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Email? what email.... Did I send you one? I don't recall doing that, oh well.

yup, we are almost there too! all we really need now is to establish the emblem, the basic looks, and maybe a few other things.

I say that the desoul's should resemble humans or a living creature at full health. as the health bar dwindles then the desoul should become more monstrous in appearance. this can represent the dieing soul. as your soul dies, so does your sense of self. therefore you become less humane, or in other words less human in appearance. the strong the desouls heart was, the more human in appearance the desoul should look from the start, and the more monstrous the desoul looks as they become low on health.

I thought that this would be a good idea after considering how the strength of heartless and nobodies is based on their appearance. The heartless (except the fake Ansem) are more monstrous in their appearance if they have strong hearts. for nobodies, the more human they look, the stronger they are.

I find this very interesting for nobodies, because they still have their body. so the question here is why don't they all look as they used to. Well I can only come up with one answer. the body has no defined shape. the shape of the body reflects the self imagine created by the soul and heart. A strong heart has a strong will. A strong will means a strong sense of self. And a strong sense of self makes more of an impression upon the soul. The soul can never truly reflect the hearts sense of self which is why nobodies never look exactly like their true selves. the hearts contains ones memories. memories help make up someone's sense of self. This can explain why nobodies have memories. But back on topic.

If the body's shape is truly dependent one's sense of self, then while you are losing your sense of self, that must mean the body must change in appearance as well. imagine how the boss fights can work out in this situation! multiple parts!

However, being a major in gaming and simulation, I would be concerned about how much processing power, constant transformations take up. too much transformations will lower the frame rate and nobody likes games like that. That being the case, most enemies should take on two looks. one for full health, the other for when their health gets halfway.

Now to think of other basic traits for desouls. next on our list I think should be eye color. Heartless had yellow eyes. this can be explained. The creator of the game, I think his name is Numora or something, stated that when one is exposed to too much darkness, then their eyes turn yellow and their skin darkens.

Nobodies have no eyes. why, I have no clue. The org members are the only ones that have eyes, but considering that the body's shape may be dependent on the your self image, then perhaps org members don't really have eyes. perhaps the eyes are really just part of their self image. if this is the case, then that means that eyes don't lie within the soul either. It would mean eyes lie within the heart. So that would mean one sees with their heart.

If the heart is what contains the eyes, then it would make some sense. Numora stated that the more you envelope yourself in darkness, the more stained your heart becomes. If the eyes are within the heart, then when one's heart is stained, then It would be appropriate to assume that the eyes would be stained as well. the same could be said for one's skin. Since heartless are those who are enveloped by darkness, their skin color should be as dark as it gets.

Now as for unbirths, they have red eyes. all unbirths(seen so far) have red eyes. so what does this mean? well I've made a theory on unbirths in two other threads, so I won't go too deeply into that, basically I said that unbirth are created when all three elements of life are split apart simultaneously. the idea is based off an assumption that birth in the KHU would be when the 3 elements merge into one, so then an unbirth would be the opposite.

going by the assumption that the heart contains ones eyes and skin, then perhaps unbirths have hearts or something like it. But why are their eyes red? Someone on this forum, who's name escapes me, theorized that unbirths are the essence of the heart, that could fit into my theory. but as i said before, whatever the case, unbirths have a heart or something like it. this idea leads me to believe that it is now more likely that unbirths will rely purely on emotions. perhaps that is why the eyes are red.

So what color eyes would the desouls have? perhaps they start as a dark gray and as the soul fades they turn to a light gray. One who is losing their sense of self should have lifeless look to their eyes I think.

I like it! on the to do list it shall go.... which makes a name idea pop into my head, a depressed.

I need to go right now, I'll finish up when I get back.

Hey man sorry I haven't been replying lately to the desoul topic, would you like to help me manage it when I'm not there? It can be tough doing it...

you never know till you try. I told this story before on this forum so I'm going to make it very quick. there was this girl that I really liked but I never said anything to her cause I always thought she was too good for me. Well Last semester I started spending a lot of time with her, and things seemed to be going well. so I decided that I was going to tell her soon. unfortunately, I told her but not in the way I would have liked to have told her.

