Birth by Sleep Create the next kingdom hearts enemy (group effort)

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX' started by Pezz, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. StarSeeker99 Gummi Ship Junkie

    Feb 16, 2009
    Bugger if I know!
    I like it. Works perfect with our idea of bosses having several phases with different appearances. You're getting to something with this.

    I think I'll apply this to the DeHero Desoul I invented.
    Instead of immediately looking like a Desoul Sora, the DeHero would first look like a cloaked dude. Once his health goes down, his cloak will burn, as you said, and then it's true appearance, a deformed Sora, would show up.
    Do you mind if I use your idea for this?
  2. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    I think it sounds pretty interesting, It's kinda like the bosses are going Hulk lolz.
  3. Ryan Finesse Destiny Islands Resident

    I think this would be kind of pointless, for two reasons:
    1. I'm too lazy to read everything you read.
    2. Its square Enix's ideas completely, so it would be pointless to create a whole new brilliant creature like the heartless.
  4. StarSeeker99 Gummi Ship Junkie

    Feb 16, 2009
    Bugger if I know!
    We're doing this for fun. Making a game for real isn't something we can really plan right now anyway.
    We know this won't become the official KH3, but we let our creativity loose and created something we find nice. It's always fun to do this.
  5. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    Hey, it gives me something to do with my life, sad as that is T_T..... we have a wiki site where we post everything. There is a lot less there to read.
  6. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    It's been very quiet recently.... well.... hmm.... we are pretty much done here with the desouls. well almost done. How should it look like when they appear they appear? And what should be the name of the most common form?
  7. Boy Wonder Dark Phoenix in Training

    Aug 31, 2008
    how about Stalker? or Jekyll (yes like Mr. Hyde) something simple.
    or Furies (from anger)? Or dare i suggest, sins?

    i read the first post
    that's it
    so any ideas i use that may have already been posted, i apologize.

    But I think the leaders (yes plural) of the Desouls should be the Devives...since they are more than one at the same time as being one (Call us...Legion. For We Are Many...)they seem to be more powerful. and the leader of the Devives could somehow possibly be more than two hearts/bodies/souls, making him/her/it/them more powerful. (Heart1+Body2+Soul3) I'm not sure how that would work...Maybe a Heartless is being born, leaving a Nobody behind but something messes up and the soul goes into another Nobody conflicting with it's original soul and the souls fuse becoming one? And it receives the power to absorb the heart of a Heartless and absorbs the wrong one?

    Back to the leaders (i'll call them the Legion, ha..with their superior being......Archangel (just a random name, i'm not proposing it))
    This kind of makes me think Devives are more violent than Desouls.
    Like the emotions of one person (Heart) can be extremely angry all the time.
    But the body and soul originally belong to a happy person, so the body is happy in nature (if it can somehow keep a quality of it's Somebody). The anger conflicts with the happiness and this inner conflict makes the emotions go haywire which result in a very violent enemy. More violent than the regular Desouls that are just exaggerated emotions of ONE person.

    }}}}}This idea can kind of be used for the Triadd, since it would have more than 1 heart, body, and soul{{{{{

    So to sum up all my ideas.
    +All regular enemies are Desouls.
    +Devives are the organization that lead the Desouls, other known as the Legion.
    +The leader of the Devives could be Archangel (or something else, epic sounding) who unlike the regular Devives exist as more than two people.
    +The goal of Legion is to collect Kingdom Hearts so the members have an endless supply of hearts, therefore they keep living...existing as Devives, and the more hearts, the more emotional/violent/powerful they become.
    +And they HUNT Nobodies to collect the souls, making them live longer.
    +By Hunting Heartless, they absorb more hearts, therefore absorbing more emotions and memories and becoming closer to gods.
    +Each heart the Devive absorbs makes it evolve. Because it wouldn't just be the memory or emotions of one person. It literally becomes two people in one. Whereas a Devive with one heart and body and fading soul, would be one person with the body of another.
    +The "Legionnaires" don't want to become whole again like Nobodies, they want more hearts to become more powerful until they can....unite all the worlds and rule them all?
    +All Legionnaires wear masks instead of cloaks. No idea why I picked masks, we can't pick helmets or cloaks so i'm not sure what's left...Cape? idk
    And maybe the Legionnaire's work in partners whose bodies they share.
    To expand: They have 5 members (of course they should have more, but 5 is the easiest to use for this example)
    because of my lack of creativity, I'll call them:
    1. DeSora
    2. DeNamine
    3. DeKairi
    4. DeRoxas
    5. DeRiku (the archangel or whatever)

