Body Count, Spirit Count, Heart Count, Keyblade Count [Days, BBS, KH1, KH2 Spoilers]

Throughout the games, the bodies, spirits and hearts of Sora and Kairi get more and more spread out. With BBS, it's become convoluted enough for me to go through and try to make sense of it. Oh, and I'm going to try to count the Keyblades too. Might as well do Terra while I'm at it.

BBS:

Ven, a normal boy, has his heart ripped in two. The darkness is extracted and made into Vanitas, while Ven is forced to bond with young Sora's heart in order to remain alive. Vanitas resembles Sora, because of the bond Ven made with Sora. Both Ven and Vanitas have a Keyblade at this point in time.

Ven's heart is then damaged in the fight with Vanitas. It takes full refuge in Sora. Vanitas is destroyed, as is his Keyblade. Ven's body is locked away in Castle Oblivion until the present point in time. Sora now effectively has two hearts. Ven has a Keyblade. This may or may not go to Sora.

Terra's body is possessed by Master Xehanort. MX's body/spirit are unaccounted for. We'll assume they died/vanished. Terra's body now houses three hearts: His own, Master Xehanort's, and Eraqus'. Eraqus' body/spirit are unaccounted for. Terra's Keyblade is left with his armour, housing a remnant of his will/emotions. Terranort uses MX's Keyblade.

Eraqus' Keyblade is inherited by Aqua. She leaves her own Keyblade and armour with Terranort when she sends him back to the realm of light. We know these are placed in Ansem's Study by the time of KH2. We know Aqua and Eraqus' Keyblade are in the Realm of Darkness since the end of BBS.

Terra selects Riku to be a Keyblade wielder.

Mickey is seen with Starseeker.

KH1:

A Keyblade goes to Riku, but changes its mind, and instead goes to Sora. This Keyblade is not Terra's Keyblade, although it may be one he sent to Riku. Terra's Keyblade is with the Lingering Sentiment in the Keyblade Graveyard. This Keyblade is probably not Ven's, as Riku has no claim on Ven's, yet he does on the Kingdom Key. We'll say that it was a new Keyblade, intended for Riku, but pulled to Sora due to Sora's purity and Ven's heart.

Kairi's body/spirit are lost to the darkness. Her heart resides in Sora. Sora now has three hearts. Riku revives Kairi's body/spirit. Sora returns her heart, causing her to awaken. He loses his own heart. Kairi revives him with weird powers. Kairi's body and spirit become Namine. Sora's body and spirit becomes Roxas. Ven's heart also enters Roxas.

Wait, what? Something has gone horribly wrong here.

Counting up the bodies: Kairi has one. Namine has one. Sora has one. Roxas has one. Ven has one. Total: 5
Counting up the hearts: Kairi has one. Namine has none(?) Sora has one. Roxas has one. Ven has none. Total: 3
Counting up the spirits: Kairi has one. Namine has one. Sora has one. Roxas has one. Ven has one. Total: 5
From somewhere, we've obtained two extra spirits, and two extra bodies. The only solution I can think of is to make Sora into a walking Heart until KH2. We'll also take Namine's body, making her into a walking spirit. Finally, we'll cut out Ven's spirit by saying it entered Sora along with his heart, making him into little but a corpse. We can then pass it onto Namine, so that she actually has a spirit. (It can't be Kairi's, 8ecause she's still alive with her own.) It's stingy, but we're trying to make ends meet here. The only other option is to spawn a spirit out of nowhere.

So revised:
Counting up the bodies: Kairi has one. Namine has none. Sora has none. Roxas has one. Ven has one. Total: 3
Counting up the hearts: Kairi has one. Namine has none. Sora has one. Roxas has one. Ven has none. Total: 3
Counting up the spirits: Kairi has one. Namine has one. Sora has none. Roxas has one. Ven has none. Total: 3

Mickey is seen with Kingdom Key D.

Now time to count up the Keyblades.
Sora has one, Roxas has one, Ven has none(?).

As for Terra:
Let's assume all three hearts went to Darkness. We're also going to assume Xehanort's and Eraqus' bodies are gone, and their spirits are in Terra. Ansem, Seeker of Darkness has Terra's heart, Xehanort's heart and Eraqus' heart. Xemnas (Terra's body) has Terra's spirit, Xehanort's spirit and Eraqus' spirit.

Master Xehanort's Keyblade is unaccounted for.

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness is defeated. The hearts go into stasis, waiting for Xemnas to be defeated, according to Nomura interview.


