Evolution vs Religion

Evolution is provable, mostly because it's happening right now. In fact, insects are evolving to become more and more resistant to toxins we spew. This means that man descending from orangutans is at least PLAUSIBLE, if anything.

God DOES know what we're going to do (according the Bible) but he does NOT choose for us. Think of life like one of those "Choose your adventure" books. He can read to many endings, and knows what WILL happen to us, but doesn't decide it for us. He just shelves the books, and shows us what all the possible endings could have been for us, when purgatory comes. Or, so I'd assume.

The eye-construction has been proven, check any youtube video on it.

Big-Bang is a theory, as many things scientific are. The one thing that bugs me the most is that non-religious people bash on the whole faith thing. Sorry to say, but The Big-Bang IS a THEORY, and regardless of the wording, DOES require faith and belief. All the vague, and assumed evidence aside, you HAVE to believe that it could have happened, before you take in the evidence.
Much like you have to believe in God, before you start accepting religion's rules.

Science and religion require faith, people.
They're not as different as we all think.

 

You are wrong about that.
Our retina is UNCAPABLE of coming from evolution.
I repeat this because I have been told by a DOCTOR that it can't.

 

Sorry, but you can't prove anything like that.

Doctors learn how to help and treat people, not answer the root of human development. I wasn't aware that Doctors held the answers to all life's mysteries.

All you've proven to me is that your Doctor doesn't believe in Evolution.

End of story.

 

This doctor has studied on evolution and she says it's impossible.

 

Um okay, let's just break down the physiology of the eye here. Seeing as you're quite adamant on the retina let's get that down. The retina is composed of various layer and can be peeled like an onion. Each of these layers consist of various cells, namely photoreceptors, bipolar cells, and ganglion cells. When light comes into contact with the iris it enters the pupil and hits the lens of the eye. The lense is able to change shape in order to focus on an image properly. Once sent through the lense, light makes contact with the photoreceptors of the retina which depolarize when light makes contact and send signals (information) through the bipolar cells to the ganglion cells, which are connected to nerve endings that connect to the brain. And after being processed in brain, we get sight as a result. In playyhelmenthese, which is a species of th flat worm, the "eye" structures present on the dorsal "front" of the organism consist of simplistic versions of photoreceptors and ganglion cells. They can't detect colour, but they are able to detect light from dark, and that's enough to enable them to escape predators.

You're using some old, straight-out of the book wrong arguments that favour creationism. It's also highly dubious for a doctor to say something like the retina is unable to come from evolution, especially since he/she would've taken introductory biology in both highschool and university, so if you want to make up stories those go in the RP section.

 

I know where RP goes thank you very much.
I know what I am talking about when I say "Evolution is a bust."

 

An opinion, at best.

That's like me studying on Religion and saying I can prove or disprove that God exists. The reality is that I can't do either of these.

I'm sorry, iPraise, but you really need to get around your head that just because someone says something that obviously can't be proven--be it a Doctor, Lawyer, Sears Outlet Cashier--you can't take it as fact, despite their occupation. This annoyingly reminds me of the kiddie days when little boys and girls used to run around going "No, you're wrong because my Daddy said so!"

Quite honestly, it's a little shameful for anyone to hear a single person's opinion, then run around preaching it like a textbook when you obviously haven't done any research yourself on the issue. And just for the record, I've taken Bio all throughout high school, and just finished first year Biology at York University.

If it were something that simply explained and 'proven'--why are their so many textbooks (Starting from Grade 11 Biology) all the way throughout post-secondary school--that you pay hundreds of dollars for--that discuss evolutionary theory that includes the development of the eye?

No. You don't, actually.

 

*Blows Whistle*

So before things get all flamey!

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and since NEITHER evoloution OR religion can actually be proven as fact is there really a need to get so preacherish (yes I know I just made that word up) about what is and isn't true?

I for one believe (bad choice of word I know) in evolution because of the evidence I have seen and researched (yes researched) as an Archaeologist, Buuuuuuuuut that doesn't mean that the religious view is any less validated, just as many books are written on religious theories as there are for science.

So unless someone actually knows for fact one way or the other NO-ONE can say that Evoloution is bull, similarily NO-ONE can say that it is hard fact! People can have opinions without trying to dictate what others must follow! In my opinion your argument is lost as soon as you have to resort to that! :p

There my piece done with :D

 

Granted I may have been rash with that post, but an argument based on the foundation of "because someone said so" proves nothing. I can find a dentist that I could get to say "Brushing with Coca Cola improves tooth enamel", but that doesn't mean it's true.

 

Oh I fully agree lol I just didn't like the way either side was starting to get! There are enough religion/science wars without one breaking out on here lol! :D

 

"It's gettin' hot in here"~

Evolution is incapable of developing the retina? In application, this statement is completely unsupported. It's comparable a hut on a beach that just got swept under by a wave.