    DeSora is made up of Heart1 and body/soul4
    DeRoxas is made up of Heart4 and Body/soul1.
    Since they have each other's missing elements, they can possibly trade and become whole again. But Legionnaires do not want that. So instead they work as partners who obviously would compliment each other's power and abilities making them extremely powerful and difficult to kill.
    Get what i'm saying?
    DeRiku being made up of more than two people, has no partner but is just as strong as a pair.
    Maybe DeRiku has an ulterior motive to let his subordinates be defeated so he can collect their hearts and become more powerful, collect their souls and extend his life. He only lets them believe they're a team so they can collect as many hearts and souls as powerful so when he finally absorbs them, he'll receive a greater amount

    Get what I'm saying?????

    and again
    All names I used are suggestions but I merely used them for example. I'm not dead serious about them.
    Organization: Legion
    Members: Legionnaires
    Leader: Archangel
    those don't really sound Kingdom Heartsy
  8. Krowley Moderator

    Jun 18, 2008
    Desouls are like happy meals with no toy lol,

    Nobodies - Dusks
    Heartless - Shadows
    Desouls - Spirits? thoughts? Beings? Animus? Umbras? Phantoms? Mortals? bodies?

    all i can think of at the top of my head

    EDIT - just finished reading previous post.
    I like there being the idea of another organization type deal,
  9. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    yeah, but it's a bit repetitive. That's the whole reason why we are introducing new keybladers, is to make up for lose of the organization. fighting the different keybladers will make for some epic boss battles, just like the org boss battles. plus The Legion is a Ghost Rider villain. "We are many, but we are one" is his line. It would also move us away from the path that we have already set for the story. It's a good idea, but it could involve entirely rethinking the story plot. I'm also not convinced that devives would be the strongest type.

    devives are a heart combined with a body and soul that is nearly compatible. but because they are not completely compatible, the devives' three elements of life probably wouldn't work as well together as the three elements of life in a normal desoul. however seeing that a devive creation involves a nobody, it means that they originally had a strong heart. that being the case devives are still up there when it comes to power, but they are not all the way up there. As of right now, I would have to say that a dehero would stand among the strongest type of desoul because they have a strong heart and all three elements of life are fully compatible.

    As for devives being connected, I don't think that this would go too far. Since the conditions that create a devive rarely happen, most devives would have only one counterpart. And even if it wasn't a rare event, I don't think that their minds would be connected. I believe that the mind resides in the soul. I think this is the case since Nobodies, unlike heartless, are intelligent. granted this could also mean that the mind resides in the body, but I think it is more likely to reside in the soul since, after all, the body is only a vessel. I'm not even sure if devives hearts would be connected. there would be some sort of attraction between a devive and its counterpart(s), but I think that that is probably it.
  10. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    actually, they don't represent dawn in the least. they probably represent light more than anything else, or even better, a light going out. fades would work best for them.

    I'm all for fades, as in a fading light.

    k got it
  11. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    I like the name better too, though I'm concerned that some people won't understand what it is referencing. btw brexen, did you ever manage to get to the wiki site? Did you try using a regular computer?
  12. StarSeeker99 Gummi Ship Junkie

    Feb 16, 2009
    Bugger if I know!
    I too agree with the name "Ember". And in order to make the symbolic slightly more obvious, the Ember's "candle" (on top of their head) must really give the impression of a candle. Remember that Desoul drawing Pezz did? So that would be an Ember. Notice the "candle" that sticks out of his head. It's green, like his body. I suggest that we change the color of the candle's "flame" to purple, just like the Desoul's eyes.
    Therefore, the Emebr would be green, have a green ting sticking out of its head, that ends up with a purple flame. It doesn't need to be a real flame ; it could just be the shape of a flame.
    I think this would make the symbolic more obvious, as well as make Embers more colorful. It looks great when I imagine it. What about you?

    About lilbueno's ideas : Devives, or Devines, are they really stronger? Pezz suggested that no, but I think they would. Yes, it is made out of compatible elements that blindly work together, but a normal Desoul is pretty much the same thing. Its elements ARE messed up already, but the major difference, compared to a Devive, is that its Elements are from the same person. Since the Desouls are strong (stronger than Heartless and Nobodies, right?), it means that having messed up Elements isn't that much of a problem.
    So Devives can be stronger than ordiary Desouls.

