Alignment~

Here's a thought: Are people born evil or good, or do they develop their alignment? Are people born with 'evil genes' or 'good genes' or is it just something someone develops over time from their reaction of life?

Discuss.

 

i think they are raised one way or another. but to an extent they can change to one or the other over time...

 

Well, what I'm really trying to ask is: Can people actually be born with a certain alignment?

 

well i would say no. i do not believe so...sorry gtg.

 

I don't think some one can be born evil but they can turn evil over time with influences and their way of thinking about things.

 

since repliku will say this way longer.....

the genes we have might have something to do...maybe...but there are also the outside influences.

those are the two things that mesaure our personality....but i think that...even when you have "evil " in your genes, if youve been raised as a good person....you might feel compelled to do bad things....but the good teaching would be predominant.

 

Genetics can play a part in having the instruments needed to become a really rotten person, sure. However, the same genetics and dispositions inherent in a person can also be what breaks that person free of things others in his/her family have been doing wrong. Taking a look at even some of the most notorious killers in our history, quite a few serial killers, rapists and such have had some tragic pasts with abuse, neglect, molestations, rapes and/or family members using them for things they should not. How many of those serial killers though had parents or children that were? Not many at all.

Dispositions can be encouraged by mental conditions such as schizophrenia, social disorders and such but many people live with even psychopathic natures and they aren't out killing, raping or harming people. Some mental conditions get exacerbated by drug use or alcohol. Some of the nastiest murderers have been diagnosed with schizophrenia, psychopathic social disorders etc. However, there are -many- people who are similar who lead lives without pondering such dark notions, let alone deciding to carry them out.

Another thing to analyze is that many of the people with mental conditions that turn into some of the most horrible murderers tend to have childhoods that are full of abuse, neglect, conflicting messages to the children, assaults, etc. Having someone with a genetic disposition towards say a bad temper and abusing that kid is certainly going to probably end up with a bad kid and worse adult unless that child focuses that energy on becoming separate from the negativity and fights to be something more positive. People without mental conditions that would be coined as genetic, but they develop later on in life from abuse etc, can have tendencies to do crimes as well and hurt others. Not every gang member or bully etc has a predisposition genetically to be that way. They are born and raised into it. Something encourages that person to decide to become that way.

So though I don't rule out genetics entirely, because they do have a factor in the ways one might think, I do feel that the environment the person is raised in is also a key factor. When talking to some people who do some questionably rotten things to others, I've pretty well been told it wouldn't be that way if there was something else. It makes you wonder. Genetics in the end are the tools we are given but it's environment that teaches us which tools we are going to pick up and use the most. I don't believe anyone is -born- with an alignment or even in their lives has just one, and that's kind of a D&D (Dungeons and Dragons) term that can't apply to any normal person at all. We change our alignments constantly.

 

The way you grow up for sure.

I can tell you right now that meeting certain people in my life, and doing certain things, have COMPLETELY changed my outlook when it comes to helping others/ignoring others.

Srsly.

Also, Repliku beat me to the whole "people don't have alignments D:" bit. Per usual. >_>

 

Honestly, I don't believe there are really evil people, well atleast not a lot of them. But when you're born you don't know enough to have an "alignment" so I say no to being born good or evil.

 

Good and evil are subjective. You can be born the savior to some the anti-Christ to others without even thinking or doing a single coherent thing. So no. That said, it's just how you're seen, whatever you say or do none of it is good or evil, however it is remembered is what decides. So when you've got opinions of you then you're good or evil, that's not a choice of yours nor is it related to genetics or upbringing directly. It's about what your environment accepts and rejects, evil is cast aside or shunned and despised, and good is welcomed. Simple as that.

