On existence

Having rewatched Serial Experiments Lain before getting on yesterday, I am very shaken on the issue of my existence. Derealization, and that kind of thing. Not in a bad way, but strong enough that I was seriously considering solipsism again, and stronger than ever before. I am very excited, and need something to bring me down to earth again. So, you of the Wired, what does it mean to exist?

 

Huh...to me , Exsisting is who you are , the people that you meet , the gender you are , everything that makes you , YOU , to not exsist , it means not having anything , no one that knows you , it would be like , not even being born , i think i'm talking nonsense now... o.o

 

That's an intriguing question.

To me, existing is being who you are; being you're own person. From the clothes you wear, to the food you eat, to the people you hang out with and the things you do. It's all being a part of existing and being you're own person. God, put us on this Earth so we can exist and live the way we want to live.

Also, if you are a person who lets everything happen around you (not saying that you are that type of person) and lurks in the shadows, you're not truly existing; or living to the fullest. I'm not saying you have bungee jump to "live to the fullest", but just....live, you know? Live in the now, live in the present. Don't dwell on the past or look foward to the future (not saying that you can't be excited for things to come). These, to me, are ways that prevent you from truly existing.

As for solipsism, if you honestly believe that everything but your on opinion is inferior, then there's nothing that can stop you from that. That is, if you truly believe in that.

If you have the slightest thought that solipsism isn't the best path to go down, then there is some chance for you to completly stary from that path. The best thing that I can say for this matter is listen others' opinions carefully, specifically ones that you agree with (or used to agree with for this matter). This could lead you to think that others' opinions are equal to yours and you might stray from the solipsism way of living all together.

I hope this helped you understand how to truly exist and that solipsism is not a good path to go down (to me). Also, if this made no sense to you, I apoplogize.

(I'm only 13. >_>)​

 

Yeah... I am not sure what you meant by that, sorry.

That is all beside the point, though. When I say existence, I mean in a metaphysical and physical sense. Do I have a body? Are you all in my head? Is the world a compromise of our shared subconscious? And so on. Am I one, or am I all? How do you know this? That is the question that I am asking.

Oh, I let nothing happen to me. Things will come at me, but I am a very proactive person. I would say that this is evidenced in my dreams, where I am always the center of events, or make myself the center of them.

I do not think that you understand the concept quite well enough. Solipsism is the belief that nothing exists outside of your mind. So, all opinions that exist would be my own, in a way. It would be up to me, as the conscious part of myself, to pick and choose the best ones. I cannot learn about them without conversing with my subconscious self, that you would be a part of, were that the case. So, I would be forced to consider your opinion so that I might come to understand my own more fully. Exploring the world would be as exploring myself.

Solipsism is not a path, but a way of seeing the world. I may live the same exact life believing that the world is all of my creation that I would have if I had believed that I was a part of the whole, or one among many. The problem with your last sentence there, specifically, is that I cannot take others' opinions to be equal to my own, because there are no others to have opinions. All opinions originate in my subconscious mind, as do the people who speak them.

Anything more?

 

Yes and now I think I understand.

So basically what you're saying is, that everything is in your own sub-concience?

Does that mean that your sub-concience created 9-11? Or the Holocaust? Or even the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? This would also mean that your sub-concience created everything, correct? From the trees, to computers, to even me. That would mean that you also created the past, (will create) the future, and your own birth as well?

 

That is correct. But, as I am the only mind, all of the those things would have been like a movie to me. No one was actually harmed, as no one really existed in the first place. And that is if I had actually seen them happen. It is hard to say that the past ever happened at all, actually, even now. The only evidence that I have that I posted this thread is that I can see it and that I remember posting it. That is hardly evidence enough to prove it on. My memories could have been altered, and the thread been created by someone else, and so on. Proving anything regarding time objectively is nigh on impossible, as time is relative, and the past may be rewritten, even in a physical world where I and all others actually exist with bodies and all of that. As for the future, that is correct. Things that happen in dreams are probably not planned out beforehand, and yet your mind creates them as they happen. You also remember things in dreams that never happened in reality. So, your mind creates the past and the future in dreams. Solipsism amounts to seeing reality as a dream that you are having, and will continue to have forever.

 

More on topic...

We probably spend too much time questioning things that do not matter; I myself am no exception when it comes to this. Why waste time questioning solipsism? I certainly understand where you are coming from - I have yet to find a way to prove reality, or rather, others' existence. However, questioning said matters will only further confuse you, leading to a cycle of messy thoughts. Been there, done that.

The reason you question others' existence is because you spend too much thought on it.

TLDR; I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION SO I INSIST THAT DISPROVING SOLIPSISM DOES NOT MATTER.

 

To be frank, I've never actually question my reason for existing or my entire existence.

To exist, to me, is to be a person of character and to make one's mark on the world, regardless of how small scale that mark maybe. Even if you're dead, you can still exist through the memories of you from others or through words. When dead you've become tangible, people can twist you around and that becomes your existence.

Existing is what we all do; we all exist in our own ways and we compose each in a different light by the people we meet, the actions we preform, our personality, and what we've done/been doing with our lives.

In terms of actually being in your head, well... Can anyone say that this life of ours really isn't just a big dream or hallucination?

I feel that emotion is what makes us truly exist, something that let's us know we're alive and that even though others can't feel what each of us do along, it just means that they weren't meant to. Really, it's all a matter of what you think; if you say we're all just in your head, then maybe we are, and all of you are all in my head. (i have a headache now)

 

Existing is such a difficult word to truely comprehend. To many it merely means the ability to live as an individual person. But to actually exist... the thought of it can't possibly be comprehended by the mind as it currrently is. Too many factors to include, scenarios to invent, people to think of, the very laws of time and space... I just don't know.

