Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

Sora not justified? *Spoiler*

I say no. He was not justified.

 

Honestly, no. Despite destroying the Organization, I think Nobodies will still roam, Heartless will still chase after Hearts, and the ones who lost their Hearts didn't get their hearts back. :/

 

Can you please explain in detail what you are asking?

 

Do you think sora was justified in destroying the Organization? I really cant explain it any easier.

How about this... did Sora do the right thing when he destroyed Organization XIII.

 

Oh was that it? That means I answered wrong. -_- Well, it wasn't fully justified anyway.

If you think of it, if Kingdom Hearts was left complete, everyone would restore their hearts. Those who lost theirs, and the Organization. After that, we're all happy... I think.

 

Ok now I get it... Let me see, Yeah I do think he did the right thing

 

Oh I get it. I didn't see the question until I looked at the poll xD
I think he shouldn't have killed them all. They only wanted hearts.

 

I dont think so. Looking back at the game from begining to end, the Organization wasnt truly evil.

They just wanted to be whole. Something anyone can relate too.

If you play the game a second time, knowing the whole story, you will realize that they were not truly tring to hurt anything (except Beast) until Sora attacked Demyx. Sora started the fight with Demyx, after that then they began doing things that were evil.

Not only that, it seems like they were tring to help him. Remember Saix's cameo in Twilight Town? He warned you about Axel, who at that point was kidnapping Kairi and tring to turn Sora into a Heartless.

 

Sora wasn't out to -destroy the Organization- and there are so many posts already about how Sora is such a murderer despite the obvious facts that the Org is NOT innocent and were themselves mass murdering people and destroying places so that they could 'exist'. Whether someone can emphasize with the Nobodies and their plight and situation, villainizing Sora is not the way to go. He was doing what he had to do. He was being manipulated by the Org, people were being turned into Heartless and the Nobodies were releasing them on worlds in droves. Kairi was kidnapped, etc. They were -not- good guys. They had ended up in a bad situation but Xemnas and the top 6 were lame enough to put themselves in it in the first place, AND they had the memories of the deeds they committed prior to becoming Nobodies.

I do believe Xemnas had an ulterior motive to why he wanted to get stuck as he was and then move out of it which I think will be explained more in BBS and perhaps 358/2 Days, but in the end, he went about things very poorly. Just because you may emphasize with a killer does not mean that you should just let the person keep on killing which is exactly the situation Sora was placed in. Roxas ran away due to not believing in what the Org was doing and even in the end, Axel, one of the Org, became 'disheartened' by their activities and knew they were wrong and he wanted his Heart back just as much as any of the others.

Though I do think some members could have been different had they decided to not do the schemes and had more regard to others who actually were whole instead of making more Heartless and people stuck in the same situation they were, then sure, they deserved that chance. I could see that Demyx perhaps might have been able to be swayed and Sora was harsh with him, but really Roxas and Sora had to do what they did, as did Riku.

Would -you- just sit there and say that some group of fanatics could kill others with no regards but for their own selfish existences and plots? Could you just sit there and let people lie to you, steal from you, take the lives of others and use you as a tool and then say you'd just take it? Sora in some scenes, such as after fighting Xigbar, did show remorse and confusion. He wasn't a cold calculating killer, even with the information given to him. I can say I would have been 'wiser' than Sora, but I'd have had to choose my side because the Org definitely declared theirs. Even if I could feel sorry for them, I'd still have tried to take them out because they have no rights to kill others so they can exist; especially since some of them willingly put themselves in that position in the first place.

 

How many crimes did the Org (as in a group decision, not Axel or Marluxia acting independetly) commit prior to the Demyx battle at Hallow Bastion.

I can only think of two. The attack of Hallow Bastion during Sora's first visit, and the attempted curruption of Beast heart.

How many times did they seek Sora's help asking him volantarily? 4 times. During Sora's first visit to Hallow Bastion, during his first visit to the Underworld, during his second visit to Twilight town, during his second video to Hallow Bastion.

If Sora had complied, and allied with them, whats the worst that could have happened? Sora killed heartless, the Org gets thier hearts back, is that really so wrong?

They didnt become the full fledge badguys until Sora attacked Demyx.

Now granted, Xemnas was always a bad dude. I think he was even manipulating the Org members for his own gain, and had an unterior motive. This is probably why Roxas became disheartened.

 

Prior to that, there was the problem with Xaldin trying to kill off Beast. Next is the fact that the Org had placed Heartless around on worlds to get more Hearts and were using Sora to gather them up after they had taken Hearts and multiplied which sent the Hearts to the pseudo-Kingdom Hearts of Xemnas's.

Demyx also stole the item and attacked Sora down in Hades's realm. Demyx had stolen the Olympus Stone and the first time he was seen running by, he was let to go, wasn't he? Really Heartless of Sora to do that, hmm.

Next, Port Royal, apparently Luxord is the one who stole the Aztec Gold and put the curse on Jack and the others. He was also building a Heartless that later would be seen. In Twilight Town, the real one, there were also Nobodies running around rampant doing things.

