Creationism

I'm not trying to be mean, but don't you want to know the truth instead of hanging onto a book that has not facts based around it? I understand why you would choose dilusion over truth. Reality isn't always pleasing, but it gives you a chance to improve yourself.

 

once again when God created free will he made it so he doesn't know what we are about to do...he knows all the options and their outcomes but as to which outcome we choose he purposefully turns a blind eye...it's like a choose your own adventure book...someone can read the whole book from front to back and know what every possible outcome is...but then hand it to another person who hasn't read it all...they know everything they could possibly choose and what will happen...but they don't know what that person is going to choose

 

I don't find the idea of deity, much less one that's been shown to be as sadistic as God, a "pleasing" idea at all. I'm just much too logical a person not to believe in one. I'm not going to give in to the idea that everything just happened by coincidence. I DO want to know the truth, and as far as I'm concerned, what I believe in IS the truth.
And there is a lot of evidence (overwhelming in fact) of a worldwide flood.

 

No, Bushido. There is no proof of a world wide flood caused by torrents of rain fall. Show me valid scientific proof and not some Creationist spouting website with crap information from pseudo-scientists that just want you to believe in whatever. The Grand Canyon is not caused by it, nor are other places that Creationists insist on using as examples. The way the earth is layered etc, gives no proof at all that 4000 years ago this was even probable. It is all very orderly except for points where plates meet, and that certainly doesn't suggest a flood but more earthquakes.

If you want to put your faith in the Noah's Arc tale and say it happened, that's fine, but don't bother saying there is all this evidence for it. There isn't.

 

*Sigh* Not to mention the contradicitory evidence surrounding it.
If the waters of the earth covered all the mountains of the earth including mount everest noone on the ark would be able to breathe. Also two of every animal is not enough to ensure genetic diversity. Inbreeding will cause horrible gentic disabilitys over a period of time.
If they were on the ark for that long no plant life would survive, so once they got off the ark the herbivors would starve, and the carnivores would make certain species go extinct.
The flood water would mix freshwater with salt water thus damagin the water makeup and sun filtration of the oceans. Most marine life would die as a result of this flood.
Edit: I would have picked some other parts of the story to pick on but someone beat me to it *cough* Repliku *cough*.

 

well as far as the flood's concerned my belief system doesn't have a world wide flood scenario...but my friend was reading this and he said noah took 7 of each "clean" animal and 2 of every "unclean" animal...whatever the hell that means...

 

It's 7 or 2, depending on what people want to say. I believe in the Bible, I read it was 7 pairs.

The 2 unclean, unclean refers to animals that aren't 'kosher' to eat or are considered dirty animals. There are a whole list of them in the Bible.

 

ohhhh ok...=P i thought it meant animals that lived in the dirt like moles and stuff XD

 

The missing link is this.



See the picture of the ape that almost looks like a human male, but still has a ape bone shaped face ? The missing link is what scientists call the missing part of Evolution and they are still searching for bones and fossils that want to link the change between a ape face to a proper human face. In Evolution there is five steps towards the change between ape and then becoming man. Scientists are still searching for the sixth step which will prove Evolution being the real way that humans were created all together, though they still haven't found that fossil which completes the sixth step and prove Evolution being the complete and real theory of Evolution becoming reality, therefore ' The missing link'. So was asking, if Evolution is the real way that humans were created and not via a God like being, how come the missing link hasn't been found yet ? and after years of researching ?

Fancy Fossil information with technical latin- like names are not going to do me in if you want to prove Evolution is real to me, it just sounds like trying to be scientific and technical and not really a honest a opinion of what you believe in, just a opinion.

Believe that people should have a freedom to express and love what they believe in whether it's Evolution or believing in the bible and came here because was offend by the author of this thread calling Creationist retarted and stupid for what they believe in, people should have a right to believe in whatever they desire, even if it sounds stupid to other people. :>

 

That's correct. People are supposed to be able to believe what they want, as long as it doesn't impact on other people's rights.

...But the Grand Canyon being caused by a flood?

 

*Facepalm*
I like how you ignored all the fossils, and latin names of fossils that have been found that prove the theory of evolution.
Reread all the posts in this thread with an open mind, and if you are still somehow not satisfied let me tell you somthing.

