Birth by Sleep Everything On Keyblades

Hey, I'm not sure if I did, but did I see the Brotherhood sword in the secret ending from KH2FM? Towards the end I think. Why is that a keyblade?

(Hope this question's relevant)

 

Whats the brotherhood sword? And yes... if it has something to do with Keyblades, and "swords" from the BbS video, its relevent.

 

Yes, Sora's heart. He had a strong connection to Sora. I think you kind of aided his theory. Sora does have a very strong heart. It got channeled through Roxas, and was still strong enough to affect Axel.

Yeah, must have been Riku "splitting" his keyblade, not so much Kairi having her own.

Keyblade war? Sorry, but I think that the keyblade war was what we saw in the teaser. As for the keychains, I think it is not too much of a stretch to say the chains were linked to peoples hearts. I doubt that if I stuck any old Keychain on a blade, it would do anything. I think a keychain can represent bonds to people's hearts, as well as the state of the owner's heart. You never hear anyone say "oh look, I found a keychain, here Sora!" The gifters do not state where they got the chains. I think it could be the chains appeared from their heart, and they felt compelled to give it. Or in the case of KH2, it just appeared to Sora because of the bond.

What Terra did was physically alter the form of his blade, not magically change it. (if you can understand that) What doubling the blade does I assume requires a bit of heart energy. Sora used his friends, I think it could be said that Riku drew on Kairi to split his.


Phew! You are good イルクズ

(what is your name in English?)

 

Kairi's Keyblade had a Key-Chain so I guess that makes it real...

 

What I meant was, Roxas relied on his intellect. Which Sora hardly ever does. Whether it proves this theory or not, I do not know, but the fight against Roxas in FM clearly shows that Roxas was more skilled with the keyblades than Sora was at the time of the battle. You even get access to a new Drive Form after beating him.

... I fail to see how a 'war' could take place between only five people. Unless you're calling the final battle against Xemnas a 'war' also?
In Kingdom Hearts, there is one Keychain you always have, and one Keychain you never have, yet you always get both in the latter half of the game. Why is this?
I'd have to admit though, I'd do that whole "I found a keychain!" thing just to irritate Sora. But either way, the keychain itself is always something that triggers Sora's memories of that place. Kairi's Good Luck Charm, Auron's Sake bottle, Roxas's Charm, Cloud's Pendant thing. You get the idea.

I... think I understand what you're trying to say. Yet, Roxas was supposedly the first person to do this. He, who had no memories of friends to draw on, split his keyblade into two. Two keyblades he should NOT know about. I'm willing to bet that Roxas wasn't able to dual-wield until the events that happened at Castle Oblivion... Which would bring up an interesting point... Hmm... Seems like Roxas's story is important after all. And here I thought Days was just a gimmick.

Name's Erkz. Got it memorized? *bricked*

 

I would say that could be down to many things though. He trained with the org, so his techniques would be different from Sora.

Also, he wanted to win more than Sora. That was his last chance to survive, to not fade into oblivion. (I assume that is what he thought it was) He was far more desperate. He fought in a bezerk rage.

Really? Considering how many people usually fight in KH, I would say five is tons. Usually we got a one on one at best. I would hesitate slightly as calling the death of the Org a war, but it seems to fit the bill.

Lost me there sorry. What are these keychains?

You get the idea. keychains are related to memories, not just any old trinket connected to the blade.

Not memories of friends to draw on, actual friends This is why Donald and goofy vanish (out of gameplay I see it as just drawing on their heart strength. My opinion about Roxas is that his blades are special org weapons, as well as blades, so they do not follow all rules of keyblades. (or he draws from Sora's heart)

got it. At some point I will add you to my list.

 

... That's the thing. The only techniques that Roxas uses that are different from Sora's are his Nobody based powers. And besides, if he didn't want to fade into Oblivion, why not just reject DiZ's offer, and walk right back out of the Virtual Twilight Town alongside Axel? And while I agree he fought in a berserk rage, I don't agree that it was out of desperation. He wanted answers. Answers he could only obtain by fighting Sora one last time.

... I'll let this rest for now... War is war, and as such, has an ambiguous meaning. We'll have to wait to see what Nomura means by it.

... Kairi's Good Luck Charm. The keychain you always have. Oathkeeper.
... and the black version of Sora's pendant, the Dark Crown. The keychain you never have. Oblivion.

... Exactly. It CAN be any old trinket. Though the number of memories seems to affect the strength *points at Sweet Memories*, as long as Sora can recall some sort of... familiarity from it, he can turn it into a keyblade. Ultima Weapon and Fenrir flabbergast me with regards to this though...

No. Roxas's weapons are bona-fide Keyblades. Riku did attest to this upon fighting Roxas himself. And party members disappearing is the result of Sora driving, not specifically Dual-Wielding. *Points at Wisdom Form.*

... List? Oh. XD

 

I believe Keyblades do not represent Memories, but represent Worlds.