Then there's Hollow Bastion where people were attacked as you mentioned. Also, Xehanort who later became Xemnas corrupted the computer and Sora and party had to learn that Ansem and Xehanort were two different people etc.

Sora was not being -asked- to help. He was being -told- he had no choice but to help. He was used. Roxas ran away to find out his purpose which had to be more obviously than killing a bunch of Heartless to give the Org power. Sora was being attempted to be beguiled to aid the Organization and they did not EVER tell him what was truly going on or their predicament or he might have tried to offer any other solution. Saix was down right obnoxious with him and mentally trying to scar him, also spreading a lie that Riku was gone etc. Also, the Nobodies were attacking BEFORE Sora encountered Demyx. The Dancers and such were at the Bailey and there were droves of Heartless around that they had put there. Demyx was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. There were a ton of Nobodies and Heartless to defeat before he even got to Demyx.

Their plans were well under way and Sora had little to do but try to save people from the Heartless and the Nobodies prior to meeting Demyx. Xaldin also had already proved there was no -talking- to them. Admittedly, Demyx was nothing more than a tool to the Org and may have been -salvageable- but by this point after all Sora had gone through, he wasn't feeling like being a 'nice little naive boy' anymore. I was surprised at his reaction to Demyx really, but he had already had to face Demyx once who was reading off a card saying to either bring Roxas back or deal with him. I did kind of lose a bit of respect there for Sora but I do see why he was so irritated and frustrated.

Xemnas and Saix clearly were operating very closely together and wanted things their way. The Org never was 'asking' Sora anything really but more saying he -had to- comply with what they wanted. Axel even was pointing out what they wanted with him and trying to sway him while Saix was trying to make like the Org was -good- but anyone could see through Saix's lies and mental persuasions. They were not what I'd call -evil- but the Org was definitely a force that needed to be stopped. Again, you fail to answer about what do you do about people that just sacrifice the lives of thousands of others, possibly more than that, just for their own benefit?

 

I think he did the right thing. Think about it. You don't know what would happen if they gotten to Kingdom Hearts. Would they get their hearts back? Or would the worlds be destroyed. Either way they had to be stopped or else the worlds would be destroyed.

 

All those crimes happened after Sora attacked Demyx. Also, the nobodies were attacking the Heartless at Hallow bastion. When the Heartless attacked sora --under Malificents commands-- the nobodies were already fighting the heartless. If anything they were defending (Gasp!) the city from Malificents invasion.

When Sora attacked the nobodies and heartless indiscriminatly, the nobodies defended themselves.

The Olympus stone theif was the only crime I didnt mention prior to Demyx being attacked at Hallow Bastion. But Demyx was using the Olympus stone to confront HADES! THE DEMONIC GOD OF THE UNDERWORLD! I dont know if he was looking to make an alliance, or challenge him, and we will probably never know. He ran away probably because he realized Hades in the underworld was a GOD, and he had no chance of reasoning with or defeating him.

In Twilight Town nobodies didnt attack anyone but Sora, and Siefers crew. A misdeminer at worse. If the Org wanted too they could have taken over the defenseless city but instead decided to use restraint. Notice you only fight them where no one else is around?

"Again, you fail to answer about what do you do about people that just sacrifice the lives of thousands of others, possibly more than that, just for their own benefit? "

I dont want to play slipery slope with you. It just opens a whole can of worms ranging to everything from "A mugger on the streets" to "A country which declares war on terrorism" and will probably get this thread closed and sombody banned.

 

You are mistaken. All the things I mentioned were done before the fight with Demyx. I even looked it up in the book. Also, it was very clear that though Maleficent thought she was something else, she was nothing but a tool as well. The Org were not good guys, no matter how you try to make it seem so. They sacrificed others so that they could attempt to 'exist' and in the end at least they -had- some kind of existence. Things could have been different for them had they actually asked for help and were not out already employing a planned scheme that had been set up years in advance.

 

First of all, I'm going to assume Organization XIII planned out the times of their attacks. They didn't just wing it and attack people when they felt like it. The things they did before the Demyx battle was probably all they needed to do at that time. All the while, they were planning something much bigger that they would carry out in good time.

The reason Organization XIII wanted Sora to help them was because Sora could slay Heartless and release the hearts that would form Kingdom Hearts, which the Nobodies needed so that they could gain ultimate power while also regaining their hearts. The regaining their hearts part isn't so bad, but the gaining ultimate power part is definitely bad. Did Sora want the Nobodies to win? No. That's why he refused to cooperate with them, even though he had no choice but to help them with part of their plan. That's also the reason why Sora had to get rid of them; he may not have wanted to, but it was his duty as the Keyblade's chosen one to eliminate any threats to the worlds. I don't know about you, but I'd consider Organization XIII a serious threat.