    I don't like the idea of an organization leading the Desouls. Not only it's repetitive with KH2, but we also thought of Xehanort being the big bad guy, and I dont' think we ever pictured him having friends. Only manipulationg Corruption and Despair.

    Last but not least, even if Devives have one or mroe counterparts, can they really meet them? Can the Elements reckognize their original complements? If so, which should be the case, then it indeed means that the Devives will be attracted by their coutnerparts.
  13. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    K, let's go with the name Ember then. about the color, I was thinking of experimenting with a purple body and pale blue eyes. I like the color eyes that Zillagod made. I think it would look nice.
  14. StarSeeker99 Gummi Ship Junkie

    Feb 16, 2009
    Bugger if I know!
    I'm personally a bit torn between them. Devive comes from Revive, which suits perfectly this kind of Desoul. But Devines sound awesome as well, especially if we talk about how they seek divine power or something like that.

    I'm not sure. Dieties aren't in the Kingdom Hearts Universe (except fro Olympus Coliseum). We can still play around with this idea.
  15. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    actually devive was my name. it's a play off the word revive. all pure breed desouls except embers have a name that is based on the way they lost their Sense of Self (SOS). Devine would probably be better for someone who losses their SOS because of arrogance
  16. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    well if we do this, then we may have to redo a bunch of stuff that we have already established about the desouls. We said that willpower lies in the heart, because the heart is what gives a person strength. therefore, Willpower, which is what gives you strength, would lie in the heart.

    also we've been using the term will to refer to the will to survive. When death comes, only the heart remains alive.

    Death is defined as: when the soul leaves the body.

    The body and soul cannot survive by themselves, they need each other. so when death happens, meaning that the soul leaves the body, both the soul and the body would cease to be.

    What is interesting here is that the heart is the only thing that remains alive. when a human dies, the heart returns to KH. once there, it waits till the time comes for it to be reborn into a new body and soul. From this, StarSeeker99 and I have deduced that this trait could be described as "The will to survive."

    It's Kh logic. Hearts have a desire to stay alive. when their body and soul dies, then they seek out a new body and soul to be reborn anew.

    I don't believe that all three elements of life contain will. I would need some proof to believe that.

    However I do think that a person's sense of self is contained in all three elements of life. We could use that for determining if a desoul has high defense, magic, or strength (I like that idea a lot! Great Idea! :)).

    A SOS is, in a sense, life. I could explain why I think this if you would like to hear it. :)

    Edit: Nobodies don't have a Will. They are only born if a person has a strong will, or Yen Sid said, "a strong heart." By saying that, Yen Sid pretty much said that the will resides in the heart.
  17. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    The soul is what contains the mind. If you go to and type in soul, mind is considered a synonym. A nobody can live on because they can think; because they have a mind. And nobodies aren't even alive. The don't even exist. it is because they are not alive that they do not need a will to survive.

    A Nobody's "existence" relies on memories. without memories, they can't exist. they don't need a will because they have memories to "exist", not to live but to "exist". the only nobody that can "exist" without memories is Roxas and that is because he has a heart, which means he has a will to survive.

    And yes, strength does come from the heart. why do you think Xehanort is always after KH. To become all powerful. He lusts for power. Power does come from hearts, not the soul, but the heart.

    if you ask me, I think that the soul is much more magical than the heart. think about it, you need brains to use magic, and going by the above, the soul contains the brains. the heart is for the most part instinct. It isn't capable of using really powerful magic, at least not most hearts.

    you are completely right about the body though. The body is the vessel. It takes all the damage. the body does stand for defense.

    listen, I don't really want to have an argument here. We both obviously know a lot about about the Kingdom hearts universe, but this is where I stand on the subject. I really don't have much of a life at the moment. I've practically read the entire kingdom hearts wiki and have studied the game thoroughly. It's not something I'm particularly proud of, I read many pages more than twice over.

    From what I know of the game, Nobodies don't need will's to "exist". however, I don't think that either of us are going to budge here so I will leave the decision up to the other two who help me manage the topic. StarSeeker99 and Kme92.

    please, let's leave this up to them, I want to be friends here. If you want, you may make another argument for them to review before make their decision. I'll contact them to let them know. :)
  18. StarSeeker99 Gummi Ship Junkie

    Feb 16, 2009
    Bugger if I know!
    Okay, so we have Brexen and Pezz in the middle of a literature joust.

    First off, I'll mix both of your ideas : Pezz says all Elements can have SOS, and Brexen says all Elements have Will.
    But those things are very similar. Not identical, but still.