And no I'm not giving you my opinion, I am giving you cold hard facts.
I am not going to sit here and tell you that I believe in the invisible pink unicorn, or the flying spahgetii monster,
or even the flying teapot. I am giving scientific facts about evolution, yet you continue to want somthing that is already there.

The theory of evolution states that organisms have adapted to different situatuations and enviroments around the globe. Some became succeful and procriated, while others went extinct.
For example the pygmy seahorse whose skin has become a simialar color tone as it's home.

The venus flie trap lives in an area with poor soil nutrients, thus it has adapted by eating organisms such as frogs, flies, and other creatures in order to survive.

Evolution works like this:

And this:

and this:


As for the link which is not missing either look at my signature or do a google search; I am sure wikipedia will have all the awnsers for you.

 

I took a look at the site the picture is hosted in. Just from a cursory glance at a few pages, I have a sinking impression that it's just another creationist website that spews half truths and/or outright propaganda and lies to further its cause (even if it says otherwise, the very wording on the pagse is utterly biased and bigoted and makes it clear to me that the site probably isn't worth trusting). It clearly doesn't have any respect for the idea of evolution or the scientific community or its method, and tries to make them look like something they aren't at all.

So if you got your information from there you've probably been misled. Let me put it this way: if you want to know about a religion, what would you do? Go to a church. Similarly if you want to know anything about evolution, go read a scientific textbook.

Furthermore, if you had read any of my previous posts, you would know evolution has already been "proven" (ie there's enough evidence behind it to consider it true). It's something we can clearly see happening in the real world, we make medicines based on it that work and we can avert disasters using its principles.

All evolution (which is not the same as common descent, which is what you actually mean when you're saying "evolution) says is that populations suffer changes in gene pools over time. That's it.

The fact that we don't know everything about human evolution (or evolution in general) doesn't discredit it at all. As an fyi, fossils are pretty rare.

I don't think you understood the significance of what I posted. :/

 

That's kind of like saying that a jigsaw puzzle with one piece missing isn't a picture of anything. It doesn't mean that missing jigsaw piece doesn't exist. The missing evolutionary link is more than likely under tons of sediment in a dessert in Africa (which were luscious rain forests when the organism existed). Scientists know that there is a missing link. It just hasn't been found yet -- that doesn't in the slightest mean it doesn't exist. It took nearly a dozen years from the point where they found Ardipithecus (one of the steps in human evolution) in 1998 until the point where they were ready to announce the discovery to the public last year. You can bet that discovering and presenting that missing link is going to take a while.

Scientific proof usually comes with scientific terms. What the person posted (I'm not sure who you were referring to (as I'm too lazy to check)) are facts, presented with scientific evidence of evolution.

I would be offended as well. It was completely rude out of line. :/ Don't take what the beginning post said to heart at all.

 

And this right here is an example of much of the futility of this kind of debate. The ultimate goal here is to try and have a rational discussion about something that is irrationally motivated. It would seem now that either side is just yelling at a brick wall. But do keep the chatter going if you must. It does offer some interesting insight into what we each believe.

 

I have many friends who are Christian (a very close friend of mine is VERY Christian) and I know and understand that religious belief and a person are two things to be considered independently i.e. I can really like the person but dislike their beliefs. I hate it when it comes between me and people that I otherwise like. But belief in Creationism really takes the cake for me. It is so utterly and obviously wrong I can't see how any intelligent person can say that it is true. I see it that a person would have to be totally ignorant of a MOUNTAIN of modern knowledge to belief such rubbish. What makes it even worse is that the Minister for Culture in Northern Ireland wants to put Creationism exhibits in the Ulster Museum as well as at the Giant's Causeway Visitor Centre. That is such an insult to knowledge and truth that it makes me feel ill. Although I suppose, if Creationists are allowed to do that then I am allowed to go into every Protestant church in Northern Ireland and put up all of the evidence of evolution (as the Catholic church is not Creationist, I was corrected on that by a friend and by the news funnily enough xD). Freedom of speech after all =] On that note, I had every right to say what I said in the first post. The right to be offended is not in the American constitution so far as I am aware (feel free to correct me).

