Judging by the lower case "c" on christianity, you may be able to guess my current stance. Atheist? no. agnostic? yes. unfortunately, over the past year, and as I'm sure has come to the attention of anyone who reads my posts, I've become quite militant against religion as well. First off, I'd like to apologize for that. To my fellow agnostics, I'm setting a poor example of ourselves to outsiders. I should be Rational and calm before entering a discussion about such a topic. However, maybe do to my upbringing and physical location, I've grown accustomed to having to shout and demonstrate to be heard. Everywhere I go I feel as though I am a second class citizen as soon as my beliefs are mentioned or discovered. I feel like it's a topic I can never escape. and I also feel like christianity isn't being fair to my opinion. I understand your desire to convert me, and I won't go into the discussion about that, I realize that's not something I can change, you will continue to Hand your opinion to people who don't want it. However, I will ask, please don't shove it down there throat when you do. What I am here for primarily, is something else though. I'm concerned about your double standards. My encounters with members of your faith generally go ok even when they know I'm not a christian, it's when they find out that I don't believe in any god at all at this time that it bothers them. About the time I reach this point in a discussion, it's like hitting a brick wall. Suddenly everything I say has zero credibility to them. They'll talk to you and tell you their personal opinion, but everything you say will go right in one ear and out the other, because they no longer care about you as an individual. Essentially, if your not going to be easy to convert, they won't make nearly as much attempt to, other then to tell you how wrong you are repeatedly until you are sick of it. And then hatred sets in. I don't want to hate you guys. I've come to hate your religion. But I don't hate you. I struggle to show that though. I struggle to not take it out on the person as an individual, knowing it's not them that causes them to act this way. Additionally, even if you are joking, please don't threaten people with bodily harm, or to be dragged off to church, etc. I've received many threats like this over the years living in the place I do, and sometimes they scare me. Some are very real sounding. I understand many of you haven't felt what it's like to live in a place where you're constantly persecuted, Americans in particular I know are by majority religious. Please think about what you say and do, and what you look like to someone in a heightened state of fear about a topic, especially one that's omnipresent and you can't escape from hearing about on a daily basis. So, I'd like to ask all of you, what can I do to become more friendly, to tolerate the way I'm treated and realize, it won't always be like this. I won't always be persecuted and then turn around and retaliate, only to have the persecutor claim to be the persecuted? To agnostics and atheists: What can I do to stop from becoming what I hate, and to christians, What can you do to stop me from hating you?
Be open minded. If you have no problem with who that person is and what they believe in then why friendship can't occur is not because of faith or lack of but because of stuborness to not look past that. Don't get into religious discussions with people you meet straight away, find out about the person they are. Character is more important.
fixed ;) Even as a Christian, I can relate to you here. I will keep this in mind. I admit that I have a tendency to be a little more like this than I intend to. Usually I'm pretty good about it though. Here's the thing. In my experience, when Christians are taught how to talk to other people about God, they're taught to speak as if the idea of at least some kind of God is accepted as true. So when they realize it isn't to you...they kind of freak out. They don't know what to do, because they haven't been taught. This is something I've always disliked about my own religion, that we're almost never told to think for ourselves when it comes to this kind of thing. Anyway, that may be why. Personally I don't take this kind of approach. Thanks, I'll keep this in mind even though I've never made (or heard of before now) anyone making actual threats about dragging people to church or anything else, joking or otherwise. I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone for being atheists unless they're really dicks about it, like Richard Dawkins. If I met you and you told me the things you've said in this thread, I'd have absolutely no problem with you. All I can tell you to do (And this is going to sound bad) is to look for better Christians, because honestly it seems like you're getting the crap end of the stick. Where I live no Christians treat atheists that way, honestly. Oh, and if you do want one thing on your part, don't say things like "I'm never going to change" or "You can try all you like you'll never break me", or things like that. Not only does that makes us feel like we can't do what we're taught to do by our God, but it's just plain closed-minded and people don't really like that.
