't washed away, it dries out and turns into a concentrated salt. When water gets in and combines with the salt and ammonia, it creates small electrochemical reactions that rust the steel underneath.

"Every time you get a little bit of moisture there, you wind up having a little bit of electrochemistry occurring and you wind up with corrosion," said Langerman. "Over a long term, it might in fact cause structural weaknesses."

Langerman emphasized that he wasn't saying pigeon dung factored into the collapse of the 40-year-old bridge. "Let's let the highway transportation and safety people do their job," he said.

The problem is familiar to bridge inspectors everywhere.

The Colorado Department of Transportation spent so much time cleaning pigeon manure off bridges that it is embarking on a two-year research project looking for ways to keep pigeons away from its spans.

"It can be damaging to our structures because it's slightly acidic and it has other compounds in it that can dissolve especially things like concrete," said Patricia Martinek, the agency's environmental research manager.

Pigeon guano isn't just a danger to the bridges.

In the Denver area, the Colorado DOT pays outside environmental specialists to clean bridges wearing full biohazard suits with respirators because of heightened fears about bird flu and other diseases, said Rob Haines, who supervises maintenance there.

Keeping pigeons off bridges usually requires a multi-pronged strategy that can include netting to block holes and surfaces, spikes to keep them from landing, and sometimes poisoning, shooting or trapping the birds, said John Hart, a Grand Rapids, Minn.-based wildlife biologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

The problem is that pigeons are naturally drawn to bridges and tall buildings since they're descended from cliff-dwellers, said Karen Purcell, who heads Project PigeonWatch at the Cornell Lab of Ornithology. Bridges offer shelter from predators and flat surfaces for nesting and roosting.

"It's a nice fit for them," Purcell said.

Meanwhile, the National Transportation Safety Board issued an update on its findings in the collapse Wednesday, saying investigators are looking at whether chemicals used in an automated de-icing system had any corrosive properties.

The state Transportation Department wasn't concerned about the system; in fact, the agency is planning to install a similar system on the replacement bridge, said Khani Sahebjam, a state transportation engineer.

The de-icing elements are inside the concrete deck, Sahebjam said, so he wouldn't expect them to pose a structural problem.

The automated system was triggered by weather conditions and kept the state from having to send crews to spread de-icing chemicals, Sahebjam said.



Source: Yahoo! News-http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_sc/bridge_collapse_pigeons

I'd imagine that maybe the acid found in droppings could have led to erosion, but the whole blame shouldn't be on birds. Opinions?

Meh
08-24-2007, 10:42 PM
Source: Yahoo! News-http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070822/ap_on_sc/bridge_collapse_pigeons

I'd imagine that maybe the acid found in droppings could have led to erosion, but the whole blame shouldn't be on birds. Opinions?
That's pretty hard to follow, but yes, it doesn't seem much entirely like the birds' fault. Something besides the amount of pigeon dung had to have caused the collapse; probably the weight on the bridge helped too, not so sure.

EvilMan_89
08-24-2007, 10:56 PM
i seriously doubt that pigeon droppings could cause a bridge to collapse, no matter how much the amount

dandanrevolutionextreme
08-24-2007, 11:10 PM
maybe they might have made the bridge rust FASTER,, but they cant be to blame foor the entire thing....

Meh
08-24-2007, 11:24 PM
Yes, it did cause it to rust faster. But then that can't really entirely be at the fault of the birds. Nothing was there to make it collapse, I doubt just lone poop on a bridge could do that.

Repliku
08-25-2007, 03:08 AM
This just tells me they shouldn't have used such shoddy metal that could the acid could corrode and break down. Also, perhaps after this, they will figure a way to just wash the bridge bolts down now and then if this is in fact the issue.

Darkwatch
08-25-2007, 03:23 AM
Pigeon droppings is the stupidest thing to blame this on.

Even if the droppings are usually twice as heavy as the food they eat, that doesn't mean it's all because of that.

I bet the day it collapsed was the day that it was rush hour on the bridge.

Gravity
08-25-2007, 04:00 AM
Well, it's true that the acid in the droppings could have aided in erroding the bridge. However, it had been noticed before that the bridge wasn't in perfect condition, and yet it was ignored. The whole thing could have been prevented if they had taken the engineer's advice more seriously...because bridges are just paper in comparison to the forces of nature, and it doesn't matter how much they can hold...they're still relatively easy to destroy.

eml74
08-25-2007, 05:04 AM
Acid droppings could be one of the few factors as to why the bridge collapsed. However, not all fault goes to the bird. Whoever created that bridge should've used stronger material to at least better support the hundreds of cars during rush hour. -.-

Gravity
08-25-2007, 01:02 PM
Well, I don't think it was the materials used so much...I think it was how the materials stood up over time, and how their weakening was ignored...simply because they hadn't seen a major bridge collapse in a while.

Kaitou Sai
08-27-2007, 11:29 PM
yes, it may have had a small factor but you really can't blame the pigeons on the whole thing, the bridge was somewhat old and it should have had better maintainance work on it. Some acidic poop or not, really I think if someone payed attention to the little details like cracks forming and such, then did something about it, I doubt it would have happened.

Cin
08-27-2007, 11:33 PM
Good, I'd rather have the bridge collapse blamed on pidgeon crap then on the war in iraq. which is where everyone's head immidiettly turned when it happened. At least this is somewhat an actual REASON.

Roxas is Hot
08-27-2007, 11:36 PM
I fail to see how pigeon shmat was able to destroy the bridge. Unless we think that their crap is acidic enough melt steel and concrete, this is seemingly pointless.

Darkcloud
08-27-2007, 11:50 PM
This is about as likely as someone making the bridge collapse because of salsa. Even if pigeon guano is to blame for all of this, there are dozens of compounds out there to turn the acidic solution into a neutral solution, so it wouldn't be a threat to the bridge. This just seems like laziness.

XxxXehanortxxX
08-31-2007, 08:26 AM
Honestly, I believe it's pathetic. The bridge was proven to be poor to being with.

Yeah, I guess the pigeon droppings could have contributed to it's collapse, but it was a poor, unsafe bridge to begin with. Nothing was done about it.

The Great Gatz
08-31-2007, 08:13 PM
I live in Minnesota. Umm I find it rather hard to believe. We don't have pigeon problems here as bad as other places. And I mean how come they haven't caused smaller bridges here to fall yet?

TabbyRoxas
09-28-2007, 10:02 AM
haha that's awesome!. This should be in the Spam-Zone.

But to stay on Topic-

I dot understand how pigeon crap can cause a bridge to collapse 0.o

Crumpet
09-28-2007, 10:44 AM
if it was bird poo - why didn't they clean it up - that's just wrong

The Great Gatz
11-10-2007, 10:39 PM
Ok I know this is somewhat old news now. I went to the bridge and forgot to post here. And when I saw it I thought no way in hell did bird poop cause this.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z151/Danfort/DSCF0594.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z151/Danfort/DSCF0592.jpg

Those pictures don't show it very well but being there and seeing it was way different from the news. To think pigeon poop caused the bridge to collapse is absurd.