 

It is developed through life expireneces (in my opinion)

 

What is good and evil? You make it sound so black and white, when really the entire spectrum flips when you look through another person's eyes. Good and evil are very shallow words, mere convenience. The true nature of an action is far more difficult to define. You cannot split all actions into two groups of good and evil. Impossible. For example, let's say a man breaks into a house and kills the occupants. This sounds like it belongs firmly in the Evil box, right? But what if the family he killed were a group of drug lords who were killing millions daily through distribution of their drugs? Suddenly this becomes a lot less clear, doesn't it? Perhaps the man was justified in killing them. But then something called motive appears. If this man killed them in vengeance, or to get more drugs supplied, then you might say he was evil. But then you get the thought "Perhaps not, as the drug lord hooked him in the first place. It is justice". So we have that motive. But what if it were a concerned parent whose child had taken up the drugs and was not listening to reason? So he killed the drug lord to stop the flow of drugs. So as you can see, this is not all simple. Just to hammer it in more, let's take a very simple scenario. A man bursts into a "good" couple's house. They are intelligent people, who enjoy donating much of their money to charity and giving blood weekly. This man shoots them dead purely for his own sadistic enjoyment. Surely he is evil? We still have to grapple with motive. Anyone who does something like that must not be right in the head, a slave to his own urges. Is he considered evil, or pitiful?

The alignment you speak of sounds like it would be far better rephrased into paths, or what they will do with their life, opposed to good and evil, as when it comes down to it, they are not suited for the level of depth you want.

But I digress. Let's get back to the main topic. The question you ask is the question "Nurture or Nature?" This question is whether people are influenced more by their life-quality or their genetics. I say that their genetics always play a part. For example, a man with very elongated limbs and fantastic co-ordination is likely to be a basketball player. Those who have a gift are likely to be hailed as heroes. If someone has a natural skill with Language, they will end up doing something with language. I am dyspraxic, meaning I am highly unlikely to pursue a life of sport. Genetics has shaped all of these, cutting off potential turnoffs on the highway of life. But I would not say nurture has no part in the forging of people. If the aforementioned basketball player was constantly treated like a freak and made an outcast with no self esteem, he may miss the chance to become a basketball player, and instead turn to suicide. He would no longer become a famous star, and instead would be a brief 2cm X 5cm obituary in the paper. If the languages master grew up among text language and street talk and never learned to read, his natural talent would be denied.

So in conclusion, it is both nurture and nature that influence you. Genetics may have a far less obvious influence of some people, while on others it leads them on an almost certain track. But in all cases, nurture can turn a path and cause a roadway to be sealed off, or cleared.

 

Can't say I've really liked the use of the word 'evil' to describe people as it has a very negative connotation to it and seldom are even the worst people in any society always in a state of being so villainous that they could be considered 'evil' to me. The word evil to me would be more like some being that is in a constant state of absolute destruction and that's all that being wants to do. i.e. beings of mythologies that were made to fit the role of destruction such as Loki, Set or Satan. You do bring up a very good point that depending on the society you are raised determines what is inherently a good or bad thing to do. However, I would state that if a person is raised into a society where they know rights from wrongs there, then they would be purposefully choosing to do bad acts. If murder is something that is frowned upon in the society and a person does it, he/she knows it is wrong in that society.

I do think though 'alignment' simply just is something that is a role-playing term and doesn't apply at all to real life. However, not many societies approve of murder or rape and messing up a society by messing with its people too much. Even cultures that were very bloody had systems where murder outside ritualistic occurrences or combat was considered wrong. I wouldn't term it as 'evil' but I would say it was not a positive thing for the society and therefore deemed a bad thing or destructive thing to do. So even in blood ridden societies of the past, there was a system of order and limits to how much people would do and they still had their criminals as well.

 

Well you can't think everytime someone says evil it means 'the spawn of Satan' it's just a term today used as a strong negative to something.

But whether your born good or evil. Meh, I couldn't care if somene is born good or evil, some people are born with certain emotions and traits that make them seem good or evil but in the end it is all about sheer willpower. I mean just because someone is born one way doesn't mean they can't change and become something else. ALignment, Morality, whatever you call it, I don't think it could ever be a fixed position, because everyone has their own opinion that could very well change with time. All I can I can say is 'Kids, stay in school'.

 

Agreed.

However, I think life experiences also can influence them to be 'good' or 'evil'. People who they hang out with and etc. Although I really don't think there is such thing as good and evil. Its more of people's judgement.

 

What is 'evil' PAW? Evil by meaning is sinful, morally apprehensible, wicked. What is a sin? It is a crime against God.

What is my problem with that? It was not a sin to murder thousands of people under the orders of God. It was not a sin to rape, make slaves of people, kill off men and male children in front of their families, take women forcefully as wives, pillage and plunder other domains, etc, as long as it was all done under the order of God. However, Cain murdering Abel over jealousy was a sin. Eve and Adam eating forbidden fruit that sat on a tree in their garden was a sin. Doing a sin is an evil act which is against God. That's what it means.