not to sound like an ass or anything but you do have to say that sometimes to christians simply because their faith states that they must try to convert everyone so sometimes you kinda have to be a bit of a dick to get your point across i mean not everyone is like this but sometimes it must be said and also being close-minded to religion isn't usually a bad thing due to the fact that most mainstream religions just drag you down and being immune to pressure is usually a good thing mate sorry to state the obvious but you gotta admit that christians usually have a very annoying philosophy of nagging preaching i know this because i know many christians and a few especially devout ones who i have butted heads with way too much because i simply believe religion is nothing but a pox on everything. and to answer your second question umm..... i dont have a keyboard that will allow me to type non english characters. so yeah umm the best philosophy is dont try to be more liked by those kinds of people because it seems to me that they will only be happy if you convert and if you fold because of pressure you will lose my respect forever so yeah the only thing i can say is be respectful of those who respect you and if they have any problem with you then short and sweet........... **** them
Okay, first of all, please learn how to use punctuation. If I tried to read that run-on sentence out loud, I'd pass out. Second, no, I really don't have to admit any of those things you've said that I've "gotta admit". Lastly, I just wanted to point out how hilarious it is that きんたろ makes a thread about how he doesn't like Christians pouring thier beliefs down other's throats, and then my post doesn't do that at all while yours does nothing but state all of your beliefs (That no one asked for) in an incredibly deliberately insulting way. It's just funny.
I think you're being little too general. Not all Christians are like that. In fact, Catholicism specifically teaches NOT to shun people of other religions and lack thereof and that Nonchristians can still be good people without having to convert. Next, if you think all Christians have a double standard like that, you're probably just a well meaning person who happens to be surrounded by *******s. On what Slaughtermatic said, it is partially true. When people are only exposed to people who hold similar beliefs, they become scared and/or defensive when they meet people who are different. It's one reason why I'm lucky to be going to a Catholic school with so many different kinds of people, at least a third of the student population being Atheists and Agnostics. Do keep in mind thought that most Theists (including Christians, Jews, Muslims, and others) tend to talk about God as if he exists and most Nontheists (Agnostics and Atheists) talk about him as an idea that isn't real. It's simply human nature to speak in terms of what you believe rather than try to understand the other position. It's like how people who are brought up in an Atheist family have a strong tendency to assume that all other people are Atheists until otherwise noted. The same thing happens with almost every religion, ideology, and philosophy. On threats: Again, you're probably just surrounded by idiots. The only Christians I've heard of doing that are those who were affiliated with the KKK, and I don't even consider racists like them to be people, let alone Christians. Finally, as Slaughter said, don't make comments about how you will not be broken. It makes you sound like a jerk. Just listen and try to learn more about Christianity. If you're going to hate something, you might as well hate from an informed perspective.
Okay, I am not really agnostic or atheist. I consider myself an evolutionist. But if you want to stop judging people based on there beliefs there is one thing you need to always keep in your mind, it isn't your problem. This works for me, as I have no problem with anyones religion. In fact, I respect other beliefs as if they were my own. I would never bash someone simply based on the fact that they think differently from me. Why, because I am happy that people think differently. What would the world be like if we all thought the same??? Another thing I keep on my mind, how many wars have been started because someone had another religion (I could make a list but I would rather not). Just keep these things in mind and you should be fine, hope this helps ^_^
I don't think that a difference in beliefs preventing you to have a friendship with someone is limited to Christians. I've seen it in all different sorts of people, and it's not always just about God--it can be tastes in music, movies, books, hobbies, sports teams, etc. Are there Christians that are like this? Sure. But I'm sure there are also Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists, Yankee fans, Communists and so on that are the same way. I've come across hardcore Christians that do try to shove their beliefs down your throat, but I've come across a lot more that are totally nice and normal people. I think you might just have had some unfortunate experiences with it, it could just be that the Christians in your area are like this. I was an altar server for sometime and I attended weekly religion classes for a few years as well as did a few charity events with the local Christian church. Even then I kind of questioned all of it and started to move towards atheism. I never once felt outcasted because of this, and nobody tried slapping me with a Bible or anything. These days I'm between agnostic and deist, if that's at all relevant.
I can say as a Christian that I rather dislike quite a few Christians as well. The evangelism as taught by Jesus was not about peer pressure, threatening, nagging, or any of that. It was about being so insanely loving that people know there is something different about your life. They were taught that when ordered to carry a soldier's baggage for a mile, they should carry it for another by their own good will. Taught to forgive any offense 7*70 times since it was not their place to pass judgment on anyone. And taught to put the needs of others before your own because you know that anything you have on Earth is insignificant in the scheme of eternity. What you do is your call but since you are describing your problem as being with Christians instead of Christianity I would love to see you do Christianity as you feel it should be done. But that is as far as I'm going to push that unless you ask me to continue. I just want to make sure you making the decision rationally, and not because of a disdain for people. As for your questions. What can I do to become more friendly, to tolerate the way I'm treated, and realize it won't always be like this? You seem to have answered your own question here really. Just don't let them get to you. Find a new way of looking at it. Instead of telling your "These stupid Christian's trying to convert me again" try something like "They care enough to try and help me, even if I don't think I need help" Eh, that didn't really sound how I wanted it to. The point is being open-minded, even if you don't agree with the other side, makes any topic a lot easier to discuss. I won't always be persecuted and then turn around and retaliate, only to have the persecutor claim to be the persecuted? To Christians, What can you do to stop me from hating you? We should be asking you that. In spirit of that I'm actually trying to see if I can incorporate an anonymous message box in my sig.
