The Golden Compass

[Sara]

There's been a ton of controversy about this, the archbishop of my state denounced it on the news.

I went to see it a few hours ago, and I don't see where the anti-religion comes from. Yes, it talks about the "evil" of the church, but it's in a alternate universe where there's familiars called "demons" by the church, but are like your conscience and soul. They change while you change.

In my opinion, this is mine, I haven't read the books yet. I think it's been once again blown out of proportion with the censors of the church declaring it was evil. Despite the fact the same people allow kids to see one of the goriest movies of all time to show their god's "passion." *Passion of the Christ, heard about it in the news and my dad tried to make me go*

It is just a harmless kids movie where most of it it's not even focused mainly on the church, yes it has underlying themes, but it's about morals and someone using their wits and courage to find her friends.

Thoughts anyone?

[Saintlikesgirls]

in the third book; baby lambs rise up and eat the land and all the trees D:

[Sara]

No spoilers, though I doubt it's true. And note, I'm an admin... I can give out warnings if I see comments like that, Unsaintly.

[Darkandroid]

This is a discussion about the issue, not about the ending the books, and besides that's spoilers for those who haven't seen it. >_>

[Saintlikesgirls]

dude i was giving my reason for why it was "evil" :| jeeze make up your mind whether you want answers or not

[Sara]

Look, if you want to "Intelligently" discuss the movie, go ahead. You already earned a warning, if you want to continue, the ban button is nearby.

[Catch the Rain]

IMO I see no issue with it, afterall The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe also has very strong religious links but it was supported.

I have read the books and I enjoyed them a lot, for sure I can see why the Church would claim controversy, but I don't believe them to be "evil" books.

These are the sort of books/films that children need to help stimulate their imagination instead of all the crap that is currently out there.


I think that the Church have really kicked themselves with this. Afterall controversy sells.

[Rosey]

IMO I see no issue with it, afterall The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe also has very strong religious links but it was supported.

I have read the books and I enjoyed them a lot, for sure I can see why the Church would claim controversy, but I don't believe them to be "evil" books.

These are the sort of books/films that children need to help stimulate their imagination instead of all the crap that is currently out there.


I think that the Church have really kicked themselves with this. Afterall controversy sells.

I agree with this :/

Ive read the first book, though it was a long time ago, I dont remember it being that much of a religion book. I mean seriously, I havent read the other two, but it was a good book, and I think it will be a good movie.

My friends mom wont actually go let her see it, and so my mom is all "Dont talk her about it, she cant see it!"
Me: Why...>_>
Mom: Something about Killing god.....

And I will admit to the fact that the author was a die hard atheist. But that shouldnt change why someone should read it. *shrugs*

[Sara]

It's up to the parents to decide what to teach the kids from it. They could say: "People should burn in hell for letting them see this movie." Or teaching them the morals and values and courage of standing for your own belief and your friends.

It's not the movie, it's what you get from it. Yes, so kids might question the beliefs, but in some points it could be something that parents could teach their kids about, not just say: "It's the devil!!!" I think that actually does more harm than good because kids won't grow up to learn or think anything else.

In some ways, it actually does lead back to the movie.

[Catch the Rain]

Well IMO sheltering a child does more harm, yes children should be children but they need to be able to make their own minds up and form their own beliefs, banning them from going to see a film is stupid IMO.

Many of the kids who go to see it probably wouldn't pick up on the underlying themes if it wasn't shoved onto them like this.

[Saintlikesgirls]

iff you dont mind i would like to take another try at this;

the reason it is considered evil is because the author was aethiest and, he wrote a book that was anti-christian. and so, since a lot of the wolrd is christianity a lot of them thought that it was evil. so of course alost every single through and through christian would think tat it was evil and that they do not want they're children to be mislead from their religion

[Sara]

Much better, thank you... *to Unsaintly* It's not just posting what happens to spoil it for everyone else, it's posting your thoughts and beliefs. More than just a sentence.

As for what you said, would it make the person more sheltered to not see it? Saying what a kid can and cannot see just because of beliefs won't allow them to ever wonder what is out there, won't allow them to think that they can't have their own thoughts and morals not throughly supported by the church.

I have a god mother who's a blue-blooded Catholic and she's seen all the Harry Potter movies. Does that make her wrong and less of a Catholic? No, my dad has heard about it, even though I haven't brought him to a movie since he started praying in the second one, he even compares it to Christianity.

And yet both are censored by the church. There are cults out there like the one portrayed in the movie. And no, I'm not targeting any religion, I'm just point that out. Does that make it worse that they did pick a popular religion?

[Darkvincent]

I hear the movie is a watered down version of the book , so lets read the book and see wat that says.....(thats all I hav to say for now)

[Roxas is Hot]

Alright, I can't really say much on this debate, since I have not read or seen The Golden Compass. It's never really caught my interest until now.


I have heard though that most people take it as being..."Anti-Christian"? I'm not too sure about this, but that's what the web says. (I know, it's pretty stupid to place your bets on what the internet says.) But I read at least half of the book before my attention span reached its limit. Never did I find a place in the book where it seemed anti-church in any way.


I'll end this post here, since I don't want to make anything sound wrong by my lack of knowledge here. I might see it anyway, since them apparently..."killing God" doesn't offend me in any way whatsoever.

[Xendran]

i myself being a christian, will probably see it anyways, even though they "kill god" its just a movie, so IMO it shouldnt be that big of a dela. just because one man doesnt belive in God, doesnt mean it has to affect what i belive. i relaly dont get offended y these sort of things, and i respect other peoples beleif's, because everybbody has a right to choose what they want to believe.

[White_Rook]

It's just the usual fuss regarding a film's mass release and potential popularity and it's possible anti-Christian under-tones. Except in this case Pullman is a known promoter of Atheism. Having already written a number of children's books with themes that discuss Atheism the Church is attributing this movie's production with seeding Atheism.

This is just another crazy allegation on the Church's part. For one, the movie and most of Pullman's fantasy writings are fantasy first, and you can construe hidden agendas from anything if you mutilate them enough with inquiry. As for hidden meanings regarding the Church, he's an Atheist to begin with-- name a single writer who has not and does not combine elements of their world view, their perceptions, or their very lives into whatever they write. Unfortunately that's just the way it is.

[Laurence_Fox]

I never even realized there were books for it.

But I do know that the Church will make itself vocal about the movies that are out at a given time whether the Church is portrayed in it or not. They praised The Lord of the Rings trilogy for it's message of good vs. evil and even went so far as to say that Frodo was a portrayal of Jesus.

But from what I have seen of the trailers of the movie, I've seen nothing that would upset the Church about it. Aside from the 'familiars' which is to represent your soul....or from what I've read.

The human brain thinks what it wants no matter what message a movie/book/game presents since we all think different.

Off-note:
I'm disappointed I haven't gotten a chance to see it yet. End of semester and all that.

[Jordier0xs0x]

So basically they are saying that any Non-Christian movies should go die In a hole?

....

*Cough* Well, I agree, It Is just a kids movie, unfortunately I haven't seen or read the books or movie so I wouldn't know much. Although, If It does talk about 'killing God' It might Inflict on the child.
But like I said before, Its just a movie and people like It, so what are they going to do about It?

Also, there are MUCH worse books then The Golden Compass, so why don't they check those out Instead of Inflicting It all on one?

[Enigmatic Boy]

So basically they are saying that any Non-Christian movies should go die In a hole?

....

*Cough* Well, I agree, It Is just a kids movie, unfortunately I haven't seen or read the books or movie so I wouldn't know much. Although, If It does talk about 'killing God' It might Inflict on the child.
But like I said before, Its just a movie and people like It, so what are they going to do about It?

Also, there are MUCH worse books then The Golden Compass, so why don't they check those out Instead of Inflicting It all on one?

Maybe its cause this is a kids book/movie.

Anyway, I've read the books (big fan of them), and yes they are anti-christian. I'm also a devout Catholic, yet still I don't see why the church is making suck a big fuss of it. I mean, the books are clearly marked as FICTION, so no one should believe in this stuff. These are books made for enjoyment, not controversy.

The movie is also watered-down and such, so the Church shouldn't have any worries.

[kingdomkutie]

Maybe its cause this is a kids book/movie.

Anyway, I've read the books (big fan of them), and yes they are anti-christian. I'm also a devout Catholic, yet still I don't see why the church is making suck a big fuss of it. I mean, the books are clearly marked as FICTION, so no one should believe in this stuff. These are books made for enjoyment, not controversy.

The movie is also watered-down and such, so the Church shouldn't have any worries.

I've read that there is also some cotreversy over whether The Golden Compass should even be considered a children's book/movie because of it's supposed "anti-Christian" messages. I am Catholic & I have read all three books & can't wait to see the movie. I agree that the books are clearly marked as fiction & shouldn't be treated like it's the anti-Bible or something. There really are much worse books than that out there.

On another note, people should be able to freely form their own opinions & beliefs without outside forces, in this case the Church, pressuring them and trying to influence them. If parents don't want their children to see this movie or even read the books because it its supposedly "anti-Christian", then that is their opinion and shouldn't force it upon their children. If they do that then how will the children ever form their own opinions about anything? They'll just take up their parents' opinions on things because it was forced on them & they don't believe any differently.

[O R A N G E]

My family and I are all Agnostic. My cousins and Aunt and Uncle anonymously subscribed us to a ridiculously Christian magazine. We get it every month and laugh.

Last month it said that the movie isn't too bad but they don't want people to see it becuase they might like the movie and go out and buy the book, which, according to them, is "The real danger."

I've read the Golden Compass, and it isn't only against Christianity, it's against all organized religion, but Christians are the only ones taking it personally. I think that the fact that there is no religion in the book makes it better. I also think that the Christians need to get over themselves and realize that everything that says something bad about religion is not a personal attack on them. The book may seem bad, but if you don't like what it presents, don't read it. But don't try and stop other people from reading something they could have enjoyed. It's your opinion, not theirs, so don't try and force them to do something.

Movies have the freedom to present whatever religious message they want. They are not trying to turn children against god or do anything of the sort.

[Sara]

Well... Now I'm upset, a good friend of mine who I've known for years blocked me when I told her to see it.

It's just... Stupid. They haven't even seen the movie yet are thinking that the movie should be banned and that society is going to burn in hell for making a movie like this. Reading the Yahoo reviews like that makes me wonder who really is making this country/world worse.

These kids are impressionable, yes... But does it really make these kids better putting them in such a pov where only what is approved by the church is fine and the rest is the devil?

This reminds me of so many times past in history it makes me wonder.

Have we really changed or learned from history? Or are we just in a cycle that will never end?

[8730]

Firstly the book was originally called Northern Lights, it is just the American film which is called The Golden Compass. Also, the film is a massively watered down version of the book as the producers were probably trying to attract too much controversy, but then again this is religion we are talking about here so of course there will be controversy.

