Birth by Sleep Everything On Keyblades

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX' started by Radiowave, Feb 4, 2008.

  1. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Ok Pika Power. you make a valid case. Maybe my theory is wrong, but yours has plot holes in it as well, namely, Fenrir and Ultima Weapon. If the keyblades are merely trinkets which gain thier power from the Keyblade weilders memories... then why the hell are Fenrir and Ultima so damn powerful? Ultima has NO bearing on the story what so ever. You get it from synthesizing it. Also if Fenrir represents Cloud, then why is it so powerful? Its stronger than Oblivion, and Sora barely even knows Cloud.


    In regards to the post about Org XIII's weapons, I came accross wrong. I was tring to counter StormandLightning13's post about how Org XIII are literally thier weapons.

    What I meant to say, they are not thier own weapons, but they use thier weapons to represent themselves.

    They cannot be litterally thier own weapons. Because Roxas gets jacked from kis keyblades, by both Riku, and Sora (in the FM version.) Also, you can take Saix weapon away and use it against him as well.
     
  2. Erkz Kingdom Keeper

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    ... o_O Quite the slip-up there ICSP.

    ... hahaha... Pika_Power's theory explains this. It's not the power of the memories, it's the power of the person in the memories! Cloud is one of the strongest people, non-keyblade-wielding people Sora has ever met. I mean, even Metal Chocobo was a formidable Keyblade back in KH1.

    Nooope. IIRC, Leon and Crew are from Radiant Garden, the only outsiders being Cloud and Tifa. Hence, Sleeping Lion would represent Radiant Garden if that were true, but no, it represents Leon.

    Tut tut tut. Out of line there, ICSP. If it represented the World of Darkness, Nomura would have said it represented the World of Darkness, and not "Sora's memories of Riku". Even though the World of Darkness is a real place, Oblivion is not a representation of it.

    Aside from the contradiction Pika_Power pointed out, the Organization made both the Proof of Existance and the Garden of Assemblage. And on both the identifier is their weapons. Now why would this be? Seeing as they saw themselves as "Flurry of Dancing Flames", "Key of Destiny" and "Whirlwind Lancer", I doubt they chose the weapons to represent themselves. Rather, it's the Organization that chose to use their weapons to identify them. And about Zexion not having a weapon, Nomura said if they weren't making FM+, he'd have come right out and said Zexion's weapon was a Lexicon, but he didn't, because he didn't want to spoil the game for anyone.

    S'ok. Just, during a debate, you should point out why you believe what you believe. Otherwise, people won't hesitate to rip your theory to shreds. A heads up for the future. d(^_^)b

    Just my 99 cents.

    EDIT - Way to post right before me ICSP. <.<;

    I pointed out why already. Ultima is, and always will be, the only exception to the rule. There's a reason why only Moogles can read the recipies yannow.

    ... =.=; Now I'm confused. The absent silhouette which, are their weapons, can assume their wielder's form and structure. Seems like Keyblades aren't the only weapons based on memories.
     
  3. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Alright Erks... I'll buy that. Its just that I saw it posted repeatedly, "The stronger the memories of they Keyblade master has with the trinket, the stronger the Keyblade."

    Everytime I read that I'm like "no way... thats a lie..."

    But you explained it well enough... I have no qualms with that explaination.
     
  4. P Banned

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    Mmm. I had to change the theory to accomodate Fenrir. Ultima I think is either a representation of Sora's heart in the most pure form, or just an uber weapon of doom put into a game, and should be ignored.

    Also, I think I see what you mean ICSP. I would say that the org is bonded to their weapons like Sora to his keyblade. How about we leave the confusing issue at that.

    Now, both of you, should I start a new thread about the Keychainless weapons, or should I thread-jack this thread, as it is everything about keyblades?

    If it is the latter...

    NEW TOPIC:

    I think that the weapons used by Ven, Terra and Aqua are not real keyblades, as they lack all the quailities of one, minus the appearance of a key. (and Terra lacks that slightly too!)