Well, I'm a Christian, and I get what you mean. The other day, a girl in the Dorms and I discussed religion, and she blatantly told me my faith was wrong. This really pissed me off (and I am not easily angered). What you have had to deal with seems to be (what in my opinion are) extremists. I'm Christian, but I'm a progressive Christian, I believe in evolution, but with a slight twist. I believe in the Big Bang, only that God put it in action. Some people would probably call me not a Christian because of this, but the reason I dismiss most of the old testament, is that it was originally sent through many generations orally, and everyone knows that when a story is being told, it changes from one person to another. I don't try to convert people of other faiths either, because to me it's pointless. A person who has made up their mind and has his or her own faith, can't be budged. I sure won't try to tell someone they are wrong, simply based on their belief. Because that's what religion is, it's belief, you can't prove any of it. It's a fact (good luck trying to prove Gods existence)! Many people look at the Bible only as a story, and though I agree with this to an extent, you have many factors within this. If you believe in some sort of Godly being, you should check up on different religions, to see if you find one that makes sense (of course, religion doesn't always make sense). I think it sucks that you've had the sort of experience you have had, but you have to know, there are many Christians around the world, and the ones I know (except for the one extremist ass), none of them would ever impose on you or your belief. My philosophy is this; As long as you respect me and my beliefs, I will respect yours.
I think this is the longest sentence I've ever read. Ever. At any rate... I've really just come to accept that people will try and convert you. And if you have a determined enough attitude with a "no," they won't keep asking. If they do it again, then you have an excuse to say "hey, I said no, **** off." -shrug- It isn't being an ******* because they're clearly incapable of using their auditory senses. Still, respecting those views in an argument however, is different, and in that case you should be able to respect what they say. Granted most religious arguments are "this is the way x, y and z are because of God." In that case, you have to either back off because their logic has no proof or challenge it for that very same reason. Personally, I never challenge it anymore because it always ends the same. I'm just bored with it tbh.
All you really have to say is "If you respect my beliefs, I'll respect yours." This will usually end the conversation, but if it doesn't, ask the person calmly to change the subject. If they really won't get off your back, just walk away if you can. It's really not worth getting into a quarrel with someone you may encounter on a day-to-day basis. That also means that should at least try to respect their beliefs, yeah? I'm not saying it's right for them to force their beliefs on you, but an eye for an eye only makes the world blind. /Ghandi It'd be best not to try to argue why you think their beliefs are wrong when they confront you with it; that gets you nowhere. You're as likely to change opinions as they are, and it will only escalate the situation.
It's understandable to get frustrated and angry at people on the other end of the spectrum. Some heavily devoted religious peeps are biggoted and won't listen to the other side or accept the Bible has flaws and contradictions and certain rules are ignored (like wearing nylon is a sin) while standing up for some (abortion is a crime) when that had ironies (god kills pregnant women by destroying a whole town and those unborn childs deserved the death, I'm paraphrasing but it's basically that). But then gunning it all is wrong. The bible has some good lessons and points, sometimes the good lesson was not in the original versions (like the story of jesus telling people they can stone a woman if they do not carry any sin with them) but I think people should take the positives. Respect others views, try to be patient and caring and compassionate. Don't judge others when you're in a glass house is a good life view. But also the Bible to me says you can be human with faults but just try to be the best person you can be. I love Corinthians for a passage about love. "Love is just pure and beautiful and can't be controlled". (paraphrasing again) I am agnostic in the mystic side of it, I think jesus was as human as us and was lovers with Mary Magdalene. But I do believe in the "Be the best person you can" mantra it shows and not the "This is sin, judge it" others read from it. If God is up there in the pearly gates then thats for him to judge and not you to act upon. We've all broke some commandments, but the ones that should be witheld are the no murder (include rape and abuse here), no steal and respect (good) parents. That's me at least, so do try to accept there are people on different levels of spectrums man and try to be open minded and as diplomatic as you can be. Read the bible too if you want, it's actually good to know more about what you disbelieve because some of it will possibly appeal to your views on life and society. It doesn't hurt to study, but it does hurt to follow a crowd mis-informed. If you know more about a bible than a bigotted zealot it really hits home to them over their ignorance. I get how ignorant some people are, try your best or just agree to disagree and change topics.
beliefs aren't the only thing important here, as you can see, we come from many races and many beliefs, were all different, but that's what makes us human.