Philip Pullman wrote these books to directly counter The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe as these were written with Christian under-tones he wrote his with Atheist undertones.

I believe that children should be allowed to see and experience all sides of the belief thing. Pullman is just allowing them a glimpse of the atheist life. But no, the Catholic Church is so scared that its followers faith is not strong enough that it calls for outright bans of the film. Suppressing the competition before it can get a foothold, as it has done throughout history (although a lot of that history is locked away in the Vatican vaults, never to see the light of day).

Also, as has been mentioned, this film does not directly target Christianity, it is 'attacking' organised religion as a whole (which I believe to be the true evil >_>). The book itself supports the idea of spirituality and individual worship and belief systems. But it shows organised religion as what I believe it to be only in a more exaggerated form. I see it as what the world would be like if the Catholic Church had never lost its power.

[Roxas is Hot]

Well... Now I'm upset, a good friend of mine who I've known for years blocked me when I told her to see it.

It's just... Stupid. They haven't even seen the movie yet are thinking that the movie should be banned and that society is going to burn in hell for making a movie like this. Reading the Yahoo reviews like that makes me wonder who really is making this country/world worse.

These kids are impressionable, yes... But does it really make these kids better putting them in such a pov where only what is approved by the church is fine and the rest is the devil?

This reminds me of so many times past in history it makes me wonder.

Have we really changed or learned from history? Or are we just in a cycle that will never end?

Well, I have to say your friend is stupid. Blocking you just because you recommended a movie is outrageous in my view. For crying out loud, it's just a movie! Most things in movies don't actually happen in real life. I hope he/she knows that.

Honestly, Christians are really starting to piss me off. It's hard to hear the word 'God' without shaking your head with a snort. If religion's really pushing people to the point of bursting over a movie which apparently "kills" a "God" then...

[Repliku]

I personally think the movie looks pretty darn good and the books were great to me. Of course, being as I am not a religious sort at all, the religious intonations are something I often 'ignore' or just pay attention to but don't let them get to me.

The reason "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" wasn't dissed is because the author was a Christian and the book had strong Christian tones in it when you look for them. It's not hard to see at all, so it is a movie with 'faith' involved that no one disses on when Christian.

However, we've seen the notoriety that Harry Potter received because it had witchcraft in it. Several people raised a stink about it and also some felt it was their civic ethical duty to steal books and burn them, as well as ban their children from it.

This movie is going to face scrutiny for it but anyone not a die-hard Christian and is let to see the movie may just enjoy it. Some die-hard Christians may actually like it too if their parents don't try to say 'no' to them going. I will go see it once it's out and know of Christians that want to go see it too and do not care about the 'warnings' that some spout because it's a movie that is geared to action and adventure and we all highly doubt it's going to be 'that' controversial. If anything, the churches that condemn the movie may help it along. After all, I didn't think "The Da Vinci Code" was that good a movie but it certainly did better in the box office than it might have if people didn't rally so much against it.

[Gravity]

I've read all three books, and I saw the movie yesterday. After having to do a speech on the entire thing in my Literature class, I had already known that the Magesterium had been changed, and any direct references to God or religion had been taken out of the movie. In fact, I only noticed two things that could have told you that the Magesterium was a religious organization besides reading the books: the wall of the Magesterium's outpost in the North had a mural of what appeared to be saints, and the attire of the Magesterium's workers reflected that of people in the Vatican. These details probably could have been overlooked by someone who didn't know what they were looking for or hadn't read at least one of the books.

One of the things that really bothered me, however, was the reception I got when I announced to my parish that I was going to see the film. I'm Roman Catholic, and we supposedly have a boycott on The Golden Compass. I was actually chased out of the church and threatened for announcing it, as well as asked not to come to our youth group outing. I think that the way people are acting about this is ridiculous and wrong...if they've stooped to terrorizing highschool Freshmen, then society has hit an all-time low.

[O R A N G E]

I personally think the movie looks pretty darn good and the books were great to me. Of course, being as I am not a religious sort at all, the religious intonations are something I often 'ignore' or just pay attention to but don't let them get to me.

The reason "The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe" wasn't dissed is because the author was a Christian and the book had strong Christian tones in it when you look for them. It's not hard to see at all, so it is a movie with 'faith' involved that no one disses on when Christian.

However, we've seen the notoriety that Harry Potter received because it had witchcraft in it. Several people raised a stink about it and also some felt it was their civic ethical duty to steal books and burn them, as well as ban their children from it.

This movie is going to face scrutiny for it but anyone not a die-hard Christian and is let to see the movie may just enjoy it. Some die-hard Christians may actually like it too if their parents don't try to say 'no' to them going. I will go see it once it's out and know of Christians that want to go see it too and do not care about the 'warnings' that some spout because it's a movie that is geared to action and adventure and we all highly doubt it's going to be 'that' controversial. If anything, the churches that condemn the movie may help it along. After all, I didn't think "The Da Vinci Code" was that good a movie but it certainly did better in the box office than it might have if people didn't rally so much against it.

I agree. Any movie that has any undertones of anti-religious anything at all is going to be boycotted against which is really ridiculous. People are overreacting. Seeing this movie will not turn their children against Christianity, and they might even like it if they weren't so worried about the nonexistent "hidden message" it is supposedly giving.

[8730]

I think people are more worried that their faith isn't strong enough to stand up against any sort of pressure. I mean, if you were a true believer, even if you did see the film it shouldn't have any effect on you?

That's another thing I hate about theists, they think they can tell people how to live their lives. If other people want to see the film and in their eyes burn in hell let them. Don't make their lives a misery just because you think you are right. Forcing your beliefs on others is or at least should be a sin =_=

[MARIExBRIARWOOD]

I believe people are entitled to their own opinions and how they want to raise their children. If you don't want your kids to see it, then it is your right as a parent to tell them no. However, I don't believe you should publicly denounce a book or movie as evil because of its themes.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought The Golden Compass was a pretty large chapter book, unless the thick book I saw at the store was just a compilation of kids short stories?

The kids reading that kind of book can't be too young. Perhaps 10-15 is the age group? These kids can't be influenced THAT easily if they were brought up with he right values and were taught to recognize truth and reality in movies. I don't know how todays kids are raised, but even as young as 4 I remember seeing movies and knowing what happened in them wasn't real, and at that young I didn't really care about the morals or themes of the movies, I just liked all the action.

As I stated before, parents are entitled to however they want their kids raised, but do they have that little faith in the values they instilled on their children that they're afraid they'll be influence and scarred for life by an "evil" movie?

[Sara]

Another thing that bothers me about it is not just the fact they're banning the children. It's HOW they're doing it.

I remember during the 1960's of the Civil Rights movement. I saw a lot of videos of not the kids starting the problems, but the PARENTS being angry and throwing fits and rioting and throwing things at black kids or adults as they try to integrate into the white society. The kids followed a short time later, for a while, it seemed like the kids were actually trying to be nice to the new change and helping them, but it looked like their parents basically showed it wasn't okay, or that it was okay to do what they did.

Here I see in a lot of reviews of kids posting: "Well... My mom said I couldn't go because it's the devil." *trying not to give spoilers* Or: "My mom brought me and told me in the beginning that they hate God and it's against God."

These parents are talking about IMPRESSIONABLE kids. These kids will take something away from this, whether or not their parents know it. They're throwing fits, and quoting the bible, and saying how this is how society becomes morally corrupt from this and saying that this is the thing that will destroy society in a place where kids will read those replies. They're not hiding the fact that they're religious, have kids, and don't believe in any of this kind of stuff, either.

It's not just the movie in this case, it's what... *thinks for a moment* It's what overall you bring away for these kids that are important.

Whether or not it's religious or not.

[MARIExBRIARWOOD]

Well, I believe the damage parents do by fighting this and their kids knowing it and seeing how they do it is worse than actually going and seeing the movie itself, but thats just me. Because I would rather take my child to see the movie and ask what they thought of it or if they had any questions or if there was something they didn't quite understand, even if maybe there was something in it that could have confused their religious beliefs rather than teach them how to discriminate and hate that which they do not know or understand.

How many parents have actually seen the movie or read the books? How many are just forming opinions on the reviews? How many are following their religious leaders who probably formed opinions on reviews?

Then again, I am only 19 and I am not yet a mother. However, I want to raise my kids to be aware of the world around them both good and bad. You shelter children too much and it actually makes things worse for them.

I know this is a little off subject, but for example today's generation. We are afraid of germs. We won't eat anything if it even has one bad spot or one speckle of dirt. We go to the doctor even if we sneeze just once and look what its done to us... we have weakened immune systems and get sick so easily because we're afraid of cooties, because as children and babies we weren't allowed normal contact with bacteria and other things so we aren't used to them.

They're basically doing the same things to their kids' minds. Trying to keep them so "pure" and away from the "virus". I think one day all this persecuting and "protecting" of children's minds will be our undoing. If we clutch them and cover their eyes too much they won't be able to handle all of life's struggles.

[Sara]

A little off-topic...

My mom always told me what I wanted to know. If I asked about how babies are born, even at four, she'd tell me. She wouldn't tell me as an adult, but she would tell me at the age that it's appropriate at. My dad, who's a blind follower Evangelical Christian, never told me what I asked about. He talked a lot about God, and he talked a lot about the church and it's beliefs. God always came up no matter what we talked about.

My mom gave me a lot more to impress from, and I learned more from her. She never imposed her point of view unless it was something that was morally wrong. My dad basically tried to impose his POV at every chance.

And yes, my dad is a health freak, doesn't go to the doc's even if he's dying, though. He takes about 5,000 vitamins. (I kid you not.)

I think the movie itself isn't the problem, it's what the reaction is to it. My mom told me after seeing it last night that it is free will, God gives us free will. And I believe that. And yes, she believes you can take the wrong path from reading the books or seeing the movies, but it's up to you to decide that.

First you have to see it, and talk to the kids about it.

[MARIExBRIARWOOD]

I've never actually seen the movie, and I'm not a die-hard Christian but I do believe in God, simply because without anything to believe in the world seems like a pretty bleak and bruised place to be. However, just because I've seen multiple times throughout the thread that "God is killed." It doesn't alter my desire to see the movie.

If they really thought about it, if God was killed in this movie then technically despite the views of the author and what he would claim, this clearly is not the same God if though those were his intentions, because the God I know cannot be killed.

I agree totally with you Sara =]

But there will always be people who remain ignorant and blind. Its a fact of life. They've been around since the beginning of time.

[clawtooth35]

You know this is ticking me off. people have to be able to express their own veiws. If you don't want to go and see it, then fine, we won't rub its awsomnessnessness in your face but if we want to than don't go and say "It's the devil and it's not natural and bla bla bla". We ddin't rub it in your face so why should you in ours.