Days:

Roxas uses Ven's Keyblade, while Sora uses his own, which he 'stole' from Riku. No problems here.

Xion is introduced. She either has a Keyblade of her own, or uses Sora's. She steals a few of Sora's memories, as does Roxas. She dies, releasing the memories. Roxas gets her Keyblade. Roxas now has two Keyblades.

(That was significantly easier than expected.)


KH2:

Roxas is locked in a data town. His memories are sealed. His Keyblades are sealed. He is provided with a Data Keyblade. He pulls out his initial two Keyblades before rejoining with Sora. Sora is now a full person, and he has access to Ven's Keyblade to boot. He has his original heart, along with Ven's, which is still tagging along for the ride.

Namine joins with Kairi, so now Ven's spirit is in Kairi...

I think I screwed up somewhere.

Even so, I'll go with it. Ven has a body, Kairi has two spirits, Sora has two hearts. Ven has a Keyblade and Sora has two Keyblades.

Riku gets a Keyblade from somewhere. I'm going to assume it's because of the succession ceremony he did back in BBS. It's also possible that this is where Master Xehanort's Keyblade went, but I doubt it. Riku somehow lends a Keyblade to Kairi. I'm going to assume that this is partially due to the succession ceremony Aqua did in BBS.

Xemnas is killed, meaning Terranort is revived, with Eraqus', Xehanort's and Terra's hearts and spirits.

So currently:

Ven's body is in Castle Oblivion.
Ven's spirit is in Kairi.
Ven's heart is in Sora.
Ven's Keyblade is with Sora.
Terra's heart is in Terra's body.
Terra's spirit is in Terra's body.
Terra's Keyblade is at the Keyblade Graveyard with Terra's Sentiment.
Xehanort's heart is in Terra's body.
Xehanort's spirit is in Terra's body.
Xehanort's Keyblade is with Terra's body.
Eraqus' heart is in Terra's body.
Eraqus' spirit is in Terra's body.
Eraqus' Keyblade is with Aqua.
Aqua's Keyblade is in Ansem's Study.

Everyone else has their respective bodies/spirits/hearts/Keyblades with them.

So, how can this log be improved? Where have I screwed up? I dislike how Kairi has Ven's spirit. I'm tempted to simply say that Namine doesn't even have a spirit, which would fit quite nicely with her not-supposed-to-exist motif.

I'd like to account for the travels of Riku too, what with being possessed and all and I'll do that later, when I can be bothered. It's probably not too complicated.

 

How very informtive, well done P! Next if you want why don't you try and do a story time line or something? Eather way well done!

 

What are spirits? I've never seen that mentioned before. Also, we can't assume that Riku has Xehanort's keyblade. It's not been confirmed. If anything, the keyblade was created by the resolve in Riku's heart, using the Soul eater as reference.

Popular belief states that the soul eater transformed into a keyblade. But it is never stated how or why it changes, and it only does near the end of KH2. Also, Sora shouldn't be a walking heart. He had a physical body all the way through CoM.

But what of Namine? Nomura says that Roxas and Namine are special. This gives him the freedom of not having to explain how their wholes still have their bodies, yet have nobodies.

Also, the Kingdom Key was part of the X-blade, same as the D-Kingdom key. Aqua split them in half. One remained in the realm of light, and that's probably how it got to Sora. It is an important keyblade, even if it seems weak due to gameplay purposes.

 

No, I got it from the fact that he had a physical form? Heartless aren't walking hearts alone; more likely, they are the heart taken over by the darkness, in which it takes a more physical look. Take Ansem for example. He had a physical shape, he was probably made out of darkness(BUT SINCE NOMURA ISN'T GOING ON ABOUT ANATOMY, WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE)

Read. It's pretty clear that if they're born under special circumstances, then some added rules or some rules should or shouldn't apply. We don't know what those are. So, we can't say Sora was a walking heart. If anything, a heart would stay in stasis until the Nobody was defeated; as with Ansem. This did not happen, so this furthers the chances of Sora having a body. And if Namine can be said to have a body out of thin air, then why is it so hard to believe Roxas or Sora could be the same?

They're special. We can't be certain, or precise about their creation.

 

Same could be said about Sora. His body could have been made out of pure darkness. Well, most likely light since it was Kairi that made it for him from her "plothug."
Also, you can't use Ansem SoD as a guideline when he's an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. Just as Roxas and Namine are special Nobodies, Xehanort's Heartless is a special Heartless.