I debate using facts and evidence. I sometimes offer opinions, but I will always endeavour to back them up with enough evidence. I do not see an irrational response with no basis in fact as a response in a debate. It might as well be ignored as it has no place in rational discussion.

 

look, i believe in evolution too. but come on, if you're so sure that it's so correct then what was the point of this debate? debating is made to figure out which answer is correct so i don't see a point in debating if neither side is willing to move. if you're trying to get people to change their mind, insulting them is only going to make them defensive and unwilling to change their opinions (not to mention making yourself look bad). also, looking at the first post, it makes the point of this "debate" come off as just an excuse to insult religion (which i'm not going to say it is because i can't say for sure). anyways, the point of this post is, while you are free to say whatever, you're going to have to use more tact if you actually want people to change their minds, otherwise it's not going to work.

 

I was going to to let this debate slide, but I really want to reply to this. This just sounds like what you were saying before, calling people who believe in Creationism 'dumb' and 'stupid'. Having a christian friend doesn't mean that you don't have a closed mind towards what other people believe in. BTW, how is creationism false ? Other people here, have posted their reasons why they believe in creationism being false but have only heard from you that 'Creationism is false, and you must be a idiot to even believe in it.' Others have posted proof, but where is yours ?

Northern Ireland is a heavy Catholic country right ?, plus there is proof of evolution in museums which is what some people believe in, the theory how humans were created. So what's really wrong about placing something that other people believe in, in a museum ? How do you know that evolution is the solid truth ? It's just what you believe in.

You can say what you want, but insulting what other people believe in, won't make you a poplaur person anytime soon.
Not everybody lives in America, btw. The whole world doesn't follow America's rules or system

Again, what evidence have you posted expect for keeping a closed mind ?. My side to the debate, is that there is thousands of different beliefs out there, and if you don't like it then life is going to be a tough place to live. What about those who believe in life after death ?, you just can't call people who believe in different things than yourself stupid, it's rather immature. I believe that I was a young male, living in the 1920's and used to work within a car repair store but then soon died before the second world war, because of the feelings, memories and flashbacks inside my heart and body. Everybody is different and different beliefs are what make people special and unique, and if you have hate towards people who believe in creationism then you are not letting people be who they are. You rant about freedom of speech, but what is more important is freedom to believe in whatever you dream or desire.
I'm more on the creationism side and I don't really have enough proof because I've only read through a small amount of the bible, but can say for a little proof of any creationism being real. Prayer. Pray about anything, and see what happens.

 

And now you're just clutching straws.
Does he really need to regurgitate the same thing others have said before him? Has it ever occured to you that his reasons have just been stated already? Besides, I haven't seen the other arguments against creationism disproven or even weakened, so why should we even bother to post new ones?

That depends a great deal on the kinds of museums they want to see it exhibited in. Think of the debate about whether teachers should teach creationism in Biology class. We weren't saying that creationism shouldn't be taught at all, we were saying that is has no place in a science class.
I'm not against creationism in a museum, unless it's a scientific museum.

I'd be surprised if one could find "the right to be offended" in any constitution.

Hating: "Stupid Christians..."
Impairing freedom: "You're Christian, so we're raising your taxes."
See the difference?

And what makes you so sure that the bible even is proof? Nothing the bible says, not even who wrote it, has ever been ascertained. I could say that I've been living for thousands of years and wrote it myself, or had others write it for me, and no one would be able to prove me wrong despite my explanations being pulled out of my ass.
Scientific articles, magazines, books and data are all fairly new, at least in comparison. Furthermore they are based on deduction and experiments (directly or indirectly). It's that what makes it usable as proof, not the fact that it's written down.

 

Well that's the thing. The concept behind most museums is to present some form of factual account. Unless there's evidence to support Creationism's claims it's not something that should legitimately be put in a museum. The point of a museum is to present an accurate account of how it happened, not a belief of how it happened. The latter is what churches and temples are for, and that's where they should stay until proven otherwise.

So you've read a little of the bible and that amounts to begin enough to prove that creationism is real? Also, the concept of prayer does nothing to motivate your argument.

 

Creationism is a cultural/religious phenomenon though. You can't flat out ignore it. It's not whether it's real that counts, it's whether it's there.
Go to a museum that exhibits Japanese culture and you'll find plenty of references to Shinto. That's the kind of presence in museums I meant.