Also, this is weird. I go to a catholic High School (although I'm Athest) and they are advertising the movie in the Library!!!

This reminds me of what happened to the Da Vinci code but you know what? When His Dark Materials or The Da Vinci Code came out as books, the church wasn't complaining! Why is it that they only take notice if something is out in pictures? Are they unable to read!!! Seriously tho I think that these people need to be stopped, There people are the same sort of people who said Dulce et Decorum est Pro Partria Mori.

[Sara]

To answer your question, clawtooth...

I don't think not nearly as many people realize that there's a book about it. About half of the books I end up reading now was from not knowing there was one before the movie.

When it comes to the movie, even people have heard about the book might think that people who see the movie will read the book. It's just one of those publicity/promotion things.

EDIT: Also, if you read some of the reviews for the Dark Materials Series, specially the last one, there's a lot of protests in it, but not nearly as much now.

[iwantedtoexplode]

iff you dont mind i would like to take another try at this;

the reason it is considered evil is because the author was aethiest and, he wrote a book that was anti-christian. and so, since a lot of the wolrd is christianity a lot of them thought that it was evil. so of course alost every single through and through christian would think tat it was evil and that they do not want they're children to be mislead from their religion

I've seen movies that support Christianity. Me being an Atheist, they kind of piss me off, but then I just go off and eat a bag of chips. What the Catholic church needs to realize is that they don't have to make a big stink about everything that questions their beliefs. As Sara has said, it doesn't make them less of a Christian to keep their mouths shut, if anything, it only shows they have doubt in their religion. If they think a simple kids movie can beat them to the extent that they have to censor it, doesn't that show lack of faith in their followers?

If we censor everything that suggests some form of real life theme, what will we have left? Unopinionated documentaries, news broadcasts, sports and porn, that's what. Now that everyone's beliefs are protected and secure, is anyone happy?

It's okay to get angry at someone/something challenging your beliefs,but remember, beliefs are not facts, so please, don't treat them as if they are the governing principle of the world.

[Destined]

I can't believe It has taken me almost a year to discover this section.

Anyway, what is the Golden Compass? It's a movie, it's a book, IT'S FICTION!!!!!! It's not reality. Do polar bears wear armor and talk or whatever in our society, no.

This is like the DaVinci Code all over again.

It's not reality, it's one man or womans imagination taking shape and we are aloud to choose whether or not to partake.

And because there is such a big debate about this, I plan to sit down this winter holiday and read this series to find out why everyone is so anti right now.

[Solid Snake]

There's been a ton of controversy about this, the archbishop of my state denounced it on the news.

I went to see it a few hours ago, and I don't see where the anti-religion comes from. Yes, it talks about the "evil" of the church, but it's in a alternate universe where there's familiars called "demons" by the church, but are like your conscience and soul. They change while you change.

In my opinion, this is mine, I haven't read the books yet. I think it's been once again blown out of proportion with the censors of the church declaring it was evil. Despite the fact the same people allow kids to see one of the goriest movies of all time to show their god's "passion." *Passion of the Christ, heard about it in the news and my dad tried to make me go*

It is just a harmless kids movie where most of it it's not even focused mainly on the church, yes it has underlying themes, but it's about morals and someone using their wits and courage to find her friends.

Thoughts anyone?
from what ive heard the author's point of this book/movie was to make an opisite of the chroniculs of narnia(which has alot of religion in it) because he felt people need to turn away from god :\

[Repliku]

I guess it's already well been pointed out that the problem of some people basically comes down to 'fear' that those who are believers in Christianity and wayward at the time might be corrupted to becoming atheists or some agnostic, or agnostics will yet become atheists from the movie. Really, boycotting and speaking out against a movie always seems to just give it more prestige so it would help if those who don't want their own children to see it, they just make that choice themselves.

A movie, TV show or book shouldn't be something 'strong' enough to sway someone's mind from a religion. It's a personal choice to take the 'leap of faith' and believe, or to not believe. I see quite a few Christian groups, not just Catholics, doing this act of Churches speaking out against it and calling for a boycott, so I wouldn't just target one group. Some church groups also seem to care less than others. It always makes me rather leery to see that people fear so much that others will lose their faith over something so trivial. There are those who are Christian here and posted saying they'd watch the movie and it of course isn't going to sway them. After all, they realize it's a fictional story to just watch and enjoy. Those who do these rallies against fiction really should take a look at these other 'non fearing' Christians and take a lesson from them. Sadly, they won't and instead might even call them heretics.

What annoys me is that I have sat through a number of Christian shows, movies etc, and the news constantly at this time of year caters to Christians due to the holiday, and yet I can and will do so because it is a part of culture, though I don't believe in it at all. I hear Christian references constantly and am not going to turn off a movie for the word 'God' or stop reading X-Men because Professor X is a die-hard Christian. I am very glad to see there are Christians out there that can accept others are not all the same in thoughts etc. I accept this too and I wish we all could learn more tolerance and acceptance of differences and no one should have to live with 'fear' of what others think or feel. It is not the same as what people -do-.

My apologies for going somewhat off target with this, but it is just one of those things that gets to me. Fear is such a deadly thing that often spirals into hate and people do such idiotic things when in these two emotional states. Hopefully those of us who do not can remain strong in such times of adversity.

[Dredica]

Well, I didn't think of it saying the church was evil. All I got was that, their souls live on the outside, like ours on the inside, but theirs takes a physical shape. They call them demons, so what?? Just a name. Also, I think it should have been rated like PG-13, inless it already was, I can't remember though, but yeah it was horribly violent for a kid's movie. Ugh I mean when the 'war' bear hit the other one's jaw off, eww, I still thought it was kick *** though.

[Darkwatch]

Meh. I don't see a problem with the movie. Whether or not what is in it is appropriate or not, if people would just realize it was completely fantasy, then maybe there'd be less problems.

Mainly the church. <_<;

[TheMuffinMan]

from what ive heard the author's point of this book/movie was to make an opisite of the chroniculs of narnia(which has alot of religion in it) because he felt people need to turn away from god

I believe Pullman greatly dislikes that people refer to his books as the "Anti-Narnia", he never intended for his series to be that, and it's an atrocious example of how everything in our culture has to be labeled and associated with something else. All he wanted to do when he made the series was explore his own questions and philosophies about Religion through a story, and perhaps via that his readers could reach their own conclusions.

[Dredica]

I thought he just liked to make a cool fantasy series. Can somebody please explain to me why it's supposly 'against' the church?

[cloud's buddy]

There's been a ton of controversy about this, the archbishop of my state denounced it on the news.

I went to see it a few hours ago, and I don't see where the anti-religion comes from. Yes, it talks about the "evil" of the church, but it's in a alternate universe where there's familiars called "demons" by the church, but are like your conscience and soul. They change while you change.

In my opinion, this is mine, I haven't read the books yet. I think it's been once again blown out of proportion with the censors of the church declaring it was evil. Despite the fact the same people allow kids to see one of the goriest movies of all time to show their god's "passion." *Passion of the Christ, heard about it in the news and my dad tried to make me go*

It is just a harmless kids movie where most of it it's not even focused mainly on the church, yes it has underlying themes, but it's about morals and someone using their wits and courage to find her friends.

Thoughts anyone?

it is bad because the author doesn't believe in christ

[Dredica]

it is bad because the author doesn't believe in christ

That has absloutly nothing with the book stupid. Okay, if someone were not to believe in christ, and wrote a book, your saying that the church would say that the book is evil because the author dosn't believe in christ? Not to be mean or anything, but what you said was like one of the most stupid thing I have ever read in this thread so far. You can't judge the book by it's cover, in other words, in this situation, you can't judge the book by it's author.

[♥AL90♥]

Look the guy who made the book came out and said that he was deliberatley trying to steer people away from God. That made a lot of people have biased fellings about the movie.

But I don't think that it's nice to try to trick yonug people who believe in God to like become atheists. Christians try to steer people to God but most of them don't push it on them.

This movie I'm not going to see it because of 1. I'm a Christian and I'm not going to givs this guy money for opposing my beliefs. 2. Talking Polar Bears. that's not right.

[TheMuffinMan]

Look the guy who made the book came out and said that he was deliberatley trying to steer people away from God.

and where did he say this? And did you ever bother to check the context of the statement?

But I don't think that it's nice to try to trick yonug people who believe in God to like become atheists

I'm sorry, but how is it a trick? He wrote a fantasy book series that explores questions and doubts of faith that every person has no doubt asked themselves at one point, but never dwelled on, and fabricates an adventure out of it full of the same moral values that any other story would tell you.

His Dark Materials are no more a trick than Star Wars, or Harry Potter. Unless, you want to say that similarly, The Chronicles of Narnia are a blatant and devious trick of equal standards.

Christians try to steer people to God but most of them don't push it on them.

Hold on, do you live in the real world?

"I'm not in the business of offending people. I find the books upholding certain values that I think are important. Such as that this life is immensely valuable. And that this world is an extraordinarily beautiful place, and we should do what we can to increase the amount of wisdom in the world'." -Phillip Pullman

[♥AL90♥]

and where did he say this? And did you ever bother to check the context of the statement?



I'm sorry, but how is it a trick? He wrote a fantasy book series that explores questions and doubts of faith that every person has no doubt asked themselves at one point, but never dwelled on, and fabricates an adventure out of it full of the same moral values that any other story would tell you.

His Dark Materials are no more a trick than Star Wars, or Harry Potter. Unless, you want to say that similarly, The Chronicles of Narnia are a blatant and devious trick of equal standards.



Hold on, do you live in the real world?

"I'm not in the business of offending people. I find the books upholding certain values that I think are important. Such as that this life is immensely valuable. And that this world is an extraordinarily beautiful place, and we should do what we can to increase the amount of wisdom in the world'." -Phillip Pullman


I'm sorry but look, as a Christian one of my duties is not to conform to the World. Another one is to see through deception. I mean it doesn't matter if it is a kid book or movie! It matters what message is getting through to kids. You may think nothing is getting to them but if they were like me when I was younger they like to get answers to questions that many people can't answer like,"When is the world going to end," and,"How old is God?" obviously the media is racking their brains trying to think of something for kids to get into and spend all their time and money on it.

They want us to live a fantasy that's heading toward a path of destruction! Most of the media. Maybe just this movie and commercials though.

Anyway if you won't listen to me then fine. I'm not going to force it on you. Just to be straight foward I'm making some suggestions. Okay?

btw- I live in the real world I'm just in my head thinking about everything all the time

[Repliku]

Look the guy who made the book came out and said that he was deliberatley trying to steer people away from God. That made a lot of people have biased fellings about the movie.

