Affirmative Action

[EvilMan_89]

ok, i hope I spelled that right first of all, lol. anyways, what do you think about it? in case you dont' know what it is, this is from Wikipedia

Affirmative action refers to policies intended to promote access to education or employment aimed at a historically socio-politically non-dominant group (typically, minority men or women of all races). Motivation for affirmative action policies is to redress the effects of past and current wrongful discrimination and to encourage public institutions such as universities, hospitals and police forces to be more representative of the population.

This is commonly achieved through targeted recruitment programs, by preferential treatment given to applicants from socio-politically disadvantaged groups and in some cases through the use of quotas.


the gist is that it's a method used to help minorities by setting quotas for different ethnic races. i'm actually pretty neutral about this becuz i honestly dont' know what to think about it. on one hand, it is a good thing they are helping disadvantaged people get into these jobs and schools. however, in the other, the method itself is pretty much discrimination.

so do you guys think it's fair/ethical?

[8730]

It depends. I am against the direct use of this. Choosing someone because you don't have enough women/people from a certain ethnic background is as bad as not choosing them for the same reason. Selection should always be made on aptitude for the job.

But, things like encouraging more people from a specific group to apply for the job or encouraging them to get more training or go to university.

[White_Rook]

It should be interpreted as a way to open doors for people so that they actually have the skills to compete with any other human being for a job irregardless of race or ethnicity. This issue is how it can be taken advantage of.

[EvilMan_89]

well i read that the purpose was to help even the playing field after years of discrimination based on race and gender

[clawtooth35]

I think it is good in moderation. If a job says Whites only then that isn't fair and that is where it should be implemented. However, like evilman said a job should be based on aptitude alone so If X people apply and 25 pecent are asian lets say and there are 4 jobs on offer then logic dictates that at least one of the asians will get the job. That seems fair to me rather than not exepting an asian person because they have too many.

[EvilMan_89]

I think it is good in moderation. If a job says Whites only then that isn't fair and that is where it should be implemented. However, like evilman said a job should be based on aptitude alone so If X people apply and 25 pecent are asian lets say and there are 4 jobs on offer then logic dictates that at least one of the asians will get the job. That seems fair to me rather than not exepting an asian person because they have too many.

well, i'm actually pretty neutral, i just dont' know what to think

[Solid Snake]

It rly depends on how its used and in what situation :\

[Repliku]

I have seen affirmative action work and I've seen it fail greatly. It would be nice if employers were not such jerks and that men and women of any ethnicity with the right backgrounds and skills could get the job and at equal pay, but eh, it doesn't happen. This is a fact. I've known women that had more skill than men hired for jobs but because they were women, they weren't considered for the position even as they wished to advance and not be stuck at low level employment. I can also note where this has happened to men of other ethnicities.

However, I've also seen affirmative action backfire and people who -were- capable of the jobs got turned down to put some woman or non-Caucasian male in the position who was either lazy and didn't want to do anything while others covered for the person, or just was totally not having the skills for the job and so useless. I've seen this more with women truly than with men of different ethnicity where good women and men are passed over so some good for nothing girl can have a position and then the men around her will ensure they get the job done and the girl is eye candy for the government so that it can be verified they put a chick there. I have seen sometimes where men get the bias based on discrimination by 'race' but really, more often than not it's because of the way they dress and act. It's not always true but to me it's seemed that way as I've worked with more 'ethnic' guys than women. Also, I've noticed that sometimes they hire an 'ethnic woman' to take care of two things at one time.

The attitudes of these employers is that women are pretty useless, so the women that will work, get their hands dirty, climb things etc have no way to prove themselves because ditzy women with no clue get put in positions and men automatically assume they must cover for them. This can also apply to men of ethnic difference but as I said, lately it seems to me more women get crapped on. The other problem with affirmative action is some people KNOW that they should get the job after doing a headcount of how many women or ethnic people there are and so they push the issue while they fully intend to be lazy and not be worth a crap.

I've seen Affirmative Action work, but really, not as much as I'd like to say. More often than not it seems to me employers and employees have learned to cheat the system and instead of getting those who deserve the jobs the chances, it seems lazy bums or under qualified people get them, which totally berefts the point of Affirmative Action in the first place and makes men of ethnic background and women of any background seem stupid so other employees have attitudes and predispositions to hearing any others say anything good. It really is a shame to me that employers can't be more looking passed skin color or gender but it's also a shame there are people out there who are either not Caucasian or women who would rather abuse a system and get paid for it while others that would work hard are denied.

I am almost to the point of thinking Affirmative Action needs dropped because I've seen this happen so much it's pathetic but at the same time, there is still a need as some people who will work do get these jobs and without the chance, would they have? Someday I hope stupid racial and gender profiling and prejudice will fall to the wayside so that the right people get the right things and also the 'race card' stops getting used so much. It's a two way street and getting abused and it's actually one of those things that can sadden me, but many people don't want to look at it. This was a great question really. =:)

[Key]

This shouldn't even be in the realm of discussion. Affirmative Action is about as close to healing racism as Spam is to meat, but at least with Spam you get cool packaging.

If Jews and Asian Americans can rapidly advance economically, there's absolutely no excuse as to why black people can't do the same.

[Sacae]

I could get into the more detailed issues, but I'm too tired and its too late. I will, though, explain my vote. I voted sometimes. Simply because its a grey area now-a-days. Affirmative action was set for good reasons, but caused what I think can sometimes be a negative reaction. It produces reverse discrimination. Which I think is bad. Because of the past of the United States, the majority suffers for their forefathers. I know that I have little chance at some scholarships, and that someon of my same grades could get it because of their race. Some scholarships are even just for different races, even if the child is well-off more so than a majority child. The race question on the sats always bothered me for this. And the negative fact that some kids will get into a collage because of their race, even if their are better students who happen to be in the ideal 'well off because of race but in truth not' majority kid. This is the bad part of it. But, then again there are good reasons still for this action. Because, no matter what, their are still pig-heads who are racist. There is some college deans out there, I swear, who inwardly do not want those kids. That if given the chance would reject a minority with better grades for the 'white' people. So, affirmative action helps to keep that from happening. It gives people who do not live nicely already because of their race be given a fair chance for a future. Even if it may sometimes be unfair to the majority kids.

Very gray. That's why I said sometimes.