Remember, "when a world loses something, it opens up its heart, waiting for its return." Its a quote from KH1. That means every world lost something.

Notice, whenever you lock a world heart in KH 1, you get a keyblade. Also notice that each keyblade seems to look most natural in a certain environment.

I mean, yeah, sometimes you get two keyblades from one world in the game, but its usually two drastically different sides of that world.

I mean, look at Olympia and The Underworld keyblade (you know, the one with berzerk charge) its almost like they came from two different worlds.

Also, Oathkeeper may be from Destiny Islands, wheras Oblivion may be from the World of Darkness, since Riku is connected to that world.

Also, Ultima may be from Kingdom Hearts itself, and Fenrir may be from Midgar.

Just thought I'd add something while you guys are debating. Feel free to shoot as many holes as you can.

I think this is the only way to explain the randomness of "Oh, you beat a boss, heres a keyblade."

Also, the stronger connection with that world, the stronger the Keyblade.

 

Yes ICSP, that also occured to me too. The thing that turned me off that was the things such as KH2, and the keychains appearing after a boss, not after a locked world, and also the one winged angel, and Gullwing.

 

... Sorry to say this, but, if that were true, then Oathkeeper and Oblivion's stats would be reversed.

... Exactly. So I guess it's back to the "Any old trinket that holds dear memories for the keyblade wielder" theory then.

 

If any old trinket which holds memories with the weilder makes a strong keyblade, is defeated by Fenrir.

Fenrir has no memories with Sora, its just a gift Tifa gives him, and you only meet Tifa twice. It does represent Cloud, but you only meet cloud twice in KH1, and twice in KH2. And its not like you guys went on all kinds of adventures together. You just kinda bumped into Cloud. So no real memories were formed.

It would make more sense that Keyblades represnet their respective worlds.

Gulwing could be whatever world those faries were from. One Winged Angel? Isnt that just in CoM? Or did I miss it?

 

Oh whoops, I forgot to say. Its the sword Wakka gives Tidus in Final Fantasy X. It sticks out because it's bright blue.

The One Winged Angel keyblade is from Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix (I). You get it when you defeat Sephiroth.

 

Hmm? Perhaps not desperation for freedom, but desperation for answers. He had nothing to loose there, and everything to gain. I would call that situation desperate.

I suppose. But I still think war can be considered in the Legend of Zelda meaning. Apparently OoT was a war, by the creator's standards, as it was referred to as such in the game "A link to the Past" (Sorry about bringing that into the discussion!)

I have a new theory. The keychains go dull after a certain amount of time. The memories they are linked to need to be kept fresh. This explains why Sora looses all his Keychains in KH2. He would still have all his KH1 chains, but the memory needed to be refreshed. When it was refreshed, some keychains morphed into new forms to represent the memories. So with this theory he has Kairi's charm, but cannot use it. (Perhaps too rooted in fiction to be any good, but I like it)

ICSP, as for Fenrir, it seems as if what happened there was enough to form a bond of Sora's heart. Remember, it is not only length of something, but the strength of it. Having a good friend of yours vanish into a portal with an enemy is certainly strong enough. Perhaps the keyblade's strength is the strength of the person represented by the chain.

Yeah. So any old trinket, yes. The memories would not affect strength though, but the ability to use it. Like you said, Fenrir disproves this theory. (as stated in my theory above.)

Good point. Regardless of that, we know Keybladers can split the keyblade if needed. We can attribute it to anything, be the power of friendship, or the moon's lunar cycle!

Oh?

 

... Okay, now I agree it was out of desperation.

... Besides the obvious problem with that statement, I don't see how OoT was referred to in a game that was released before it was even conceived. o_O

... Hmm... Could it be possible that Sora's memories of Kairi and Riku were strong enough to keep Oblivion and Oathkeeper unchanged? I mean, if you think about it, even Ultima Weapon changed.

Best theory ever. Only one that explains why Oathkeeper is so bloody weak. But... It assumes that all keyblades represent a person. Just who exactly- o_O Holy crap. They can all represent a person besides Ultima.
... D: Maybe that's why Nomura said that Oblivion and Oathkeeper were Sora's memories of Kairi and Riku. He was hinting at the nature of keyblades. Good show, dood.

Officially revised into the "Any old trinket that bears strong memories of a person dear to the keyblade wielder" theory.

I'm going to bite my tongue on that last part until I see Terra Dual-Wield.

 

Yay!

D'oh... I keep forgetting that most gamers do not study the Zelda timeline. Never mind. Forget that example.

Possibly. The Oblivion still represents Riku pretty well, and Sora is more Oathy towards Kairi every game! I think more likely the Oathkeeper and Oblivion were the key keyblades of the game, and the design was too good to revamp. Either way works.