But I don't think that it's nice to try to trick yonug people who believe in God to like become atheists. Christians try to steer people to God but most of them don't push it on them.

This movie I'm not going to see it because of 1. I'm a Christian and I'm not going to givs this guy money for opposing my beliefs. 2. Talking Polar Bears. that's not right.

Um...I don't know what rock you've been hiding under here. Christians make things all the time to turn people to God. Missionaries go to other countries and along with a 'cure' for some malady pass people Bibles and pretty well force religion on them. I've witnessed it as it happened to me and others. Christians also have been condemning others that if they don't believe in what they do they will go to Hell. I'm sorry but cursing someone to an afterlife of misery that you believe in because someone else does not believe as you do is -pushing it-. Funding things through religion so it can spread its message at people who don't want to hear it is -pushing it-. Trying to force those who aren't of Christianity to see the 10 Commandments in public schools is -pushing it-. Also, lets not forget things like how scientists were suddenly 'Christian' again at their dead bed when these notions never truly happened but it sure hit the paper, such as with Darwin. I could go on and on with examples, but I think I've made enough of a point that the facts go against your statement.

As for this movie, it is a fantasy story. It amazes me how Christians can force things at others repeatedly but something that may symbolize something against the religion is suddenly evil and blasphemous. How many Christians throughout the ages have shot down every other deity and forced it to become a 'myth' now? I would think Christians could stand to stop their demonstrations and let a movie be a movie and a book be a book, regardless of what it says in its pages.

Christians are -not- martyrs, yet the extremists always want to make them out to seem that way and I seriously doubt this movie is going to promote a ton more recruits to Atheism. Most people, after all, go to watch a movie because...it's a movie! Oh my. Christianity and Islam interchangeably are the top two religions in the world. It is -not- threatened and seriously, thinking so is zealous, and to me, bordering on insanity. Millions of people are Christians. I don't see millions of them saying 'well this movie changed my whole view so now, I don't believe'.

Christianity has a tremendous amount of great people who aren't so thin skinned and a silly book or movie is not going to shake their resolve or make them question their beliefs. So fanatic Christians are the ones in the end who think they must 'save the world', 'save people's souls', remove all of the enjoyable things in life because it's a sin, say we are all born in absolute sin and must believe to be saved, compromise their own 10 Commandments such as stealing and lying to preserve their images, and -hate- anything that questions or denounces their religion while they ridicule, mock and destroy everyone else's beliefs.

In all seriousness, I do ponder why more Christians who seem to actually follow it better and read the book themselves don't get fed up with fanatics and tell them to sod off, because their reactions really make others look bad and at the same time the fanatics are telling regular Christians that they are -too weak willed- to watch a movie and not be deterred from their paths. If a movie or book can shake a person's devotion so much, that person had to have doubts in the first place and shouldn't we remember that life is about personal choice and growth and let each person experience his/her own life? Jesus never seemed so violent as the zealots out there that are the chief reason if anything that others find Christianity hard to swallow. They are a scourge in themselves and more deadly than any Atheist writing a book will ever be to the religion.

[♥AL90♥]

Um...I don't know what rock you've been hiding under here. Christians make things all the time to turn people to God. Missionaries go to other countries and along with a 'cure' for some malady pass people Bibles and pretty well force religion on them. I've witnessed it as it happened to me and others. Christians also have been condemning others that if they don't believe in what they do they will go to Hell. I'm sorry but cursing someone to an afterlife of misery that you believe in because someone else does not believe as you do is -pushing it-. Funding things through religion so it can spread its message at people who don't want to hear it is -pushing it-. Trying to force those who aren't of Christianity to see the 10 Commandments in public schools is -pushing it-. Also, lets not forget things like how scientists were suddenly 'Christian' again at their dead bed when these notions never truly happened but it sure hit the paper, such as with Darwin. I could go on and on with examples, but I think I've made enough of a point that the facts go against your statement.

As for this movie, it is a fantasy story. It amazes me how Christians can force things at others repeatedly but something that may symbolize something against the religion is suddenly evil and blasphemous. How many Christians throughout the ages have shot down every other deity and forced it to become a 'myth' now? I would think Christians could stand to stop their demonstrations and let a movie be a movie and a book be a book, regardless of what it says in its pages.

Christians are -not- martyrs, yet the extremists always want to make them out to seem that way and I seriously doubt this movie is going to promote a ton more recruits to Atheism. Most people, after all, go to watch a movie because...it's a movie! Oh my. Christianity and Islam interchangeably are the top two religions in the world. It is -not- threatened and seriously, thinking so is zealous, and to me, bordering on insanity. Millions of people are Christians. I don't see millions of them saying 'well this movie changed my whole view so now, I don't believe'.

Christianity has a tremendous amount of great people who aren't so thin skinned and a silly book or movie is not going to shake their resolve or make them question their beliefs. So fanatic Christians are the ones in the end who think they must 'save the world', 'save people's souls', remove all of the enjoyable things in life because it's a sin, say we are all born in absolute sin and must believe to be saved, compromise their own 10 Commandments such as stealing and lying to preserve their images, and -hate- anything that questions or denounces their religion while they ridicule, mock and destroy everyone else's beliefs.

In all seriousness, I do ponder why more Christians who seem to actually follow it better and read the book themselves don't get fed up with fanatics and tell them to sod off, because their reactions really make others look bad and at the same time the fanatics are telling regular Christians that they are -too weak willed- to watch a movie and not be deterred from their paths. If a movie or book can shake a person's devotion so much, that person had to have doubts in the first place and shouldn't we remember that life is about personal choice and growth and let each person experience his/her own life? Jesus never seemed so violent as the zealots out there that are the chief reason if anything that others find Christianity hard to swallow. They are a scourge in themselves and more deadly than any Atheist writing a book will ever be to the religion.



Yeah see did you see my next post. You should try reading it thank you very much.

I don't know what's wrong with you people and religion. I mean if you guys are okay with all of this other stuff like having a baby before your married before you can take care of one. You should be okay with Christians!

Not all of us are bad. All atheists aren't bad either. I'm just against what they believe okay? Why do you always have to go after people who have their own beliefs. Just cause you think there's nothing after you die doesn't mean we do. We try to give people hope for after they die unlike the people who have no idea.

What's wrong with believing your own beliefs. It's as dumb as the school teacher's teddy bear being named Mohammad.

Unless you've had a personal experience with a CHRISTIAN not catholic, that has actually forced you into Christianity then be quiet!

[TheMuffinMan]

I'm sorry but look, as a Christian one of my duties is not to conform to the World.

"conform to the world".....what does that even mean!?

Another one is to see through deception. I mean it doesn't matter if it is a kid book or movie! It matters what message is getting through to kids.

Religion itself is deception, you clearly didn't see through that one, eh?

His Dark Materials are no more a trick than Star Wars, or Harry Potter. Unless, you want to say that similarly, The Chronicles of Narnia are a blatant and devious trick of equal standards.

You say "it matters whats getting through to the kids"...then why is it suddenly okay for blatant Christian propaganda to be tossed around? You should be taking the same stance on The Bible, or The Chronicles of Narnia, or any book with Christian values, riiiiight?

when I was younger they like to get answers to questions that many people can't answer like,"When is the world going to end," and,"How old is God?"

And how is "The Golden Compass" any different from that? All "The Golden Compass" does is allow us to question what we've been told, it allows us to experience the doubts that everyone feels at any one point, it lets you read an adventure and draw conclusions for yourself, or make peace with your own beliefs.

Why do you always have to go after people who have their own beliefs. [...] What's wrong with believing your own beliefs.

This is funny because the Christian faith makes a habit out of condemning everyone to Hell if they don't share in their beliefs, trying to convert as many people as possible, and has had a history of War that could have been prevented if Christians were okay with "letting everyone have their own beliefs"

We try to give people hope for after they die unlike the people who have no idea.

And Condemn everyone to Hell if they don't believe in what you do? Mmhmm

Religion isn't a peace of mind, or a hope for an afterlife. It's nothing more than a burden on the life you're living right now, which makes you dance for the puppetmaster in the hopes that there's some magical land after you die, that way you forget about living this life and instead worry and hope that there's one after this one where things will be better.

What's wrong with believing your own beliefs. It's as dumb as the school teacher's teddy bear being named Mohammad.

And how is this dumb? It's nothing more than a name.

Should I not be allowed to be named Christopher?

[{Vena_Sera}_ The Anti{Saint}]

well i dont know if any one said this but, i am christan and i listened to the commercials and it comes down to me as if all they are really trying to kill God.
" there is only one golden compass left and who ever can read it can rule the universe."

still i listen to rock music and emo music and dont really care what they say, but coming to finding an item to kill God, it makes no sence.

yes i know that i have bad grammer but i know that others can read it. if yall need help reading it ask me what i mean.

" his dark materials" the series that the movie was based of of may be a book and there are books that do talk about this but movies will can be boycotted by religous members and then a big debate will start.

[TheMuffinMan]

and it comes down to me as if all they are really trying to kill God.

This is funny because it's incorrect, as The Golden Compass doesn't involve the plotpoint of "killing God" at all, and it doesn't come into effect until the 3rd book in the series

" there is only one golden compass left and who ever can read it can rule the universe."

Again, incorrect, the Alethiometer doesn't do anything of that sort.

Even if it did, would you say Lord of the Rings is evil? "The One Ring" and all?

but coming to finding an item to kill God, it makes no sence.

The Alethiometer doesn't "kill God", and it's an actual device from ancient Greek times that was believed to be able to "read truth". Which is precisely what it does in the series, the person who can read the Alethiometer can sense the truth in the world.

[Repliku]

Yeah see did you see my next post. You should try reading it thank you very much.

I don't know what's wrong with you people and religion. I mean if you guys are okay with all of this other stuff like having a baby before your married before you can take care of one. You should be okay with Christians!

Not all of us are bad. All atheists aren't bad either. I'm just against what they believe okay? Why do you always have to go after people who have their own beliefs. Just cause you think there's nothing after you die doesn't mean we do. We try to give people hope for after they die unlike the people who have no idea.

What's wrong with believing your own beliefs. It's as dumb as the school teacher's teddy bear being named Mohammad.

Unless you've had a personal experience with a CHRISTIAN not catholic, that has actually forced you into Christianity then be quiet!

"When you look at organized religion of whatever sort – whether it's Christianity in all its variants, or whether it's Islam or some forms of extreme Hinduism – wherever you see organized religion and priesthoods and power, you see cruelty and tyranny and repression. It's almost a universal law.