She did something really bad one time when I was hanging out with her and she ended up braking my heart. when I spoke to her about it and how mad I was with her for doing it, that was when I told her I liked her. I learned that she liked me too, but unfortunately the damage was done, as I am with her. I still have feelings for her, but I know better than to hangout with her.

The point is, I can't help wondering what would have happened if I said something sooner. If you don't take advantage of the now, then you may regret what happens after then. just ask. or maybe don't ask, just drop a few hints.

Quite a bit of going on there drama. It would probably be best if you don't get involved. that leads to only more drama. Just do your best to ignore the comments that M and V dish out, and if it gets to be too much, then just leave. That's about all I have to say on this one.

no that's not it, but very similar to that. About the brace, wear it as long as the doctor tells you too. Most doctors know what they are doing. Unfortunately, they don't always know what's wrong. :-/

wait a second, wrist pain? how badly does it hurt? is the pain coming from your tendons? My sister has a problem with her tendons from too much typing. I'm not sure how to spell the name of what she has though. it's not a sickness, but it's not fun to get.

Ok, sorry about that, all my exams are done. so I'll pick up where I left off. First I think you edit your post since the last time I read it, so I go over that.

Sorry, I suppose this was tad ambiguous of me. see, the prefix De can mean away so I was doing my best to add that into the definition of what each desoul could be.

This kind of situation would be different from when Xehanort threw away his heart. that isn't exactly what I meant by throwing away your life. ok, lets see if I can think of an example. oh I have one, revenge. Revenge can take many forms. In it's worst form, one would completely forget about everything else in their life, they would skip meals, they'll forget about Friends, and even what is ethical. In in worse case, every single action of Someone who seeks revenge would aways be aimed towards accomplishing their goal. They would no longer be themselves. You could say DIZ nearly ended up as a desoul because of revenge, but he came back to his senses.

I suppose that revenge in itself deserves to be a separate case of becoming a desoul. perhaps we can call it Devenge, but this is the closest example of what I meant.

You have a goal. You become obsessed with that goal. you forget about everything that is important to you in order to obtain that goal. this is the basic idea here.

well It's because a Desoul's soul is fading away from existence. and the moment that soul is gone, the Desoul will die since death is when the soul leaves the body. It's like a candle burning away. the flame is slow reaching the end of the line where it is doomed to go out.

Yeah I know, it would be a really interest idea, but I wasn't really planning on building on it, at least not yet. I was just throwing ideas out there. When I thought more deeply on the subject, I realized that bodies are a substance which when dead they decay back into the earth from whence they came. so I'm not sure if that idea was all that legit.

I was thinking more along the lines that a dead head would still seek out living bodies and souls. This would cause a battle between living hearts and non living hearts.

we could say that a dead heart is not as picky about the body and soul it chooses because dead hearts have already lost their sense of self (their will). without their will, perhaps they lack that check list I spoke of (the list of requirements a certain heart has in order to find a compatible body and soul). this being the case, A dead heart would be see any body or soul as being compatible and would flock to the closest available. In turn the amount of living hearts being born into a compatible body and soul would be put to a halt; Thus the battle between living hearts and non living hearts begins.

but this is for another time, we are moving a bit to far ahead of ourselves here. so If you come up with ideas for this, then write them down. We can look it to them when we are done with the desouls (which will probably be soon). When desouls are complete, I'll make a new thread where we can create a game storyline that involves them (That should be fun :D).

I know, they are very similar. I thought that it would be a problem myself but I added them for the sake of it. If If I were to choose between the two I would choose Deknowns (partly because the name is great :D).

Ok, There is only a slight difference between the two.

Desocial - To shun away society, in other words be a loner by choice. This would have to be an extreme case of being unsocial. This would take things to the point where you have absolutely no life whatsoever. To do this one would stay away from anything to do with other living things. they would live by themselves and never leave the house, they would care for no one other than themselves.