I think all can represent a person. Baring the default blade, all do. Also, I could attempt to argue that Ultima represents a pure heart, forged through toil, but that seems strongly Fanfic type stuff, so I better lay off.

Damn it! That was MY bullet to fire!

Yeah, but then I will just redirect you to my keyblade thread. TA-DA! http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=30872

I doubt he will be able to, unless it is literally morphing his "keyblade" into two.

 

I still believe keyblades represent memories.

If keyblades represented worlds then why would someone get a keyblade specific to a character? fenrir, which is clouds keyblade, and Sleeping lion which is leon's are both keyblades that represent them and not Hollow Bastion. And Auron's keyblade? Fatal Crest? How do those represent Olympus...? Oblivion does not represent TWTNW it represents riku. and Oathkeeper doesnt represent Twilight Town, Sora gets it because he was thinking about kairi.

There is no such place as "the world of darkness..." theres The End of The World and the Dark Realm.

oh, and i know this was a little while back but in terms of roxas and his keyblade usage:

Someone pointed out that each org member has a really strong bond between their weapon and themself. In fact, it's very similar to the relationship sora has with his heart. When u lose, (not counting Olympus Cups) you lose your heart. When an Org member loses, they lose their weapon.

It can be argued because of this fact ^^^ that each org member is their weapon and their weapon is themself. Like when Demyx dies, he forms into a pool of water and then darkness, as does his weapon.
Same with Axel. He put his whole being into an attack (his weapons) and faded away

So roxas not only uses "bona-fide keyblades" as erkz said, but he IS his keyblades. Nobodies are beings that have spirit, memories, bodies but no hearts.
Spirit = Keyblades
Memories = Everything hes experienced from life-death
Spirit+Memories= Roxas AND the keyblade influenced by his memories.

Roxas, although smarter than sora, uses his keyblades better than sora because they r apart of him. He can dash, turn into a light particle or do whatever because its who he is. Roxas cannot do the magic sora can, because SORA knows the magic and applies to his keyblade...the keyblade doesnt know any magic besides light magic.

 

Interesting. But surely even Demyx would not have his sitar taken off him. Roxas got his blade stolen!

 

Fenrir = Midgar
Sleeping Lion = Balam Gardens
Aurons Keyblade = Belville
Fatal Crest = The Underworld (if you couldnt figure out that one, your beyond help.)

And yes, thier worlds do exist in KH canon, its just that none of them have been visited yet. How do I know? Because when Sephiroth and Cloud warp away, Goofy ask "Do you think he went back to his own world?"

I never said Oblivion represents TWTNW. I said it represents The World of Darkness, which is where Riku spent the time between KH 1, and CoM. Its a world for reals, its where the KH2 ending takes place as well. He always has the crown with him, even throughout KH1.

Oathkeeper represents Destiny Islands, he always has the trinket with him, since KH1, it doesnt just pop out of nowhere.

And finally, if its just any old trinket which has memories of the keyblade wielder, then why is Fenrir so powerful, when Sora has alost no emotional memories of Cloud?

I dont think thier weapon represents them. Why? Because until RE: COM Zexion doesnt have a weapon.

I think its better to say that thier weapons are "Proof of Existance." Since you see thier weapons in the gravyard rather than see images of them. Not that they are thier own weapons, just that they use thier weapons to represent themselves.

 

hmm

I'd have to say I think that Keyblades come from hearts or souls, not memories. Heheh sorry to barge in on your discussion. ^^;;

 

Okay, a few questions.

What does gullwing equal? What is bond of flame, if not Axel's? You can hardly argue that it represents between and betwixt. What about Roxas's keyblade? The one that is FM+ only?

If I am allowed, what does the two gold and silver kingdom and queendom represent? I thought they were light and dark, respectively.

Sora did not always have oblivion crown with him, it is black, while Sora's is silver.

But if he has it all through KH2, why not use it? My theory explains this, while yours does not. Also, he does not gain Oathy after visiting Destiny islands. It is merely a trinket of Kairi's.

Define emotional. He seems to be pretty close to Cloud. You don't see your friend vanish with an arch enemy every day. My theory could also be the wielder's strength of heart. (Before you say "OMG, Clould has tons of Darkness!11!!" remember, at the moment he got Fenrir, Cloud's heart was immensely powerful.

:/

You no make senses.

You say in the first sentence

then say

You have thoroughly confuse-ored me. Do you mean the weapons represent them or not?


Oh, and Kingudamu, Memories are the chains that bind hearts together. Remembered or not, the memories are there. Chat to Namine for a bit! :D Oh, and a soul is life, and half of the conscious being. (the other half is contained in the heart)

So you are right, in some regards. They do come from hearts in our opinion. Just that we put it down to memories.