Now if someone goes to court for murdering someone else, do I want that person tried because he/she committed a sin against God or do I want that person tried because he/she did an act that is a crime against humanity? I want to see them dealt with because they've killed off someone wrongfully, hurt the loved ones of that victim and left them destitute. What if, and it's been done a ton of times, someone says God told me to kill the person? I still think that person should be punished for the deed done and removed from the streets before he/she could harm another person. Now say on the same note that the person who killed had to do so out of self-defense? It's still a sin and a crime against God to some. However, is it really that or is it an act of self-preservation to stop a mad man swinging an ax?

I certainly would care to answer if people were judged to be determined 'evil' at birth because a whole bunch of negative things could happen. Those found to be likely to be 'evil' from birth...what kind of life do you think they would have? It's not like some fanatic religious people haven't tried this route before and offed 'evil' kids for being possessed etc when they were just kids. The term 'evil' is outdated and if someone believes in God, surely if some criminal can't be tried or punished on earth, that person would get what's coming to him/her in the afterlife. We can only go off of what happens on this world what we have to work with and that's physical and tangible evidence. If someone gets away with something and a person is religious, they will know that person will get what's coming to him/her. If the person isn't religious or doesn't have an active omnipotent/present force in his/her belief, the law is all that may protect that person or give some justice and closure. It would be different if those who murdered, raped etc were struck down by lightning after and those who weren't were deemed forgiven by the entity(ies) but it's just not what happens. Hence, my problem with using the word 'evil' to label anyone.

 

I don't think anyone is good or evil, born good or evil, or even eventually becomes such.

It's completely make-believe. We made it up. Just an idea.

 

Oh no, good sir, I did not mean it like that. I meant only to highlight that in the modern society it is simply a negative meaning and has hardly any relgious or any other meaning behind it. I'm sure it has more (or different) meaning to such a person such as you but the actual meaning and use of the word falls deaf on many ears today.

That was a human choice to say it was in the name of God, no divine meaning was behind any pillaging or murder that was commited in those days. It was simply a means to say to people 'You see, God wants us to do it, and we go to heaven, so lets pillage and plunder till they are all dead' those would be the words of a false prophet, a sinner and liar, words that can not be trusted. (Wow, I sound real religious now)

 

Of course it has less meaning but when someone uses it to say are 'people born evil' it is a simple thing and a classification. People can't be classed that easy no matter how much they try. Only the prejudiced and closed-minded or unknowing try to do that. The word evil is still what it is.

As for what you say secondly, it's in the Bible. All those things that would be highly frowned upon today are in the Bible as just things under the name of God. If those acts had been carried out on someone when not under the direction of the deity, it would be considered a sin and thus evil. Evil is a human word to describe what it does...sinning against God. Yes, people can use it now in other ways such as saying 'I have an evil headache' or 'oh that was so evil!' when carrying out some prank. But when someone says an 'evil person' they aren't thinking of the word in that way. I think all people should know the origins of the word because what they are thinking of is someone truly who is horrible, an abomination of wickedness, someone who can never fit in society etc.

And -you- say no divine meaning was behind what they did and yet it is clearly written in the Bible that it was the will of God. You are going on the point of exactly what I was making. We cannot trust that someone can just say 'I did this act in the name of God' whether in the past OR the present. We can only judge people's natures by what we can actually perceive and if some want to make an opinion that things are 'evil' that will vary. There are Christians out there that believe all sorts of things are evil, such as gays, girls starting their periods means they did some unchaste thing, blacks can be evil because of the way they've been described, Muslims are evil, having heavy metal music is evil, etc. The word is not a safe way to judge anyone by because it in itself is corrupted by the very fact it is up to the person to decide what he/she deems is evil and NO society can come up with a way to make everyone come together on it. After all, no one can even come together exactly on what is the proper way to worship God and those not Christians certainly don't care.

So again, you didn't answer the question on why you don't care if someone is born evil or not. Can they be -born- evil and what does that exactly mean to you? You go on about perceptions but you miss the point that you absolutely are supporting my dispute in the first place.

 

Forgive me. I didn't mean to seem like I was arguing or anything else. I guess I was just putting things into my own words without actually thnking about it properly.