If one were to do such a thing for an extended period of time, it would get to the point where the individual would start questioning who they are. they have done nothing with their life and are basically unknown to society. One may even begin to question whether they even have a sense of self. this would create a Desocial.

Deknown - this is kinda the opposite of a Desocial. A Desoul such as this would be shunned away by society. Once again this would be taking things to the extreme. This would also give a person no life whatsoever. Living things would stay away from a person like this and pretend that that person doesn't exist. Basically society would deny the person a chance to have a life, or in other words, the person never had a chance to obtain a sense of self. the person would have to be completely unloved and ignored.

An extended exposure to such a life would make a person feel as if they never existed. They would feel as though no know they exist. That being the case, they may begin to question whether they even exist. They would wonder whether they ever even had a sense of self. this kinda of thinking would create a desoul.

Both of these are similar in a way, but when you get down to it, they really very different.

I agree 100%. I've been thinking, all the names thought up so far deal with ways that a desoul would be created naturally. well There are pure breed heartless, and it has been assumed that the same will hold true for unbirth. these pure breeds have no emblem on them, so perhaps desouls with the de in front of their name are pure breed desouls. these desouls would have no emblem on them. Perhaps the are artifical desouls who are people whose will was broken on purpose. these desoul as well as their victims, would have the desoul emblem on them, and they would have names without de in front of them.

I like your idea on the 3 "elements of life" come back "messed up". However, as I mentioned above, I'm not sure if the way you are think about this can work out. But as mentioned above this idea can still work. I'm sorry, you were the one who came up with the idea and I stole the chance for you to come up with a name. therefore you deserve to name this one. I'll think of another way the name devive could work. perhaps I'll scrap the name and think of something to replace it. sorry again. I kinda got carried away there.

I made a thread about this, but no one ever replied on it. It was about this and many other things. My theories on this topic are very very long and I'm sorry but I don't really want to have to type it up again. This post is long as is.

As for numbers 4 - 7, I basically have already talked about the whole dead thing.

No prob! :)

lol ok. I was also thinking that perhaps a shattered heart could work or maybe a heat that is being eaten away (to represent a fading soul and the loss of will)

O.O kinda mind boggling here... lol. Well there are some good ideas in there as well as some where you may be pushing things a little to far. Granted you bring up some interesting concepts, but I'll need to sort through all that and see which of them are plausible, and which of them need we need more info on before even considering if it's possible.

Ok, you mentioned a lot about the dead so I'll go into that first.

Death has yet to be touched upon in the Kingdom Hearts Universe, therefore their is little we can say about it. So if we are to go into the topic of death in the Kingdom Hearts universe (I'll refer to it as KHU for now on, much shorter) Then we must first start by trying to define death from what we know. to do this we must also take natural phenomenons into account. So, lets begin with what we know.

the definition of a natural death in KH would be when the soul leaves the body. this leads to the death of the soul and the body. This was stated in either the Ansem reports (AR) or the secret ansem reports (SAR); I forget which one.

What is interesting about this definition is that it never mentions anything about the heart. so what does this mean? Well this definition can be applied to nobodies (nobodies are the soul and body) as well as normal humans (we can also apply this to Desouls). If the rumor, about a person reviving if their heartless is defeated before their nobody, is true, then I would have to say that if the opposite where to happen (nobody before heartless) death would be the outcome. This is going by what we know.

Also going by what we know, we can say that death for a human means their heart returns to KH.

So what becomes of a dead body and soul? well this is where natural phenomenons comes into play. Upon death, A person's body remains behind in the world of the living so that it can rot away back into the earth. The exception for this would be nobodies, but perhaps this is because the nobodies body has already gone through decay (oooooo, There's a good desoul name, but I can't think of way to apply it properly). so the body has been accounted for, but not the soul. well One could presume that since the KHU include Hades' underworld, the soul ends up there, however It may be that each world has their own underworld (I believe that this is more likely the case but perhaps not). Now we have the soul accounted for. This Is only an assumption here. chances are, that the body does remain behind, but nothing absolute can be said about the soul.

Now let's apply this definition of death to the creatures of KH.