In essence, I believe what we see is what we get in this world. Not literal sight, but the ability to understand that we 'exist' in this world. I try to focus more on the now, anyway. But then again what I believe is not always what is true. But then again you could all be made up by me, so what do I care about what you think, fake beings? : P

Ah, my brain hurts. The topic of existence always does that for me.

 

Please don't do this. Just because something doesn't have perfectly correct punctuation doesn't mean it's ineligible. Apart from that, you didn't add anything of substance to the conversation. You're not supposed to spam. Please edit your post.


As for the subject. I exist, and not in your dream. If this were a dream, then surely you must have a vast pool of knowledge to create something so vast that can expand without your careful inspection. In the end "existing" is something complicated.

Anyhow, just curious. What if I were to reject your existence, if this were a dream? Would I seize to exist? Would the dream world crumble?

 

Ah, don't pick on her too much. She just has high standards (like I do), is all.

Indeed. And why should I doubt the fact that my subconscious is all-encompassing? On expansion, I have little reason to believe that anything exists outside of my sphere of experience. You could say that all of my knowledge is dormant until I come across it for careful inspection. Even in a physical world, there is a supposition that all knowledge lies dormant, and that learning is, in reality, a recollection of things already known but now forgotten. In the dream world, this would make me god of sorts. A fun idea, that...

You say that you exist, but why should I believe you? You cannot prove my existence to yourself, and I cannot prove yours to myself. As far as I can tell, there is no way to prove what a thing is; only that something is, and that you are experiencing it now. That is all...

In a general dream, something like the first option would happen, yes; but, you could not reject my existence in my dream, because you would be a part of my imagination. So, if it is your dream, then I do not exist, and if it is mine, then you do not. Rejecting the existence of something that is not truly there will not make you cease to exist, I do not think, though there is no proof of that yet. The imagination has no will of its own, to my knowledge. If it did, then I would not be alone anymore, but still could not prove that it had a will of its own; only that I percieved it as such.

 

Aw, it's fine. Perhaps I was just being an *******, a trait that I probably learned from you (according to AYAME!). I'll edit the post.

 

Ah, the classic rebuttal. I question because I hate to assume. Assuming that what I see is real or exists as I see it is something that I cannot do. I have mentioned my hatred for faith elsewhere, and that ties in here, but that does not stop me from searching for truth in some way down the line. It is just that it has to be a proven truth before I will buy into it at all.

The part in bold here is contains a loaded word, I think, and that is reason. There does not need to be a reason to exist in order for you to exist. I have a will. That is good enough for me.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but the problem is that I cannot prove the existence of those other people, so how can they remember me after I die? And, furthermore, how can I die? It is a slippery slope with that one.

Well, it looks like someone gets the point here. Always a fun subject, don't you think?

 

Thanks for the edit, Laria. And welcome to Khv.

Anyhow, yeah the subject is fun in the mindeffing way. This kind of reminds me of Eternal Sonata. But reversing the roles, what if we thought what you are thinking right now? What would you answer to that.

Moreover, if this dream world is yours, does this mean that we do not act independently, or is your mind acting independently from the dream you?

 

I would not be able to prove that you had a mind, even then, and possibly especially then, because we would all be thinking the same thing. It kinds of lends itself to the proposition that I control all of you, in a way.

That could go either way. But, I would have to say that if it moved independently, then it would not be my mind any more. It would have a will of its own. So, the assumption would be that you do not act independently, but that I am not consciously controlling you right now. On some deeply subconscious level, I want you to exist. That is why you do. And so on...

 

In literal terms you simple have to be but on a much more philosophical level, it is to have an impact on others, whether its through them remembering you, meeting you, speaking with you, Touching you and knowing you. The impact of your existence is what defines you. Some people such as myself will simply fade with the people with whatever people can stand me existing beside them, while people like Hitler or Obama or Mel Gibson will all be remembered for the good, the bad or the entertaining they did in their lives.

 

I think it's so abstract and metaphysical of a concept that defining it into a neat package is a useless attempt. It's unmeasurable. Incomprehendible. To humans anyway. It's an interesting subject no doubt, but so mind melting that I trt not to dwell on it otherwise I'll go mad.

Ah another piece of proof that Godwin's Law is true.

 

I meant in literal terms, but thanks anyway.

Not to me, really, but I think about these things all of the time. I basically wanted some kind of objective logical stance that reasons for or against the existence of other people and the things around them. I do not struggle with depersonalization, but with derealization. I probably asked the wrong question, in that case. I am concerned with the world around me more than myself, but I ask about myself because I may myself be the world around me. It is hard to say.

 

I do aswell think about such things both externally and internally of my self. I think it's healthy to keep questioning things and pondering on them, just the particular question on existence isn't something I'm adamant in since I'm not sure what to believe. Still the question was good and the after thoughts on existence being created from a sole persons perspective (namely yours) was very interesting and true in a lot of ways. To one person who knows know better, what else is there apart from what we experience rather than what we are told to believe. Just because we are told that there are galaxies and stars light years away doesn't mean they actually exist in our thoughts since there not part of out lives, and their existence is questionable as a result.

And I'm probably opposite in the respect that I am more concerned with questions about myself than the world around me. I feel that if I can understand myself I'll be able to understand the world and my place within it. But there are always more questions than answers.

 

Yes... And I like it that way, really. When you stop feeling the need for answers, everything is a lot easier to deal with no matter what. On understanding myself, I already feel that I understand myself well enough or can question myself at any time. The world is passing me by right now, so why should I put it off and focus on myself so much? A conflict of interests, I think, in that respect.