    You know who you are, and stick to it = SOS
    You know what you want, and stick to it = Will

    Now, listen, both of you. Before I go on, consider what I just wrote. Since the SOS and the Will are so similar, maybe you can both rethink your ideas. Try to think what happens if you replace the Will with the SOS. Rethink your ideas by doing this. Do you like the new result? In case you do, then there's no need to argue here. We can just settle with a happy medium.
    If you really want to keep your ideas as is, then allow me to continue.

    You both have great ideas. At first thought, I'm inclined to agree with Pezz. If we say that something other than the Heart has Will, then we must change the entire Desoul idea. A Desoul means that the Soul feeds on the Heart's Will. Why would he do that when the Soul and Body have Will? But, things don't stop here.

    Interesting point, but not yet complete. "If the Soul could exist without a Body or Heart"... I'm not sure what you mean by that, since it can't exist without them. Not in the realm of the living, at least.
    What you did say about the Soul, alone, actually applies to the Heart. The Heart can survive alone, because it has Will, and will thus do anything to live. Even create a fake Body out of darkness, becoming a Heartless.

    You say everything needs a Will, and I gotta admit that makes sense. How can Organization XIII WANT anything without a Will?
    This is a tricky question, but I got the answer :
    Nobodies don't exist. If you don't exist, but can still walk and fight and think, then you are special... and I told myself you must've "borrowed" something.
    Ironically, we can link this to your ideas of Thron(e?)s, Brexen. But that's another story. Feel free to think about it.
    What that "something" is, well, it could be a reminescence of your Heart's Will. As Pezz pointed out, Nobodies rely on Memories. Therefore, what you "borrowed" is in fact simply Memories. To use them, all you need is a mind ; a Soul. So, simply put, Nobodies don't have a Will per se, but they remember their previous self's Will.
    You and your cousin had great ideas, too. The Hearts of Kingdom Hearts "radiate" Will? That's perfect! Many Nobodies have their Hearts inside KH, while the others might eventually have their Hearts go there. That's one of the many reasons they live in TWTNW. They are closer to what keeps them "alive", even though they don't exist.

    "That fool Ansem said the Heart's true nature was beyond his understanding. But it's not beyond mine! Hearts are the Source of all Power!"
    Well, Power, no matter now exactly we define it, does come from the Heart. But that's not the whole story. True power, the greatest power, comes from something that neither Ansem nor Xehanort could see. It comes from Life ; from the UNION of all Elements.
    Think of Sora. His determination, feelings, and sense of justice, all coming from the Heart, are his "true power". But what could he do without a Body? The Body is essential in this universe. As for the Soul, well, that's a little more complex. I would venture saying that the Soul is the most determining part of someone ; the most individual part. A Heart comes and goes. A Soul comes once, and goes once. Not coming back. Not unless we open that Realm of the Dead discussion again.

    Now, let's link this to your argument. The Heart is strong, and has a Will, because it can survive on its own, and reincarnate in another being. The Body and Soul can't do that, because the moment they separate, life ends. The Heart can live on its own, but not the other Elements. Even Nobodies have the little issue of not existing. Being a Nobody is a truly sad story ; no feelings, need to borrow what you need to keep "existing"... all this because the Heart left. That's why I say that only a Heart has Will.

    Finally, think of real life. How many people want to live their lives again? How many religions think of reincarnation, of afterlife, and so on?
    Back to the KHU, countless Souls (in this case, human minds) want to continue living after death, but only the Heart can do that. No matter how much we desire reliving our lives, it won't suffice ; only the Heart can do that. Therefore, my personnal conclusion is that Will is in the Heart, because it is the one that can do the most amazing things. If the Soul had a Will, maybe, just maybe, it could use it to follow the Heart, and leave the Body behind. But that never happens. The closest thing to that is probably the Nobody, which, as I postulated, needs to "borrow" a Will in order to live out of existence.

    I'll stop here, because I just shattered my resolution to keep things simple.

    Suffice to say that I like both your ideas, and I'm myself saddened by the fact they contradict each other.
  19. KeybladeSpirit [ENvTuber] [pngTuber]

    Aug 1, 2007
    Girl ️‍⚧️
    Can I get something explained real quick?
    Sense of Self is basically sentience, right?
    So Desouls are basically humans that are not sentient?
    Sorry if this is supposed to be obvious
  20. Pezz Kingdom Keeper

    We have a FAQs page on the wiki that should explain a lot. look through that and if you have any more questions, feel free to ask. here a link

    Section C refers to Desouls, and we have start a section on the sense of self in Section E. Hope this helps!