    What differs a keyblade from a normal weapon"

    Can lock/unlock stuff, and do magic beam thingies.

    The weapons lack this. So far no pointing at anywhere and shooting it. As for channeling magic like Reflect, Donald's staff can do that. So far, they are of the same standard as donald's staff.

    Unbreakable.

    Normal keyblades just seem to vanish if something happens to the owner. (Eg, Roxas gets knocked out by Riku. He drops the keys, and they vanish.
    The blades of the knights just broke. Ven's shattered when falling down a cliff.

    So, any other properties of a keyblade? Only one.

    Can be summoned to the user.

    This was not done in the trailer, but it has been seen in Screen shots. Remember though, the Org can do this as well.
     
  5. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    While... this thread is already pretty much jacked. And its not like anything we said was off topic, because it is a catchall "everthing on keyblades" thread.
     
  6. P Banned

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    Great. Now, try to prove me wrong or something...
     
  7. Erkz Kingdom Keeper

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    ... I would call them "Incomplete" Keyblades. They are Keychainless after all. Possibly, Master Xehanort figured out how to make them complete, and did so for himself and his apprentice...

    But you're right. There's something fishy about them...
     
  8. Radiowave ITSA PIIINCH

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    ? Thats not really valid considering that when their weapons go away, the nobody is heavily weakened...
    Saix cannot attack while hes being struck by his claymore...
    Also notice that when Roxas had his weapons forcibily removed, he went unconscious (riku vs roxas) or dissapeared completely (sora vs roxas) a few moments later...and for the sora vs roxas fm fight, he was terribly weakened as well...
     
  9. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Saix still attacks you when you take his weapon. He just makes another claymore. When you start going berzerk on him beating him over the head with a claymore, then he gets weakened, but then again, so would anyone.

    Also, in Roxas vs Riku, Riku doesnt make him drop his weapons, but rather he chokes him out. First Roxas blacks out, then he drops his weapons and they fade away. The same thing would probably happen to Sora's keyblade if Sora got KOed.

    And in Sora vs. Roxas, Roxas doesnt dissapear, but rather he gets thrown to the edge of the ring, because Sora knocks him back as part of the reaction. He doesnt seem weaker, if anything he seems stronger. Also, Roxas can strip Sora of his keyblade. He does so in the cutscene, and also if you miss the reaction. And of course he gets weakened... you took his weapon.


    If we are having a sword fight, and you drop your sword, do you think you can fight just as well without your sword? I dont think so. The idea that the Org members are literally thier weapons, just dont hold water to me.
     
  10. P Banned

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    Hey you! I just jacked the thread, there is a new topic :D

    Yeah, that was my thought as well, Erkz.

    But do we have anything against it?

    Well I like to assume that the Org is in tune with their weapons like Sora with his keyblade. They can do fancy tricks with them, but they can be briefly taken off them.
     
  11. Radiowave ITSA PIIINCH

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    your seemingly right but theres the whole dissappearing weapon thing...you can clearly see that sora and roxas are different because of this comparison:
    Human keyblade wielder:
    Sora: When separated from his keyblade forcibly, he can either get it back or use something else...
    I.E. in kh1 when riku forcibly takes Sora's keyblade away sora cannot get it back, but hes generally not affected, and instead uses the wooden sword

    When demyx's weapon dissappears forcibly, (when sora beats him) he screams and dies...as I said above, when sora looses his weapon he just walks away...with no damage done to him...

    this thread is called "everything on keyblades" for a reason...u have ur discussion with erkz, and ill have mine with ICSP =D
     
  12. Erkz Kingdom Keeper

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    ... *smacks you*

    Did you ever stop to think that the weapons disappeared because the wielder was near-death? It actually kinda makes sense. It also explains why there are Absent Silhouettes, which are the weapons that take the form of their wielders when they engage in battle.