Humans - body decays, soul dies and enters the land of the dead, heart returns to KH.

Nobodies - body decays, soul dies and enters the land of the dead.

Heartless - three possibilities here:

1) A weak heart becomes a heartless. the body and soul still live but their location can not be account for with our current knowledge. when the weak heartless is defeated, then it's original self becomes revived.

2) A strong heart becomes a heartless. the body and soul live on but as a nobody. the heartless is defeated, but it is unable to return to its body and soul for they have been given new life. the heart lingers in space. it's corresponding nobody is defeated. The heart is then able to return to it's body and soul. it's original self becomes revived.

3)A strong heart becomes a heartless. the body and soul take on a new life as a nobody. the nobody is defeated. With its new life extinguished, and it's original life still living as heartless, the body and soul instantly die.

I said their were three possibilities for heartless, but if desouls are added to the mix you bring up a forth. This possibility is based on an assumption that hearts choose a suitable body and soul, therefore they can only be combined with a body and soul that is compatible.

considering that KH is contains so many hearts I will also assume that the chances of a heart finding a compatible body and soul, to be born into, are very low. I think that it is safe to presume that each heart has a sort check list of things that it looks for when seeking a body, and one of the things it searches for is a body and soul from a certain world. This list, could account for the different types of heartless. with this all said and done, here comes possibility number 4 (this one would be a rare case).

4) A strong heart becomes a heartless. the body and soul live on but as a nobody. the heartless is defeated, but it is unable to return to its body and soul for they have been given new life. the heart lingers in space awaiting a chance to enter it's compatible body and soul. A nobody is defeated with a body and soul that is a near replica to the one that the heart is searching for. The heart is unable to tell the difference and instinctively combines with the available body and soul. Upon combining with each other, the heart, body and soul, which all work together to maintain one's sense of self, becomes confused.

The results from combining incompatible "elements" is as such. The soul begins to fade while feeding off the heart's strength of will (I like that idea of yours), while The body becomes increasingly deformed as the soul continues to fade (this could be a universal aspect of Desouls. As you fight them they become less human in appearance and increasingly vicious.) This creates a devive, one who loses their sense of self from combining a heart with an incompatible soul and body.

In theory, a desoul created in this fashion, can have a counter part.

for example:

Heart1 combines with body2 and soul2 (while) Heart2 combines with body1 and soul1

Now let's apply this definition of death to the Desouls (I really like the idea of the soul feeding off it's heart's will, so I'll use that for this)

Two possibilities:

1) the desoul extinguishes it's heart's will and in turn the soul fades from existance and the body decays. The heart can not be accounted for with the information we have. But preferably death with an incomplete heart leads the death of the heart. This can account for why desouls are so concerned about staying alive. the heart does not want to die. where the heat goes in this instance would be presumably a dead kingdom hearts, but let not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

2) A desoul is defeated before it's heart's will is extinguished. the soul dies and enters the land of the dead, the body decays, the heart returns to kingdom hearts.

you see desouls are amongst the living. what's more, they are formed when one loses their sense of self. be sure to clearly explain how they lose their sense of self when you come up with ideas for new desouls. I didn't fully understand how this was the case for the ones you thought up.

Going back a bit, decay could be the name of weakest desoul, because they die fast. But I don't know... decay implies death and desouls are alive. I also agree that their should be some desouls that don't have de in front of their name.

for now lets save the topic of death for another time. perhaps when we are done with this one, you can start a new thread for that. after all, it was your idea ;).

Now I don't remember what else you said so I'll have to end this post right here for now. I'll look back on it later cause I have and exam in one of my college courses today and I've been neglecting my studies lol.

hmm... interesting, we would need to play with that a bit though. there may be some issues with this. as the soul fades so does the mind. this will account for the loss of self. As the mind continues to deteriorate, then it becomes more difficult to keep a set goal in mind. For the most part, I think that most desouls would be more concerned about keeping themselves alive. however there could be an kind of desoul that losses its sense of self from becoming obsessed with a certain goal. those desouls could be the most fearsome, because they won't let nothing stand in their way of obtaining their goal. and as their soul becomes more faded, perhaps they become more powerful. This could be explained because they are nearing the end of their lifespan, so they have become more desperate to obtain their goal.