It's not just Christianity I'm getting at. The reason that the forms of religion in the books seem to be Christian is because that's the world I'm familiar with. That's the world I grew up in and I knew. If I had been brought up as an orthodox Jew, I would no doubt find things to criticize in that religion. But I don't know that world as well as I know Christianity." -- Phillip Pullman

I did read both of your posts, and do not appreciate on being called out on it, thank you. You obviously though did not read mine. I said Christian Extremists are the problem here; NOT Christians themselves. Now you go doing exactly the route of pulling out the 'Martyr Card' and do not get what I am saying. Read Pullman's own quote. His problem is with Organized Religion or really any fascist group that comes together, has tyranny and tries to control people. Christian ZEALOTS think that Christians are so weak that they can't watch a movie and feel it should be boycotted and all because it has some anti-Christian messages but they miss the point that it is NOT anti-Christian. It is anti-theocratic. Because the books were written in a setting of Europe, what religion is going to be mentioned and utilized? Christianity seems to make sense as if it was Islam or Judaism, Hindu or Buddhism etc...people would believe it was something of a statement against immigrants etc who did not believe as the local people did. The point of the books and the movies was NOT to say that Christianity itself was bad, but that an evil theocracy could be because people would not look and see how tyrannical and rotten their leaders who teach them worship are.

So, in the end, I hold no views against Christians themselves and in reality I don't think Pullman does either, despite him being Atheist. Christians really need to stop hating on Atheists so darn much because they MAKE them a threat when the true enemy to any religious believer should be those zealot fanatics that do things in the name of a deity that is simply extreme, takes away life, privileges and joys for anyone else and oppresses them. The true disease that can be creeping in any religion is that people cover for these others who consider everyone else to be pathetic little sheep. I do not attack Christianity. I attack fundamentalist view points that feel they can let people watch Christian things all of the time and force it down our throats, and many of us who do not believe do not utter much of a complaint at all....and the next thing you know, something that says anything negative with the word 'Christianity' in it is automatically stood against by mass forms of people, people are ostracized clearly as you can even see in the people's posts here, and attempts to boycott it and forces of negativity arise by CHURCHES. Who are these people who can tell others to NOT watch something? Christians and others are NOT stupid. We have cognitive minds and can deduce things for ourselves. If you do not want to see the movie, fine, don't. No one should tell others that they cannot see it because it goes against their religious belief. No one should use religion as a weapon which is done all of the time and people get away with it because religion is deemed to be more protected than other human rights.

Also, I dealt with Protestants and Catholics, and mostly Protestants that were more determined to thrust Christianity on me as well as Southern Baptists. So truly, you don't even know the faces of zealots masquerading around in your own area and it does not bode well for you to assume that one is always speaking of the Catholic Church because no, I certainly was not. Protestant extremists are also the ones who are raising mass groups of people to believe that the moon still shines its own light and denounce all science.

Lastly, do not tell others to be quiet. You want your voice heard so expect others to be heard or do not come and sit at the little debate table. If you do not like what is being said, try responding with actual material to support things. Your viewpoints on 'saving people' are your own as well, and though I disagree with you, guess what? I'm not going to tell you that you are less than me or try to raise myself on a pedestal and tell you to shut up. It IS what you believe and this is the point of the whole argument, isn't it? What people believe in should not determine what OTHERS can watch. Religion is a PERSONAL choice. It is not something you have the right to silence, nor to say you can silence other people's opinions on it. You believe what you want. Let others watch, see, read, feel etc what they want to, whether they are Christian or not. If anything, my posts are actually trying to defend those Christians that have free-thinking minds and are getting abused by people who deem them too weak-willed to handle watching a freaking movie. This is exactly what Pullman is saying. Organized theocratic or zealous groups in power can become corrupt and no one should have that power to take away personal freedom of thought. If you do not agree with that, do not toss that Martyr Card out again on the table. It simply will not be acknowledged.

I'm sorry but look, as a Christian one of my duties is not to conform to the World.

And rethink that. Some of us don't want to live in your little world of conversion and that equates to slavery.

[Darkwatch]

Yeah see did you see my next post. You should try reading it thank you very much.

I don't know what's wrong with you people and religion. I mean if you guys are okay with all of this other stuff like having a baby before your married before you can take care of one. You should be okay with Christians!
lol Are you saying that being threatened with going to hell; to live and to suffer for the rest of eternity, is JUST AS EASY TO HANDLE as having a baby?

Please, rethink your statements.

Not all of us are bad. All atheists aren't bad either. I'm just against what they believe okay? Why do you always have to go after people who have their own beliefs. Just cause you think there's nothing after you die doesn't mean we do. We try to give people hope for after they die unlike the people who have no idea.1. Yes. YOU are against it and don't care what others think. But look at the globe--the HISTORY of all Christianity. Bloodshed, murder, depression--it's all there. *You* may not do those things, and may not promote it. But the religious leaders do. THAT is what the whole point is.

2. Yes. Having hope after you die is a very, very nice though. I would honestly love to believe that we'd all go to heaven after we die. Sadly, I don't. Because once the evidence of the religion itself is weighed, there's high odds that the concept of the after world is nothing more than a fairy-tale idea. Besides, would staring at God for the rest of your life really be any better than eternal darkness? Ask yourself that. lol

What's wrong with believing your own beliefs. It's as dumb as the school teacher's teddy bear being named Mohammad. How is it dumb that a teddy bear has the name Mohammad? :/ And there is nothing wrong with having your own beliefs. It's just the religious establishment that pushes it on people, and makes a lot of non-believer's annoyed; as well as quite angry. You can have your belief, but leave me with mine. That is all I mean to imply. It works BOTH WAYS. Atheists could really care less about Christianity. Sure, if it weren't here things might be a little less masss-influencd, but it's not a big deal.

Unless you've had a personal experience with a CHRISTIAN not catholic, that has actually forced you into Christianity then be quiet!Catholocism is the same thing as Christianity. It's just a sect, lol.

[♥AL90♥]

Guys I'm not going to push you on this because it's your choice.

I'm just saying I'm not giving this guy money for saying what I believe isn't true.

That's all to it there's really no need to anylize what I say unless your thinking that what I say is true (or if your slow :p)

Anyway it's your problem if I don't wanna see the movie and you guys are like your a bigot because the people LIKE you push things on other people who don't believe in religion.

I don't like to push people so I don't. It's as simple as that.

btw catholics are people who believe in God but they thank Mary for having Jesus. Not that different but it has a couple more differences.

[SӓiḺØr N.Ø.I.$.E]

i love this movie and thus i started to read the books and i think as normal the catholic church is over reacting (and im roman catholic)
but all in all i get where there coming from its just them being like an overproctecting mother that doesnt want there childeren to go on the wrong path
but like most mothers...they dont trust us that much

[Sara]

Actually...

I have actually READ some of these Christian reviews. Not from Yahoo where all the bible thumpers *no offense to anyone* are typing that it's the devil and satan will rise and cause a burning inferno...

But actual reviewers from the christian websites. They actually enjoyed the movie, and believe it or not... I'm not lying here... Are PULLING beliefs from the movie and comparing it to god.

Another part I found interesting in my own POV is that they have read all the books. And they actually do say what happens and encourage kids to read it, just for them to think and learn. They point out several facts from the book that at the end don't make it sound as "athiest" if you will as what the others are saying.

And Pullman isn't an athiest. If he was, he wouldn't believe in God. He might want to be, but he's not, I say he's an extreme agnostic. A questioner in the faith and against god and his beliefs.

In any case, it still hasn't changed my mind about the parents and bible thumpers who want to basically ban the movie because of their beliefs and try to impose their beliefs about not seeing the movie...

But it also makes it interesting in my POV that a lot of the critics, CHRISTIAN and Catholic critics are taking this a lot better and even saying: "Hey, bring the kids and let them figure it out themselves."

It's something in my own POV that should be considered. After all, God did give you the chance to think. If he didn't, we wouldn't have a chance to think at all, period. It's called free will to decide what to do with it. And like it has been said...

If you seriously think that you aren't going to make it through one movie without holding your beliefs. You have to wonder if you even had the right beliefs in the first place.

And that's what I think the church is afraid of.

And yes, at the end of the last book, they do "kill God." Believe me or not. But even the critics said themselves that they had a reason and a right to. Not the same as what people believe.

Take my opinion, or leave it.

[♥AL90♥]

Actually...

I have actually READ some of these Christian reviews. Not from Yahoo where all the bible thumpers *no offense to anyone* are typing that it's the devil and satan will rise and cause a burning inferno...

But actual reviewers from the christian websites. They actually enjoyed the movie, and believe it or not... I'm not lying here... Are PULLING beliefs from the movie and comparing it to god.

Another part I found interesting in my own POV is that they have read all the books. And they actually do say what happens and encourage kids to read it, just for them to think and learn. They point out several facts from the book that at the end don't make it sound as "athiest" if you will as what the others are saying.

And Pullman isn't an athiest. If he was, he wouldn't believe in God. He might want to be, but he's not, I say he's an extreme agnostic. A questioner in the faith and against god and his beliefs.

In any case, it still hasn't changed my mind about the parents and bible thumpers who want to basically ban the movie because of their beliefs and try to impose their beliefs about not seeing the movie...

But it also makes it interesting in my POV that a lot of the critics, CHRISTIAN and Catholic critics are taking this a lot better and even saying: "Hey, bring the kids and let them figure it out themselves."

It's something in my own POV that should be considered. After all, God did give you the chance to think. If he didn't, we wouldn't have a chance to think at all, period. It's called free will to decide what to do with it. And like it has been said...

If you seriously think that you aren't going to make it through one movie without holding your beliefs. You have to wonder if you even had the right beliefs in the first place.

And that's what I think the church is afraid of.

And yes, at the end of the last book, they do "kill God." Believe me or not. But even the critics said themselves that they had a reason and a right to. Not the same as what people believe.

Take my opinion, or leave it.



I think what the churches are afraid of is that people think that they can "kill God". Where I live the movie theater area is backed up (which is bad for me because that's where everything is). I think that's basically it. After talking with people. I'm still not going to see the movie because I want to go see "Enchanted" because I'm young at heart and I want to see a Disney movie.

Also the annoying kid at school who is a "know it all" will kill me.

I don't exactly like the fact that the guy's purpose in this book is to impose that God can be killed (basically). But the movie might be better

I'm just gonna wait until it's on Nick.

[micketymike]

the authot said himself that his main reason he wrote the book was so people didnt beileve in god

[Sara]

That's kinda been hammered down, micketymike.


Several times until it's been beaten to death. And the question is: "So what...?"

What if he wants to teach people to be god haters, so what if he wants to make everyone hate god and kill him. He can't make them think it. He can only impose his thoughts and beliefs.

My dad is going to spend two friggin hours driving me home lecturing me about the movie and the bible and how everyone's going to burn to hell and Satan is going to rise from the depths of it to consume us all...

He's Evangelical, extremist, if you will.

But that won't change my own POV, my own belief about what I got from the movie, or the books, or whatever the hell else I do in my life. Does that make me bad...?