    ...

    *bites you*

    It's a free-for-all. That's what forums are for. =P
     
  13. P Banned

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    Ever consider that it might be that the Org looses their weapons when they die, not the org die when they loose their weapons?

    Sora's keyblade would act in the same way, if he was beaten. (I think)
     
  14. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Thats because you usually see them in battle if your in battle, and you dont have a weapon, your usually dead anyways. Roxas does lose his keyblades, yet still fights, and doesnt die.

    I already pointed out when Saix loses his claymore, he still fights you. So in order for your theory to be "proven" you need to show a consistancy of everytime an Org member loses his weapon, he dies.

    You cant do that because I already showed a couple of situations where they lost thier weapons and keep fighting.
     
  15. Radiowave ITSA PIIINCH

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    Well u kind helped me in my other point...if the absent silhouettes take form of their weilders, then nobodies might actually be apart of their weapons...and I still feel as though im right in some way or another...(no i will not give up...)

    struggling to make sense of the first sentence...but technically roxas does not lose his keyblades, since sora uses them and roxas and sora are one in the same...accept for personality...

    doesnt saix create another claymore to fight you with? I think you wrote that somewhere in this thread...if thats the case, he neither loses his weapons and based on my theory does not die...thats comparable to xaldin: xaldin has 6 lances, and can use each one separately or together...saix might be the same thing, only he doesnt use over 1 claymore at once...

    you should show a consistancy of everytime an org member loses a weapon (for real I mean, not just saix or roxas) they keep fighting. Unfortunately, you might have to do that in another thread because we r kind of getting off topic =/

    not quite true...in the bbs trailer, Ven's keyblade breaks and he does not die immediately. Im pretty sure the one reason why nomura wanted to focus on the keyblade in BBS is because he wanted to show that its much more powerful than any other weapon, or at least more special...
     
  16. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Yes... that mearly means he is in control of his weapon. Not part of it. His weapon is just that, a weapon. You take it from him, he grabs another one. Simple.

    This would imply that they have an even weaker connection than sora does with his keyblade.

    I should show consistancy? Why? I'm not proving anything. Just disproving. You say that the Nobodies are litterally thier weapons. All I need is 1 example to disprove you. But I got 4! And I named two.

    Could it be that maybe they are using thier powers to create thier weapons, and when they run out of power, thier weapon dissapears being that thier power is no longer generating it? Did you ever consider that one?

    *Hears the sound of a theory shattering*

    Also, in case you missed the discussion between me, Pika_power and Erks, Vens keyblade is different than Sora's. And probably would react differently in the same situation.
     
  17. Radiowave ITSA PIIINCH

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    1. Off topiccccc im going to back down and end this particular conversation with a "we'll wait and see" because I believe 358/2 days and BBS will answer our debate and one of us will be right, and the other wrong.
    2. If all you're going to do is disprove for now, then add something later at least. So far all that has been said on this page of this thread is u and I disproving eachother...I never intended to let this thread live, because I thought most of my ideas were flawed and would end up being changed or off topic *cough,cough* or whatever, but now that is 5-star and tons of people are posting, I actually want it to stay a little while longer, hehe

    and although i wanted to add something i forgot it...(lol) so ill just wait for someone to say something...
     
  18. P Banned

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    Okay, time to wack you with my theory.

    http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=30872

    Read all of that.

    Now, remember, ven did not die then, and the keyblade did not break because he was near death, it broke because it got frozen and chucked down a cliff!
     
  19. Radiowave ITSA PIIINCH

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    Ok...im not sure if this was made clear to you, but I was saying, the keyblade might be a special type of weapon unlike the nobody weapons, because when separated or broken, the master doesnt die...
     
  20. P Banned

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    Meh, okay. But it seems as if Saix was seperated from his weapon, and he just made another one.

    Sorry, but I think that the weapons shatter if they die, not vice versa.