Now a name for these guys. perhaps Desessive (a play on the word Obsessive). or maybe Delife, those who throw away their life to obtain a goal. I don't know if I like those though.... any other ideas?

Oh! Maybe Desire! Lol the name was one that was already made. Yes I think the name Desire works nicely for this type of Desoul.

Are you read them online or are you buy the manga? there's a site that I know of that has the chapters all the way up to 92 translated. It's for...

*wakes from nap*.......... uh........ where am I?........... I'm lost......... *yawns* I hate getting lost............... It's too tiresome *snores*

these are some very nice idea's that you have thought up!

No, not at all! :D I like it! I like it a lot!

okay time for evaluation.

1. I like idea letter C. It's a very interesting idea, and it has sparked ideas for desoul names. As both of us have pointed out there are several ways to lose one's sense of self. This is probably one of the most unique things about a desoul, it can be created in many different ways. So how bout this? a desoul's name depends on how someone becomes a desoul.

Dehero would mean for a hero to stray away from the path of good. Demember would be a desoul create when one forgets who they are, in other words their memories have gone away. Desist (resist with a d instead of a r) would be a desoul who was original self was broken, thus their will to fight back has gone away. A desist could be the weakest desoul. then there could desocials; Those who lose their sense of self from not being social. And finally, Deknowns. Deknowns are those who are forgotten by society. That's all I can think of right now.

perhaps Dehero's could be the equivalent of that giant heartless who serves as the first boss in KH1.

So here's the names so far:

Dehero
Demember
Desist
Desocial
Deknown

I have one more name but that falls into number two, therefore, I will discuss it there.

2. It may in fact be more than a rumor that when a person's Heartless and Nobody are defeated, the person comes back to life. however the heartless must beaten before the nobody, for this to work. This means, Xehanort should be back. I like this idea of yours that sometimes the 3 "elements" come back messed up. the name for such a creature could be a Debirth, Deborn, or Devive. I think I like the name Devive best.

3. You are absolutely right here. A desoul can destroy a heart, but not in the way you are thinking. you see, even desoul's rely on the heart's will; they have already lost their own willpower. willpower is among the many features that makes up a heart. so without a will you have an incomplete heart. A desoul's heart is incomplete for they no longer have a will.

This concept, of an incomplete heart, brings about an interesting question. What becomes of incomplete hearts when their body an soul die? can an incomplete heart still return to kingdom hearts? Probably not. Two answers have come into mind for this. the first answer would be that incomplete hearts gather to form an incomplete kingdom hearts. The other answer would be that the heart would die.

Either answer could be the case. It may even be that it is a combination of the two. This would be how it would work. the heart would die, right? but where does a dead heart go? perhaps dead hearts gather together to form a dead KH. It would be the opposite of kh. This could lead into a new villain. An dead KH would perform the same functions as the living Kingdom Hearts. What would happen here is that a dead KH would give birth to undead.... not very kinghearts like though...... but still this could be done in a verity a ways. such as dead hearts seek out dead souls and dead bodies, or dead hearts seek out living souls and living bodies.

but yeah, desouls could mean the death of a heart.

ok I'm done. Your turn to evaluate my ideas. XD

no no no, lol not female. Sloth in the manga is a male. He is really big and strong. He is also the fastest Homunculus. However, as his name...

it may be pointless, but that doesn't stop me from wanting to be the manga version of Sloth XD

hmmm, we are doing role playing? alright, then I'll be the manga version of Sloth Mwhahahahahaha! ok, ok, time to get into character...... ugh.... I hate role playing. It's so bothersome........... Nap time........ *falls asleep standing up and begins to snore*

yay! I'm in!!! XD
Hey everybody!