No.

Does it make my dad bad...?

No, it doesn't.

Some people might see it and take it as something where they hate god. Will that really kill this planet and make god drop dead? Most likely not. Even in the books, Pullman makes it hard to kill God. It's not like all of them say: "We hate you, die." And he keels over.

It's also a parrallel universe. And the god from their universe compared to ours is completely different.

Kids have, as much as adults...

To follow their OWN POV, their OWN belief. Parents and churches and everyone else who impose on that makes it no better than the books where Pullman puts the church as the villains.

That goes for anyone, scientists, philosophers, anyone...

Pullman wants these kids to think, so what if he wants them to wonder about church and god and if they're evil. If I listened to my dad about 99.9% of the time I would be against this movie also. But I have been allowed to think and question and wonder about it from my mom's side.

And it has allowed me to decide and reason for my own on my own POV. And yes, I'm agnostic, but I am a strong believer in God, I just hate the church for the imposing beliefs, their own POV, including the bible. Which was written 200 years after Jesus's death, fyi...

About what they try to impose. I believe in what I believe in myself. And I'm damned proud of it.

[Darkwatch]

I'm just saying I'm not giving this guy money for saying what I believe isn't true.......

Have you been under a rock this whole thread?

[Sara]

Easy, Darkwatch, she's allowed to state her opinion as are you. I suggest you also keep those posts longer before you get a warning. Same for you, MicketyMike. Write about your own thoughts and POV instead of just others. Just a heads-up.

In any case, I posted my opinion. I wanted to get that across to Darkwatch and Micketymike. >>

[TheMuffinMan]

I'm just saying I'm not giving this guy money for saying what I believe isn't true.


Except that the book series doesn't do that, as it takes place in an ALTERNATE universe, and the religion in the series isn't Christianity, it's "Magistrium"


I don't exactly like the fact that the guy's purpose in this book is to impose that God can be killed (basically).

If you read the book series, you would see, for one, they do not "kill God", The Authority dies of Old Age, and you find out that he isn't even God, he's nothing more than the First Angel who considered himself superior to the others and decided that since he was the first, he should be the Ruler

After The Authority dies, the book actually leaves open the concept that the Great Creator God does exist, but he was not The Authority as the Magistrium believes, but that he may be out somewhere in the cosmos

Which sort of relays some of Pullman's own conclusions about Religion: God may exist, but in his eyes he simply can't feel his presence.

It's also funny because there was some guy apart of a Christian group that eventually became good friends with Pullman and referred to him as "the most Christian-like Atheist I ever met"

[♥AL90♥]

That's kinda been hammered down, micketymike.


Several times until it's been beaten to death. And the question is: "So what...?"

What if he wants to teach people to be god haters, so what if he wants to make everyone hate god and kill him. He can't make them think it. He can only impose his thoughts and beliefs.

My dad is going to spend two friggin hours driving me home lecturing me about the movie and the bible and how everyone's going to burn to hell and Satan is going to rise from the depths of it to consume us all...

He's Evangelical, extremist, if you will.

But that won't change my own POV, my own belief about what I got from the movie, or the books, or whatever the hell else I do in my life. Does that make me bad...?

No.

Does it make my dad bad...?

No, it doesn't.

Some people might see it and take it as something where they hate god. Will that really kill this planet and make god drop dead? Most likely not. Even in the books, Pullman makes it hard to kill God. It's not like all of them say: "We hate you, die." And he keels over.

It's also a parrallel universe. And the god from their universe compared to ours is completely different.

Kids have, as much as adults...

To follow their OWN POV, their OWN belief. Parents and churches and everyone else who impose on that makes it no better than the books where Pullman puts the church as the villains.

That goes for anyone, scientists, philosophers, anyone...

Pullman wants these kids to think, so what if he wants them to wonder about church and god and if they're evil. If I listened to my dad about 99.9% of the time I would be against this movie also. But I have been allowed to think and question and wonder about it from my mom's side.

And it has allowed me to decide and reason for my own on my own POV. And yes, I'm agnostic, but I am a strong believer in God, I just hate the church for the imposing beliefs, their own POV, including the bible. Which was written 200 years after Jesus's death, fyi...

About what they try to impose. I believe in what I believe in myself. And I'm damned proud of it.




It's true...He can only impose the thoughts on people.

What many people are worried about is that kids believe basically anything exp(Easter Bunny, the Stork, Santa Claus *I'm sorry kids*) That's pretty much it. But it was rated PG13 so lots of kids probably wont be looking.

I think that's why it's PG13 (at least in my area) ^_^

Muffin Man I'm not reading the book... >_<

[White_Rook]

I'm sorry but look, as a Christian one of my duties is not to conform to the World. Another one is to see through deception.

Well you know that identifying yourself with a group (i.e. religious in your case) and acting in accordance with it's standards is conformity right?

Also please define deception, it's a two way street if your presenting it in a faith-based sense.

[Repliku]

It's true...He can only impose the thoughts on people.

What many people are worried about is that kids believe basically anything exp(Easter Bunny, the Stork, Santa Claus *I'm sorry kids*) That's pretty much it. But it was rated PG13 so lots of kids probably wont be looking.

I think that's why it's PG13 (at least in my area) ^_^

Muffin Man I'm not reading the book... >_<

You don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to. If YOU personally do not wish to see a movie or read some books out there, of course you don't. You have totally missed the issue all along and aren't reading into what people are saying.

YOU and EVERYONE else on this planet has the right to do what you WANT to without SOMEONE else (and I capitalize these not because I am angry but to try to get you to see the words you keep missing) or a GROUP of people telling you that the thing is evil and you CANNOT watch it.

That is the truest issue here that people have a problem with. Atheists and anyone else, including Christians, who want to see the movie SHOULD be allowed to. They should not receive peer pressure, threats from churches on condemning people to Hell, and being ostracized from their own places of worship, etc. They should not feel that they, by just watching a stupid movie, suddenly have to make a decision between 1. religion 2. a social group versus going and seeing a movie! This is what is wrong here. No one is pushing the movie as in 'go see it' and you must. No, the point here is that churches, both Protestant and Catholic, are trying to FORCE others to not see the movie with a power they should never have.

I'm just saying I'm not giving this guy money for saying what I believe isn't true.

So, this statement here is valid. You aren't giving money to a guy for saying what you believe isn't true. You have every right to, just as I have every right to turn off the tons of Christian shows and not watch them because I think it's fake. You make a choice and stand by it. You get that right.

What's wrong with believing your own beliefs. It's as dumb as the school teacher's teddy bear being named Mohammad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in YOUR own beliefs unless they come to harm others. However, there is nothing wrong with that teacher deciding the outcome of a vote of Islamic following children and permitting them to name a bear Muhammad, which was named after a kid too. Because, however, she does not believe in Islam, and the children decided on the vote and she cleared it, she was punished. This is the problem of when religion goes bad. She made a mistake out of ignorance and her own beliefs weren't respected or acknowledged.

I'm sorry but look, as a Christian one of my duties is not to conform to the World.

If this -is- your belief, you speak from a perspective that says you do not care about anyone else's freedom of will and choice. It is amusing that you miss the point in the end that others here are displeased at SOME churches (and not just the Catholics) and some radical views that say they should force people to boycott a film. It is the point that they are using a power over others they should not have the force to exert. This is not against Christians that say to themselves they don't want to see a movie and so don't. NO ONE is forcing you to go see it. You just refuse to see the issue at hand which people are upset about which is if they WANT to see it and you don't, it doesn't give you the right to make their lives a living hell for it.

You don't want to see a movie = you don''t.
You don't want others to see the movie = who are you to say that?
You want to conform the world in your image = you take away others freedoms.

So who here is being forceful of their nature on others? Rethink things and see what the true argument is about before you tell others they are so wrong. No one is saying YOU can't believe as you want to when it comes to your right to have God or not. We are telling you that just because you don't like something, don't tell US what to do and follow your way. If I want to see a movie, I should be able to. If a Christian wants to see a movie or read some books, let the person be and don't make that person feel like crap. If anything in all of this, I feel sorry for the good Christian people who just want to see a movie and the Bible Thumpers that say no one has a free will and they will be easily led to temptation blah blah need to shut up. There are other churches, as Sara said, which are trying to do other things and bravo to them. They aren't closed minded bigots.

[Sara]

To add to that, Repliku, some of the Christian and catholic churches enjoyed the movie. The quotes I stated are from a christian website. Not all catholics are going to hate this movie. Out of four reviews, I only read one that was actually saying: "Well, I'm strongly against it because it's a lead-in for killing God." Even he said at the end the kids can see it, but be talked about it afterwards.

Not all of the people from those churches are evil, just the extremists are the ones who blow this out of proportion.

[SӓiḺØr N.Ø.I.$.E]

You don't HAVE to do anything you don't want to. If YOU personally do not wish to see a movie or read some books out there, of course you don't. You have totally missed the issue all along and aren't reading into what people are saying.

YOU and EVERYONE else on this planet has the right to do what you WANT to without SOMEONE else (and I capitalize these not because I am angry but to try to get you to see the words you keep missing) or a GROUP of people telling you that the thing is evil and you CANNOT watch it.

That is the truest issue here that people have a problem with. Atheists and anyone else, including Christians, who want to see the movie SHOULD be allowed to. They should not receive peer pressure, threats from churches on condemning people to Hell, and being ostracized from their own places of worship, etc. They should not feel that they, by just watching a stupid movie, suddenly have to make a decision between 1. religion 2. a social group versus going and seeing a movie! This is what is wrong here. No one is pushing the movie as in 'go see it' and you must. No, the point here is that churches, both Protestant and Catholic, are trying to FORCE others to not see the movie with a power they should never have.



So, this statement here is valid. You aren't giving money to a guy for saying what you believe isn't true. You have every right to, just as I have every right to turn off the tons of Christian shows and not watch them because I think it's fake. You make a choice and stand by it. You get that right.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing in YOUR own beliefs unless they come to harm others. However, there is nothing wrong with that teacher deciding the outcome of a vote of Islamic following children and permitting them to name a bear Muhammad, which was named after a kid too. Because, however, she does not believe in Islam, and the children decided on the vote and she cleared it, she was punished. This is the problem of when religion goes bad. She made a mistake out of ignorance and her own beliefs weren't respected or acknowledged.



If this -is- your belief, you speak from a perspective that says you do not care about anyone else's freedom of will and choice. It is amusing that you miss the point in the end that others here are displeased at SOME churches (and not just the Catholics) and some radical views that say they should force people to boycott a film. It is the point that they are using a power over others they should not have the force to exert. This is not against Christians that say to themselves they don't want to see a movie and so don't. NO ONE is forcing you to go see it. You just refuse to see the issue at hand which people are upset about which is if they WANT to see it and you don't, it doesn't give you the right to make their lives a living hell for it.