The problem is that both Namine and Roxas are confirmed to be special and we've seen hints as to why they're special (Namine = Nobody without a corresponding Heartless and made from a heart with no darkness and came from somebody else's body, not her other's, and has abilities not found in the typical Nobody. Roxas = has feelings, can wield the Keyblade, is hinted at having a heart (Ven's), can wield TWO Keyblades, and has the appearance of someone else instead of his other). Sora, the only special thing about him is he wields the Keyblade. Of course, there's the fact that he has three hearts in him, but he only had one (his) when he was a Heartless. Ven's heart most likely went to Roxas and Kairi's heart returned to her. He may not have had a lot of darkness in his heart, but he still had darkness. Besides being a Keybearer, Sora wasn't special from the time he stabbed himself to the point where he got a body back because he was just one heart lost in darkness. However, he was able to keep his sense of self which I'm assuming goes to the pure strength of his heart.

What I'm saying is, as a Heartless and using his own heart, not Kairi's or Ven's, Sora isn't that special; he just had a strong heart so there's no reason for him to be special.

 

It's guesswork. Trying to make it work under the current structure we've been given. My intention this time around was to try to get the right number of everything to play around with.

A Heartless is a heart coated in Darkness. I make the argument that Kairi's plothug gave Sora's heart a coating of light. It's little more than a fan-theory, but it works better than not trying anything. I'm trying to make ends meet, and this is the easiest way to do it.

 

Yet all heartless have a "physical form(yeah, it's kinda shadow-y gooey and what not), but my point still stands. And I think it's too convoluted to think there's some shell of light or crap like that. As I said in caps, I doubt Nomura would go into a whole anatomy thing to explain the differences in Wholes, Nobodies, Heartless.

I'm basing myself on the fact that Nomura hasn't stated anything regarding the whole body thing. And we're not really clear on the process that occurred with Sora. And how it affected the nobodies he created. We're not sure how Namine got a body. We're not sure how Roxas has a body either. It can be attributed to them being special, as we've not gotten any other official explanation.

There can be many theories, but some are too convoluted. I'd rather the thread be kept on the subject of the counting of things, rather than the how's that we can't be certain of (plus, I'm lazy at debating and discussing xD)

Well, the thing is, that you can't make ends meet when there's not enough to back it up. If we're going officially, the body counts are somewhat flawed, and the whole spirit thing you've mentioned shouldn't be there, either. I haven't seen spirit being mentioned as another component in the KH universe.

There's the heart, body, and the memories...but I can't be certain about the whole spirit thing.

 

My bad, it's 'soul', not 'spirit'.

 

But what is that form? A heartless is just a walking heart with a form. In their case, it's that "shadow-y gooey" thing. We're calling it darkness. Sora, from Kairi's hug to merging with Roxas, was the exact same thing: A walking heart with a form. He couldn't be "whole" which was the entire reason why they needed to merge Roxas back with him in the first place. If you want to consider Sora a Heartless during that time, you can, but he wasn't coated in darkness. Besides, none of us can actually say what Nomura would or would not do. He has included many relevant, but specific details in interviews and the Director Report quite casually. It wouldn't be hard to simply say "Heartless are made when a heart is lost to darkness. The darkness envelops the heart and then searches out more hearts. Sora was special because he kept his sense of self, but he was still a Heartless. He didn't have a body until Kairi gave him one, but Roxas still had his original body. So what was the body Kairi gave him? It was light. Sora was a walking heartless, but one from light, not darkness and he kept his sense of self. It was because he was made from light, not Darkness, that the Keyblade didn't reject him then."
Well, that's how I see Nomura wording it. Think of it this way as well:
we know for a fact that Heartless being slayed + Nobody being slayed after it = Original person coming back.
A similar thing happened with Sora: Heartless was taken care of + Nobody was taken care of = He came back.
The Heartless was taken care of after the heart, and the Nobody after Roxas finished merging with him in KH2. They weren't slain so it's a completely different case, but a similar formula.

No, but we have the clues in the game, which have been stated in this thread. I'm going to use the classic Atheist argument here (Dedicated to P):
Instead of having no explanation on how something came to be, we could simply forsake any train of reasoning and say "Because God made it." (In this case, "Sora is special.")
Or we can take all the clues we have and say "this plus that in this particular situation resulted in this here." If the clues add up and fit together and the conclusion follows the premises, then we have a logical argument, while in the first "God/Special" case we ignore the clues. It's not that we can't be proven wrong at a later time, but it's a decent theory that actually takes the details of the game into account.