Xemnas definitely! Man what a pain!

very very nice. *claps hands* yes the heart does seek kingdom hearts. when a person dies, their heart returns to kingdom hearts. but just one thing that I should point out here. what Saix was referring to was how the yellow moon (kingdom hearts) was created. when a heartless dies, it's heart returns to it's body and soul which in turn revives a person. however if the heart's body and soul is at that point in time is a nobody, then the heart has nowhere to return to, thus it lingers in space. if multiple hearts were to end up in this situation, then kingdom hearts forms.

I like both of your ideas, so lets combine them. Here's how we can do that:

since desouls have lost their heart's will, a desoul's heart is incomplete. without a will, the desoul's soul begins to fade. Once the soul has completely vanished then the desoul will die. Because a desoul's heart is incomplete, it's heart is unable to return to kingdom hearts if the desoul were to die. because their heart would be unable to return to kingdom hearts, their heart would die as well.

to prevent this from happening, they seek out the willpower in other people's hearts in order to prolong their life. the willpower of kingdom heart's is the greatest there is, so they desire that above all other hearts. if they were to obtain the will of kingdom hearts, then their heart will become complete. however, even with a complete heart, the desoul's soul will still continue to fade, but on the bright side, once the desoul dies, it's complete heart can then return to kingdom hearts.

In real life, people lose their sense of self if they become broken. Being a broken person means that your have lost your will to fight back. their are other ways that you can lose your sense of self, such as losing your memories, and such. because they lose their sense of self the desoul's soul begins to fade away. if the soul fades completely, then the desoul will die, because, in kingdom hearts, dieing is when the soul leaves the body. The amount of time that a desoul has before it's soul is gone completely is dependent upon how strong their will was.

Willpower is what keeps a desoul alive, this is why desouls desires the will in other's hearts, to prolong their own life. this is the basis of the desoul, they rely on the heart's will.

What makes an enemy in kingdom hearts is that it is incomplete, at least that's what it is so far. if you desire something, then you are incomplete. therefore, having a lack of desire doesn't work too well, because that means you are satisfied with how things are. I'm sorry :(, but it was a very nice idea :).

that is unique and a good idea, but then why call the game kingdom hearts? I know that it's good to have unique things in games, but what i find interesting about each enemy (at least with each enemy so far) is that each of them have a different reason for seeking kingdom heart. heartless sought to corrupt kingdom hearts while nobodies desire to be complete.

this idea could work if the main villain is the one to seek kingdom hearts instead of new enemies. but we already have the desoul along so far, that with what we have it only makes sense for them yearn the willpower of kingdom hearts. if they were to obtain the kh's will, then kh would become a desoul itself and the universe would fall into chaos as kh dies. This is one of the unique aspect of the desoul, what that desire would ultimately destroy kh and possibly even the universe. this make desouls an even greater threat than heartless and even nobodies.

I like to think of the desoul as a candle that is about to flicker out. desoul's aren't necessarily evil though they can be if the person they were was evil, but as their sense of self begins to vanish, they become more vicious. this is not only because they are more desperate to devour another's will but also because their mind has deteriorated along with their sense of right and wrong. they are like vampires in a way. they devour the willpower in others hearts which in turns create another desoul.

the more evil that a person was though, the more vicious their desoul will be.

A very good idea, but once again the whole concept of a desoul revolves around the will of one's heart. they feed on will. though I have a feeling that the Unbirths will be creatures of pure emotions. that can explain why unbirths are supposed to be wild in nature. think about about how wild one would be if they were to live their life based purely on their emotions. but I do like this idea! It is very very good! perhaps a little tweak is necessary....

I gotta say you come up with some really great ideas! I really do like this one! I'm just a little concerned on how much this will limit our naming possibilities. But like i said this idea is great! let's stick with it for now and see how it goes.

Interesting boss idea, please elaborate.

I agree with you here, but I had hard time thinking of how to get this idea to workout. you see, the desoul already has a body, they are essentially human except for the fact that their soul is fading away. if they didn't have a body then perhaps it could work, however the problem there is the fact that souls can't survive without the body, and vise-versa. the instant that the soul leaves the body, the both of them die. All that is left behind is the heart, which can survive on its own (example: heartless).

Great Ideas! keep em coming!