You don't want to see a movie = you don''t.
You don't want others to see the movie = who are you to say that?
You want to conform the world in your image = you take away others freedoms.

So who here is being forceful of their nature on others? Rethink things and see what the true argument is about before you tell others they are so wrong. No one is saying YOU can't believe as you want to when it comes to your right to have God or not. We are telling you that just because you don't like something, don't tell US what to do and follow your way. If I want to see a movie, I should be able to. If a Christian wants to see a movie or read some books, let the person be and don't make that person feel like crap. If anything in all of this, I feel sorry for the good Christian people who just want to see a movie and the Bible Thumpers that say no one has a free will and they will be easily led to temptation blah blah need to shut up. There are other churches, as Sara said, which are trying to do other things and bravo to them. They aren't closed minded bigots.

i <3 Repliku's comments there always so long! :3
but yes i might be roman catholic but i dont feel that i must impose my ideals and values on others....there for if u dont belive in God...thats ur right "free will" and if u do belive in God thats ur right too
i think its bad to reject storys, ideas, and things for people that dont have the same beliefs as we do

its like the f-ing crusades all over again "make them convert or kill 'em" we should just let people belive what they want to damn it! then maybe we wont have any wars but alas there are people that are so easily threated or "were right your wrong so come with us or burn in hell" mentality

so in conclution

free will

thank you

[Darkwatch]

Oh god, Repliku, that post was so sexy. xDTo add to that, Repliku, some of the Christian and catholic churches enjoyed the movie. The quotes I stated are from a christian website. Not all catholics are going to hate this movie. Out of four reviews, I only read one that was actually saying: "Well, I'm strongly against it because it's a lead-in for killing God." Even he said at the end the kids can see it, but be talked about it afterwards.

Not all of the people from those churches are evil, just the extremists are the ones who blow this out of proportion.
Wouldn't "evil" be a bad term to use in this case, Sara? lol

[Sara]

Dark...

One more sentence like that from you and you'll get a warning. Seriously, post some depth for a change.

And maybe it is or isn't. Evil has a very broad definition that can be brought up in another conversation where it's not spam.

I'm just saying that their POV about the movie and books is considered evil because they are trying to impose their own thoughts and beliefs to others. The same way in some cases they did in the book.

[Repliku]

Just so people know, because it has been asked a few times, the movie is rated PG-13 since it does have quite a bit of violence in it. So, really, it was not intended for little children any way, unlike Chronicles of Narnia etc. The Dark Materials books also are meant for teenagers on up and have more adultish themes to them. So, the movie was placed at the appropriate rating to begin with.

Thought I'd just toss this in there so people aren't going on thinking the film was rated PG or G. =:)

[iwantedtoexplode]

What many people are worried about is that kids believe basically anything exp(Easter Bunny, the Stork, Santa Claus *I'm sorry kids*)

It's true, children are pretty malleable, but I don't think this would apply for the movie. Children are told straight out that Santa Claus (and friends) exist, that is why they believe. However, in this case, they are not told that Christianity is bulls***, it is insinuated. Little children don't pick up symbolism. As they grow, they may see the parallels, but at that point, they will already be mature Christians that can't be swayed by messages in a mere kids movie.

[Darkwatch]

Dark...

One more sentence like that from you and you'll get a warning. Seriously, post some depth for a change. Pay attention to the response below >_>

And maybe it is or isn't. Evil has a very broad definition that can be brought up in another conversation where it's not spam. You're right. Clearly you didn't interpret my suggestion and question correctly. Let me explain:

By the definition you expressed you were implying that the people of some churches (in this case, "extremists) were "evil". Yes. I fully understand that evil can be taken several ways. However, I was merely saying that using such a profound and versatile dynamic on that word was very odd to do, especially since you hardly explained what you meant after expressing such fact.

I wasn't implying, saying, or trying to make you think that I was being disrespectful or unintelligent. I don't know why you couldn't just PM me/IM me to tell me that. <_<;

I'm just saying that their POV about the movie and books is considered evil because they are trying to impose their own thoughts and beliefs to others. The same way in some cases they did in the book.And that certainly makes the people themselves evil too, right?


There's a little more depth for you.

[Repliku]

And that certainly makes the people themselves evil too, right?

Nah, I would say it makes them deranged and living in a fantasy world and not getting what is truly bad or good in this life. To question beliefs or pose movies or books on it is not 'evil' of course. For others to say it is wrong would be just wrong; not evil either. Someday people are going to learn they can't force their wills down other people's throats and then one of the biggest causes of war, which is motivating people to do things out of religion versus another held belief, will be gone. It should never be an excuse in our day and age and yet it is sadly still a reason. I'm borderline tempted to call these people who see this as more evil than murder, rape, aggravated assaults, abuse etc as messed in the head and needing psychological help.

Perhaps that's too strong, but I see so many negatives that happen simply because of the power of what one group believes. Whether people want to admit it or not, Christianity still kills because of these zealots that go around passive aggressively attacking. They can't get away with 'holy wars' so much anymore and drag people from their homes and all, but they can convince children that they are evil, low lives, kick them out of their home, etc for having a different mind set or because they are gay, exploring other religions, Atheist, sick, etc. This can and does result in suicide and spree killings more than video games will ever do.

Fundamentalists are a danger and I wish more regular good Christians would rise up and tell them to stop and give them the help they actually need, but people seem too afraid to do anything but voice opinions that they are going too extreme. If someone is a nut job, he/she is and this reverence to the point that they are 'religious' doesn't make them not capable of harm. They get a slap on the wrist for their mental persuasions, assaults and their acts of destroying other people's things or chasing people out in mobs. It's disgusting to me. Other Christians are just fine but I really wish they'd open their eyes to the atrocities these others do because this sets up the young people with the wrong images of themselves and others and it takes a lot to fight the bigotry instilled so that everyone who is a naysayer of the religion is not heard to hate the people who follow it. I had to deal with fundamentalist religion enough on my own and my mother trying to force me to it. Fortunately I had the willpower to not listen to her hateful words so much. Others can't do that and I cannot say I do not bear my scars from it, or hearing other fundies say at the church table when asked 'what would you do if your child is not Christian' ...their responses were 'I'd kill the kid', 'I'd disown the kid' etc. I was 16 then and horrified and walked out after telling them to 'turn the other cheek as Jesus said to do' because that -was- horrible.

I think in the end my biggest issue with this is that these fanatical believers keep attacking Atheists and Christians too. They keep voicing 'if I don't want to watch the movie, I don't want to!' and others of us with rational minds will say 'of course you don't have to. No one is going to force you to see something you don't want to'. However, they cannot see their passive aggressive attack on other Christians to force them to 'behave' or else they have permission to treat them like crap and remove them from their social status in the circles of their places of worship and possibly to lose friends etc. So, they absolutely cannot see here that it is them causing all of the problem by declaring boycotts and saying things to make others depressed. Religion should -not- oppress people. This isn't about saying regular Christians oppress, and at this point I think sadly it IS the regular Christians being oppressed, along with everyone else, while the fanatics play the Martyr Card and try to say 'everyone hates us, boo-hoo'. That is why I think these people have some dementia going on and aren't with reality. Of course, people's reverences for religion provides an immunity to these people so that zealots can continue to do things and though laws have prevented some things, words still have a power over some and sway them to listen and I just don't think these people should be allowed that power of dominion. In the U.S. we have an astounding number of Christians and I think to see change, it's going to take them to put their foots down and say what is 'too much' with these people because every time any other group does we are suddenly believed to be hateful, evil, and these fundamentalists now toss out the term 'anti-Christian' and try to equal it with anti-semetism and act as though we all plan on tossing them in furnaces. That just is an insult to the Holocaust and it's just plain untrue.

As I said elsewhere, the biggest harm to Christianity won't be from any Atheist because you can't make someone change their minds etc. It will be from these fundamentalists that no one is doing a thing about and letting them teach our kids to be dumb, biased and unnerving. Excuse my long rant, and if I've offended the Christian folk, it wasn't my intention to. I just really am seeing a horrible lot pertaining to this and other acts fundies do, and am just perhaps a bit miffed and needed a good vent. So few others will say it, but I think quite a few people feel it even if they are afraid to voice it.

[Sara]

I agree with you, Repliku.

I was lucky, my mom married my dad at a young age, but she realized when I was little that my dad was an fundamentalist, she kept him from doing things too extreme. I was also driven away from the church by his lectures and his things about god. Anything you talk to him about brings the comparison to religion on it.

I also seen the times with 60 minutes. There was a Evangelical church camp that was shut down last summer or so that the fact is they were literally brainwashing the kids, one investigator said it was the same as an Alkaida camp.

If you look on the news, molestations, brainwashing, banning of books and movies, and other things that the church is hiding, or publicly stating because they think it'll make everyone to burn in hell. It makes you wonder who seriously is the one who is causing, in their pov: "the world to fall apart."

Kids should be able to think and do for themselves. My mom was creeped out by the ending of the books, but she still was fine with me reading it. My dad didn't even want to me to see the movie. I learned from my mom acceptance and understanding. I learned from my dad to avoid religion and to keep an eye out for any problems with it.

It could've gone the other way, but I wonder if it did... Or if my mom wasn't firmly against my dad doing anything like my dad might've planned...

What would've happened.

In any case, movies and books like The Golden Compass brings out the extremists. Amazingly enough, everyone else is willing to enjoy a movie, even people who are from the church, and take it as it is.

Free will seems to be a forgotten thing now in some parts of the churches. It's sad when you think about it.

[lostheart]

Hi. I haven't posted anything on this site, so cut me a little slack.
Anyway, I'm on a fansite titled His Dark Materials.org which is a fansite for The Golden Compass as well as the other nooks in teh trilogy. I support the books because they have great themes for Christians as well as any one else of another faith. i myself am Christian and I don't follow the Roman Catholic's opinion on the trilogy.
What makes me mad is when people say something negative about the book when they haven't read any of them. Now, how can you argue about something you don't know about? The other members on the fan site agree, and we believe that the majority of people who believe this are being ignorant, but we respect their beliefs.
But in essence no, reading the books is not wrong.

[♥AL90♥]

To add to that, Repliku, some of the Christian and catholic churches enjoyed the movie. The quotes I stated are from a christian website. Not all catholics are going to hate this movie. Out of four reviews, I only read one that was actually saying: "Well, I'm strongly against it because it's a lead-in for killing God." Even he said at the end the kids can see it, but be talked about it afterwards.

Not all of the people from those churches are evil, just the extremists are the ones who blow this out of proportion.

I'm sorry I've only heard about it so I'm sorry people if I've offended you or something.

