Countries derogate other countries' economies

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Styx, Nov 23, 2012.

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Is this still fair?

  1. Fair game

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  2. Not done

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  3. On the fence

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  1. Styx That's me inside your head.

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    Earlier today, the Belgian government got wind of the director of the Greater Zürich Area (Marc Rudolf) in Switzerland sending e-mails to companies located (partly) in Belgium, explicitly advising them to move to Switzerland.

    Some literal quotes from the e-mail:
    The rest of the letter mostly consisted of Rudolf praising the Swiss political and financial situation.

    As you can see, Marc Rudolf boldly drags Belgium and other EU countries through the dirt and while it shames me to admit it, he's right on many levels. The question is though: is this still a fair cop?
    Should we advertise at the expense of other economies or should there be a minimum of chivalry? Is everything fair as long as the information is true?

    I myself have a hard time maintaining objectivity on this issue. However, I wonder if such a controversial e-mail was even necessary. Companies can smell profits from light years ahead. I'd assume that if Switzerland really was the economical land of milk and honey, multinationals would have known this much already. They sure as hell know that Belgium isn't doing well.
    Perhaps I would have understood this cutthroat way of marketing better if Switzerland was a desperate country in dire need of economic oxygen but it claims to be anything but that in this very message. While I can't really argue with the content of the e-mail, it still strikes me as a bit...uncalled for.

    But don't you listen to me. For all I know, I'm just being spiteful. Tell me what you guys think.
     
  2. Patman Bof

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    Wait ... are you Belgian ?

    I don' t really see what' s the problem : although I rarely see that kind of message printed in newspapers I suppose it' s not exactly the first one ever mailed. Freedom of speech + competition driven societies = this. You' d have to be blind not to see Belgium is in a tight spot right now, and Switzerland' s thirst for money is notoriously unquenchable.

    Anyway, as you already mentioned, if Belgian companies were desperate enough to consider downsizing I' m not sure Switzerland would be their safest bet.
     
  3. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

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    I am mor conflicted now having done a quick research on Greater Zurich Area.

    Ultimately though, I find this counterproductive for the Swiss to a degree, specifically that they aren't supporting the growth of local business and are instead trying to poach foreign companies with a weaker economic foundation at the moment.

    Unless the the Belgium companies were able to actually able to help support the Belgium economy more then it is now, then I don't really see the point in it. It's unfair and disproportionate, we have a big enough wage gap in the world is let alone a larger economic gap.
    Certainly wouldn't help relations.
     
  4. Patman Bof

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    Our previous president talked about "moralizing capitalism" for a while, which seems to be the broader topic you' re trying to reach. Sounds like an utopia if you ask me, considering no one has the power to pass nor enforce laws on a global scale. If memory serves you said yourself in another thread that competition is unavoidable in societies.

    I' m afraid all we can do is wait for capitalism to reach its unavoidable conclusion and crumble, any law we might locally pass in the meantime would only delay this for a while. Trying to think differently and base our economy on our needs and available resources rather than our impulses would only ostracize us from those who couldn' t care less. Just look how popular a topic ecology is in, say, China.

    Moralizing capitalism ? Lol, we might as well be talking about burning water. But then I' m no economics expert. Far, far from it. I' m not claiming there' s no answer, I just never saw one that looked realistic to me.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Styx That's me inside your head.

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    Yes, I am Belgian. Always have been.
    I know that competition is unavoidable, but I do think that such forms of marketing and advertising require extra careful thought before even reverting to them. Will it reach the effect they hoped, and if not, was it really worth causing a diplomatic squabble? I wouldn't risk making the news by being a dick unless I knew it would really pay off in the end. Switzerland is stable but expensive. Any company that is looking to move its headquarters to make more profit will deduce that much when they consider Switzerland, e-mail or not. I don't think we should actually pass any laws to moralize capitalism, that would indeed be ridiculous, but I advise against kicking countries' shins when there is little to gain.