But isn't that what we're doing? We're counting things which brings other topics into this particular topic that we disagree on so we argue them. Right now, we're arguing on whether or not the number of bodies is correct.

The memories are in the heart (which is weird because Nobodies retain their memories). The three parts of life in KH are heart (emotions and memories), body (the container), and the soul (gives life to the body). But P just said that he meant soul. I just assumed that's what he meant.

Of course there's also will/essence/whateverthehellTerraleftinLingeringSpirit.

 

Quick things I noticed:

- Aqua's Keyblade and armor is deep within Ansem's study since Xemnas was seen visiting it.
- Ven made the bond with Sora post-Vanitas' creation IIRC. So wouldn't that make Sora look like Vanitas due to his full bond with Ven rather than vice versa?

 

I actually thought about that. Before the English version of BBS came out, someone said that when Ven merged with Sora at the end of BBS, Sora ended up merging with what was left of Vanitas as well and Sora grew up to look like him.

But then everyone started saying that Vanitas looks like Sora, not the other way around and that "it's a mystery" what he looked like before Ven merged with Sora, but that seems strange to me.

 

My bad on Aqua's keyblade/armour. I thought it was in CO, but it could be in Ansem's study, I guess.

Ven made a bond twice. Firstly, to mend his heart. Then he made a full bond. At least, that's what I saw it as.

 

about wat u said for the keyblade riku got that wasn't terras....maybe it was like... a BEGINNER keyblade? like it was a common form or something? or it actually could have been terra's, because the keys differ on the keychain they have.

 

I say it can't be Terra's Keyblade, because Terra's Keyblade is accounted for. It's with the Lingering Sentiment in the Keyblade Graveyard.

I imagine that the Keyblade succession ceremony doesn't pass on your keyblade, but instead gives the person the ability to wield a Keyblade.

 

So what, Vanitas was created without a face and it was only after Ven had his heart mended by Sora that he got a face?

 

Yup, that sounds about right.
After all, Vanitas was just the darkness taken out of Ventus, so perhaps he looked exactly like Ven at first (kinda like the final fight in Aqua's story (not final chapter, reglular story)) and then after Ven and Sora's hearts touched, then Vanitas was also linked to Sora and started to take Sora's appearance.

And before anyone tries to argue that Vanitas has no connection to Sora, let me just remind you that even though Vanitas had his own body, he did state somewhere (or maybe Xehanort mentioned in his reports, I don't remember) that Vanitas could feel what Ventus felt. That's how they knew about his feelings toward Terra and how to lure Ven away from Land Of Departure.

So Vanitas has a connection to Ven's heart, which was touched by Sora's heart. Ipso facto, Vanitas has a connection to Sora's heart.

 

Also, it makes general sense. Sora is a normal boy, so he's not likely to change appearance to match Vanitas. Vanitas is a being of darkness, and in general, they're more malleable than beings of flesh.

 

roxas - ven's heart soras body & soul

namine - created with kairi's soul but lacking a body, which is what would make her a special case nobody...

sora was a heartless with a heart of sorts till he fused with roxas, sora's body and soul are in roxas leaving sora just a heart

ven still has his body and soul

master xehanort's body faded into light...i'm assuming this is the only way to break the cycle of splitting into heartless and nobody and then reforming
i'm thinking mx's soul also went into terra due to the keyblade terranort wields being mx's hear me out
i think the strength of your heart only qualifies you to wield the keyblade...i believe your soul is what gives it shape and keychains are a way to channel the soul
which is why adding a new keychain changes its shape...

if you soul and heart leave the body...then the body dissolves with no way to become a nobody

Eraqus put his heart into terra...and left his soul in his keyblade...which is why the keyblade is just lying around when aqua finds it as otherwise the keychain would have left it
and it would have died...

also...we've not gained extra souls we've have just as many as we need...kairi till namine joined her was having the opposite problem of sora...had a body and heart but no soul
which is also why riku had to summon her keyblade for her i would assume...no soul to manifest it with herself...plus the fact she didn't know she could...

ven is having a kairi moment going on...no heart but his soul and body haven't become a nobody...why? because he completely annihilated vanitus he is still a heart of pure light
a sort of prince of heart and nobodies are trapped inbetween light and darkness...but ven having no darkness can't be trapped between anything other then light...so his body remains
in the realm of light also...

so yeah...