In my area of the world all the movie theaters were giving it like a 1 star and bad descriptions. The movie theaters are backed up though. Even so after a week the movie was gone from the theater. That was telling me something I guess.

If you guys want to see the movie. no problem. as for me...I'm not exactly a movie person anyway...

[11jones2]

i dont see why cruchs call its evil all it is is a person idea that he decied to make a book and then other people think it has a chance to make money and if cruch find it evil that ok but arnt we suppoues to repect others opines

[Shamdeo]

Well, in the case of Phillip Pullman, it wasn't merely the fact that he was an Atheist and wrote the book, it was that he denounced any sort of fantastical story that had some sort of Christian link or Christian author.

In the case of the Chronicles of Narnia, yes, there is a centrifugal character based on a Christian Jesus. However, the author ( C.S. Lewis ) was quoted to say that Aslan was not intended to be seen as Jesus or even allegory to Jesus and Christianity. He had merely stated that he wanted to experiment with a Christ-like figure in a fantasy setting. And this has been done countless times in other forms of medium, but Phillip Pullman has chosen to lead his Crusade primarly against Narnia.

Even J.R.R. Tolkien, a Christian who converted Lewis ( who was an Atheist before meeting his fellow Oxford colleague ) to Christianity was given the cold shoulder by Pullman, saying that The Lord of the Rings were nonsensical and a waste of his time.

It's really not that he's an Atheist that he has to be the antithesis of Narnia and Lord of the Rings, it's merely because he wants a fight to pick. In his "struggle" he's made baseless claims against Lewis and other Christian authors that have absolutely no standing whatsoever. I think that anyone who writes for children intelligently and creatively is a good person, and for him to so callously call these people immoral isn't winning any points in my book.

I have read the entire His Dark Materials trilogy and I did enjoy his storytelling, but suffice it to say, as an author I have little respect for Pullman.

[Crumpet]

Everytime i read the book, i keep thinking that the author has had something happened to them by the church and has become an anti christian and out to get them back, that's just my opinion though

[Repliku]

Many people know throughout history religion has been abused and it is played out in many movies, books and such. It's on the news how some people abuse religion and twist it to match their design. We have serial killers who used religion to herd in flocks of people that weren't very bright at the time and desperate for salvation and made people kill others or themselves. It is a theme in many things that go on today around the world and also in entertainment because of it.

While many people do not abuse a religion to justify things that the conscience would say are no-gos, many others do not. I think more the Dark Materials books aren't really bad and are just stories but you can derive a message from them as you can from so many other things. Religion in the wrong hands throughout history has been used as a weapon, but many others do not use it as such. This is why it is very important that anyone of a religion should pay attention to how others abuse it and stop giving them excuses.

If I ask many Christians why they believe in the Bible and God they will say because they believe their soul will go onto Heaven and it helps mold their lives in constructive ways and helps them find their path in life, probably in more colorful words. Most aren't out to want to harm others or judge them so harshly for not being a follower of it or doing any other acts that aren't deemed harmful to society. Now, if all were that way, there would be no problem with Christianity or any other religion in existence. Personal choice is great. It's when bad people though get power that -anything- in life can become tainted, including religion. It's happened before and will continue to happen repeatedly until people of the religions start stepping up and telling others to stop abusing the message they are conveying. Too many people though instead defend the religion and don't do a thing or ignore these bad people exist.

It really isn't that hard to also see who's abusing the religion and making people dumber. Ted Haggard, look up 'white collar crimes' in google and there are a number of religious men who can be viewed to have done crimes against others, the Topeka Kansas Southern Baptist group that is saying soldiers are gay and protesting funerals of soldiers, Bush has referenced as have the Muslims we go against, that God is one way or the other. Christian and Islamic Terrorists exist. Think back on how the corrupted priests messing with kids made Catholics feel and all. You can do a search for that on google too. Hate groups operate with using religion as a crutch because parts of the Bible can be taken to justify violence if someone wills it that way.

So this is kind of more what I would see Pullman's books as, if there's a theme to be taken from them at all. Because many followers of the group in the stories failed to notice how awful the situation really was, the group was able to get away with atrocious things. Even in the end, the 'God' that was masquerading as God wasn't the 'real' God. It was an angel that was corrupt. So he didn't kill 'God' in the books as people who haven't read them have tried to say. I hope this makes sense without offending everybody, but in the end that is more to me what the stories might represent than just an 'attack on religion' and someone who is sour over life experiences.


Sorry to go again with another essay but it was hard to convey this with the intentions I had if I made it shorter.

[timeless]

The film tried to stay away from the church, the northern lights/golden compass book however...

[8730]

The film tried to stay away from the church, the northern lights/golden compass book however...
Actually, the reason the film is as it is is because the producers wanted people to go see it. They would rather take away from the true meaning and strength of the books than lose profit. Hence why I always read the book before I see the film.

Religious people have every right to complain, they can picket all they want outside the cinemas. But then in turn I should be allowed to call the Bible a collection of fanciful fairy tails with very little to do with reality. A myth if you will.

If I said that I would probably get torn apart, fair ain't it?

[Repliku]

Actually, the reason the film is as it is is because the producers wanted people to go see it. They would rather take away from the true meaning and strength of the books than lose profit. Hence why I always read the book before I see the film.

Religious people have every right to complain, they can picket all they want outside the cinemas. But then in turn I should be allowed to call the Bible a collection of fanciful fairy tails with very little to do with reality. A myth if you will.

If I said that I would probably get torn apart, fair ain't it?

That's the problem right there. I bet the movie would have done better with others had it actually not bothered to cater to the Christians who would take it the wrong way. Note how they did take out a lot of the religious elements and yet still there were churches and groups actively declaring boycotts and doing things against it. Had they just left it the way it was intended and followed the books, I doubt there could have been anymore controversy than their was and also more people would have enjoyed the film rather than the watered down version we received.

I agree with your last statement as well. There is a serious bias to protect what is 'sacred' and if anyone speaks out against it they are labeled as haters of a people, when in reality it is not so.

[Xephos]

I saw part of that movie, Passion of christ but what does this have to do with the Golden compass?

[Cariad]

Ive read the book, and as the trilogy progresses it does put the church in a bad light and makes it seem as the enemy. However the church should not be worrying about how it makes people see them.. after all its just a fictional movie and not real. Pullman had freedom of speech to say those things, and create this story which made the church look evil.

Oh dear Im rambling, I'd be surprised if anybody gets me. :S

[Lady Beatrice]

I heard that somewhere in the second book, they literally kill God. I don't know though...I just...I'd rather not bother with it. There are other movies/books out there that have no controversy stuck to them.

[8730]

I heard that somewhere in the second book, they literally kill God. I don't know though...I just...I'd rather not bother with it. There are other movies/books out there that have no controversy stuck to them.
That is the third book and it is not God as such. Controversy makes things interesting, it can force you to step back and look at the way you live your life, think and what you believe and maybe reconsider.

I'm all for controversy, it helps us improve our lives and remind us what is right.

[Lady Beatrice]

That is the third book and it is not God as such. Controversy makes things interesting, it can force you to step back and look at the way you live your life, think and what you believe and maybe reconsider.

I'm all for controversy, it helps us improve our lives and remind us what is right.

I guess...I just dont like going out of my to think about stuff like that -.-'. I think about stuff intensely just with it being presented to me.

[Fallout]

Overall, it is attacked by Christians due to its nature and the person who wrote the book..

First off, the author is an athiest. And, if the book has themes of 'the church' being evil, it doesn't look good if an athiest is writing that. Even if it is an 'alternate reality'.

[Repliku]

Overall, it is attacked by Christians due to its nature and the person who wrote the book..

First off, the author is an athiest. And, if the book has themes of 'the church' being evil, it doesn't look good if an athiest is writing that. Even if it is an 'alternate reality'.

Yeah, but that's the problem. It can be attacked because he's an Atheist, even though the books do not technically kill God. However, if anyone of any other religion or non-believer says they don't like something of Christianity and don't want it shoved down our throats we are told we are going to Hell and condemned.

It gets very old that SOME Christians have killed so many people, done all sorts of atrocities to others and tried to rape science etc, but yet if someone speaks out against the immoral actions, they are speaking out suddenly against ALL Christians. This isn't what is going on here. If someone wants someone to move a religious symbol from the side of the road because an accident happens on the street because people can't see cross traffic, it's not an attack on Christianity and all Christians. It's called some moron put up something in the way that obstructs view and someone got hurt because of it or an accident is attempting to be avoided.

I don't hate Christians. I dislike how some use Christianity as a horrible way to control others, spread fear, and keep people uneducated. Some people really are bad and no one stops them in the Christian fold. When others try to, it's labeled as attacking Christianity and every single Christian must do something about it. There is a serious flaw in mentality here. If an Atheist is arrested for a crime destroying some Christian stuff, well Atheists don't all gather up to go defend the person. Of course we see it as wrong that was done because destruction of property is not right to do. However, if some Christians steal and burn things they feel are offensive to their religion, what happens then? Nothing. Just we hear how it happened and oh well. The law is very skewed and Christians cannot be the dominating force and yet expect to also declare they are always victims. Why do Christians not do more against others that do things like abuse kids and force them to believe in Christianity or they disown them? Why no help for gay teenagers that commit suicide because Christian parents drive them nuts? Why do people who are agnostic or atheist always have to stand up for these atrocities and then get judged as Christian haters?

I am Atheist and yet I watched Passion of Christ. I didn't mind it except for the extreme gore. Mostly it was the Jewish who were offended by it because they do not believe in Jesus as a prophet and don't appreciate the negative things applied to them because of it, which some Christians hate them for. Martin Luther, who founded the Protestant movement, was a big Jew hater. Still groups out there have issues over this.

I see Christian stuff all the time everywhere and have had annoying people at college try to 'convert' me and had to watch some idiot guy at a seminar tell girls they should dress better because men can't help themselves and that men should look to God to resist doing something bad to a girl. Uh...I don't need God to tell me to not rape a girl because she's wearing some short skirt and I can see her cute belly button etc. I told him that too and broke up the seminar as a lot of other guys agreed. Yeah, I'm a jerk and was told I am a sinner and hater of Christians and other ignorant charges.

I'm going off track here but my point is that people all have to stop being so darn thin-skinned. Not everyone is a Christian and even Christians can be horrified at how some people throughout history have abused the religion to get what they want out of it. It's why many try to adapt and say they don't want to be misled and try to live lives more peacefully and don't judge others so strictly. Of course, some Christian groups call these people not Christian. In the end, there's just not a respect of sacredness of other people's beliefs by too many Christians, and yet they expect it returned. You can't have your cake and eat it too all the time. So yes, Christians have a right to voice their opinions, but stop getting so offended when others voice theirs. Otherwise, it's just imbalanced and unfair and others will stop listening to anyone.