    As for capitalism, I don't really see how it is better or worse than any other model. Any alternative to capitalism is basically just a shift in power, and therefore equally vulnerable to the wiles of those who control the cash. That being said, I'm no expert on economics either. That's part of the reason I even made this thread.
     
  6. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

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    Talking of moralising economies, governments technically already do this with placement of taxes on big companies that dissuade the crushing of starting or smaller businesses, subsidies to encourage growth of smaller businesses, embargos put in place to dissuade foreign trade, causing an devaluation in your own currency to dissuade buying foreign goods and leaking money out of your economy into another.

    Morality, in part, needs to be a factor in economy to make it work. Without 'morality' we as consumers loss a great number of benefits. For example, promoting the growth of smaller businesses means that consumers have a greater variation in companies to consume from, and big businesses that have a monopoly in the market wouldn't be able to create extremely high and unfair prices.
    It's also no good for the Monopolising company to an extent, they will incur a great amount of costs, the infrastructure of such a large company would be fragile and difficult to work with, government interference would create higher taxes, restrictions, etc. it's usually difficult to overcome these obstacles even for a large company.

    I'm no expert on economics, especially now after it being so lon ago since I last did it, but after three years studying it I can believe when say that 'morality' in exonomics is needed for the economy to work for everyone involved.

    This topic however fails to recognise long term profits, initial cost of moving to a new location and especially diplomatic relations with neighbouring economies. It's just not worth the problems with no certain benefits.
     
  7. Menos Grande Kingdom Keeper

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    I guess is a fair move, companies aren't bind to one country, if it were true Apple wouldn't build Ipods on china.. so if it needed the company can flee to whereever... people will suffer from this, others will thrive, that's how it goes.. the governemts protects or trys to protect their countries, and I guess we are somewhat okay. It's not like when that bank did that work on the greek that made the world into a recession, they could have being gambling with your countries fate, but they didn't.
    But I am no expert also.
     
  8. Patman Bof

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    That would explain why you seemed to understand a bit of French. Are you fluent in French ? Flemish ? Both ? Just curious.

    I didn' t understand why that e-mail would upset you that much, it looked more clumsy than insulting to me. I thought I was missing something so I googled it, turns out that e-mail was also sent to a bunch of American investors.

    It is indeed a marketing technique : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advertising

    Technically it is legal, at least in the US and in France (not sure about Belgium), although each country has its own laws about it. Coke is perfectly allowed to give Pepsi flack in their commercials as long as everything they say is objectively true. In practice, that technique is so rarely used in my country that I can' t even think of an example. Choosing to put the spotlight on your opponents' weaknesses rather than your own strengths reflects poorly on your character, no matter how superior it established your own product to be. It' s a double-edged sword, use at your own risk. Politicians use it all the time, especially in the US, which makes it clear they wasted precious time and resources digging shit. What it really says is "look at how insecure I am".

    If you ask me those e-mails reflect more poorly on Marc Rudolf than on Belgium. If my country was the one being criticized I' d try to take it with a grain of humor. Remember all the flack G.W. Bush gave to France when we refused to blindly bend over ?

     
  9. Styx That's me inside your head.

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    Flemish. I still understand French well enough and can express myself, but I've gotten too rusty to speak or write it fluently.

    It doesn't quite upset me; I just wouldn't do the same thing, for reasons you and I both stated. And yeah, I know that Belgium isn't the only one targeted. He may have forwarded the e-mail to companies stationed in Spain and Italy too for all I know.

    Exactly. I'm pretty sure it's legal here, but much like in France no one really does it.

    I'm the first to appreciate a good joke, but I understand the Belgian government when it said it wasn't amused. Our prime minister has just given its state of the union after several weeks of less-than-smooth negotiations. They don't need this at the moment. Ford had only recently announced to move its factory from Genk to Valencia which would eliminate roughly 10000 jobs: that's a small disaster. I'm not surprised that our politicians felt that this e-mail was a kick when they were already down and take it more personally than they perhaps should.

    Also, I wouldn't take George W. seriously regardless of the subject. XD[DOUBLEPOST=1353856545][/DOUBLEPOST]