Which brings me to my next point. Can you imagine what would happen if Xemnas got his way? If his plan succeeded? If Organization XIII was never destroyed? Xemnas stated himself that with Kingdom Hearts' power he would create a new world. Would you want to live in a world that Xemnas created? I wouldn't. Or, like Ansem the Wise said, Xemnas' plan would ultimately end in destruction. Whether you sympathize with the Organization or not, what they were doing was wrong, and they had to be stopped. If killing them would make them stop, then so be it. It's just how war works, like it or not.

Roxas (with his other purposes) and Axel realized that what the Organization was doing was wrong, and so they did the best thing: they walked away from it. Compare it to saying "no" to drugs, if you will. ;3

 

Wouldn't Castle Oblivion be considered here?
They were using Naminé to try and control Sora (most likely for the KH Plan)

Ugh, its difficult to say. But Sora felt threatened by the Org and so did a lot of people (Yen Sid being the first to tell Sora they're a bad group) and whenever they got attacked by Nobodies they figured it was the Org's doing (seeing as how they knew the Org had control over the Nobodies).
And you know, why was Demyx the turning point? They didnt seem to care a lot about him. And other ORg Members were kileld by Sora before Demyx so why should his death be any different? Was it maybe just a WAKE UP call that who they are dealing with is actually capable of doing this? Or were they just enraged because 'Roxas' really had turned on them? This is one hard argument with no sure fire winner.... ech.

 

Sora pleads the fifth...

I was about to say the same thing. Think about it. This all started when Xehanort became Ansem the Wise's apprentice. They started doing the research of hearts and Heartless. Ansem may have stopped it, but Xehanort and the other "disciples" kept going. When they became Nobodies, they created Organization XIII. However, by becoming a Nobody, Xehanort created the Heartless "Ansem." This Ansem was the one who sent Kairi to Destiny Islands. That in turn, lured the Heartless to destroy Sora and Riku's world. Kairi's heart hid inside Sora's. Meanwhile, Riku was taken over by Ansem. The "Six Princess" Keyblade was formed which Sora used on himself releasing the Princess of Hearts hearts and unknowingly created both Roxas and Namine. Since Ansem was behind all of this, he was in turn responsible for Sora, Riku and Kairi all splitting up. While this is all going on, Xemnas goes to recruit Roxas while Marluxia kidnaps Namine. After Sora finally gets rid of Ansem and closing the door, the whole Chain of Memories saga starts.

Marluxia lures Sora into Castle Oblivion. He and half of the Organization begins the memory modification process while Riku struggles to get rid of Xehanort's Heartless inside his heart. Marluxia, Larxene and Axel go to town with Sora while Zexion, Lexaeus and Vexen deal with Riku. The memory thing affects Sora and everyone he's ever come in contact with.

While all this is going on, Roxas is doing who knows what with the rest of the Org. Still building Kingdom Hearts or whatever. Anyway, Namine rebels, Sora and Riku destroy five members, three of them from the original six disciples. Roxas also rebels, Sora does the whole sleeping for a year thing, while Riku, who's working for DiZ, encounters Roxas and the whole DD:ASAS bit goes on.

The rest of Org XIII orders Axel to get rid of their traitor, which is a sin in itself. After Roxas merges back with Sora, the Organization takes the fight to him and rains chaos throughout the worlds. Xigbar in Land of Dragons, Luxord in Port Royal, Demyx in Hollow Bastion and Olympus Coliseum, Xaldin in Beast's Castle, Saix in Hollow Bastion and Twilight Town and Xemnas also in Hollow Bastion. Axel messed with Destiny Islands (a la Kairi), Twilight Town and Hollow Bastion as well. I wonder which one took care of Agrabah...

In conclusion, Organization XIII was the one who messed with Sora and his friends first. Everything that Sora and Roxas did was in self-defense. The Org messed with the worlds, sent the Heartless and Nobodies to terrorize people, and even if all they wanted was to become whole again, they went around it the wrong way. So, Sora pleads self-defense because the Organization started it. ;)

 

Who is it that people are upset about?

Everyone in castle Oblivion deserved their fate, they attacked Sora and Riku first. (Yes, even Zexion.)

Xaldin was messing with beast, Sora's friend. Fair enough to kill him.

Xigbar tried to kill the land of the Dragons. You cannot expect Sora to take that lying down.

Saix... If you cannot see why he was killed, GTFO.

Luxord is the second most innocent, and that is not saying much. He was trying to kill Jack.

Xemnas is bad to the bone, he was the cause of the plauge of heartless. Also, what he was doing was unacceptable.

The only one who I feel slightly sorry for is Demyx.

I am not including Roxas and Axel, as it was not Sora who attacked them.

So Time to justify Demyx. He was messing with Sora by calling him Roxas, so that annoyed him, and stealing that stone did not get him in the good books. Sora may have been harsh, but it was a matter of time before Demyx did something to damage worlds. He was just stopped prematurely.

 

Everyone in Castle Oblivion deserved to be killed, but as for the other members, killing them was the right thing to do, but I agree with iwantedtoexplode that Sora shouldn't have treated them like that.