When in a world where the only way to find distinguishable features [shapes, textures etc.] between objects is brightness, it is considered to be handicapped. Most evolutionary scientists suspect that in the earlier stages of evolution simple trichromatic vision was developed. This indicates the presence of two or more cones, which are found in simple organisms. Color vision is one of the necessary attributes to our advances in intelligence today. With two or more cones the brain can see two spectral images of an object and it's surroundings. Bringing new dimension to the world. With color the brain can sense differences between objects that were invalid to it's abilities before. Further increasing observation of environment. Nearly every family of vision possessing organisms have at least one species that has trichromatic vision [or better]. All of these animals, avian, reptilian, mammalian, etc. differ in retinal structure but the anatomy of it is based of the same simple concept. Vision was a slow progression from microscopic organisms. It began with simply determining shapes through undetailed grayscale vision. There are plenty of articles on the web regarding evolution of the eye and it's capabilities. I suggest you look at them before you make naive posts like that.

 

Religion is just as believable as your "science". Who says that what we discover is the truth? Perhaps we see a twisted version of what truly exists. What if gravity is nil to one race? What if, on another world--in another dimension--physics mean nothing? What then?

 

Except for the part where evolution has a mountain of evidence behind it. Heh, you speak of it like it's some new discovery. Something that has absolutely no proof behind it. "your 'science'"

The Bible doesn't present CURRENT evidence. Investigative scientific research does.

Wait, what? How is any of that relevant? Because presently there is no knowledge of such...

 

Truth, like water, is fluidic and is constantly changing. It changes with what we know, and our general evolution as cognitive and living beings. And if you freeze it solid you lose it entirely-- solid truth does nothing for you. Evolution is the product of an inference to the best possible explanation-- as are all scientific inquires. With a staggering amount of evidence just within ourselves alone, it much more probable then a cosmic being deciding to make lesser beings out of his own image just for kicks.

 

I choose Evolution over Religion any day of the week, it just feels more beleavible, not that i'm against it but look at how much technology has done for us.

 

I say religion is more believable because I have seen people healed and I have seen other miraculous things.
I, myself, have been healed.
I have seen someone walk who shouldn't be able to.

 

I've seen nothing new from you. Always the tired sayings of 'I have seen people healed with a priest who touched them.' You say 'I have seen___' and expect that to be solid evidence of the existence of religion?

Not everyone has seen the 'miracles' you have seen and thusly your observations are forfeit. Not everyone can believe so blindly the beliefs that you hold so dear to your heart.

Same as I cannot believe that some all knowing being in the heavens created all life from one thought in his all powerful mind. I cannot believe that he created Man from the dust of the Earth and Woman from Man's rib. To me these are just stories as say Sleeping Beauty is just a story.

What I can hold close to my heart is the theory of evolution because it eases my mind. Something that I can see in other words. I can look at our jaw and see the similarities in it to the jaw of a Neanderthal or those of Homo Ergastor.

To see the bones of these hominids laid out in museums inspires perhaps a spark of familiarity. Perhaps the same as seeing old family photographs your grandparents have.

 

Woo! Haven't posted here in a while.

Anyway, let's get down to business shall we!? >=D

Okay, Blademaster Maikel, that's completely irrelevant. We humans do not care about others universes, we can hardly comprehend them. This discussion is about the truth of THIS universe, this universe and it's rules. Not the distant warpings and changes that may occur in some different universe that we have no idea about.

Now, on the eye discussion. A humans eye is no more complicated then that of a flatworm, as someone has stated before. Okay, maybe a bit more complicated, but it's a perfect example of how we can compare the simple eyes of an un-evolved and un-developed flatworm to the eyes of a human. The eye itself supports evolution. Also, just as a side note: Humans have created working eyes, and even simpler machines that we don't know about use simple eyes, probably comparable to a simpler version of ours. Every used a calculator? Of course you have, everyone has. Well, ever used a solar powered one? Yeah, you see that calculator has a simple panel on it that sees when there's sunlight, then absorbs it and powers the calculator. If the panel couldn't detect the sunlight, it couldn't absorb it and the calculator would go *blink*, and shut off. Ever seen a video camera? The TV is a perfect example of how easy it is to make something similar to an eye. The camera takes in the images, usually at a slow rate of about 30 to 40 frames a second, as in, it's takes about 30 or 40 pictures a second, and just cycling through them continuously to create a flowing picture called video. Our eyes work similarly, usually at far faster speeds, way more then 40 frames a second, way more then 100 frames a second. The camera then transfers the video to the Tv and makes an output, so that the people watching can see the image and go "Yay! Sanjaya got voted off!" or whatever they would say depending on what they're watching. Our eyes do this to, it takes the 4309257347 frames a second or whatever and gives them to the brain, the brain takes the images and our conciousness interprets these as vision, or complicated video. This whole system is so simple, no? If humans could set it up, then why couldn't evolution? You may say something along the lines of "Well humans are smart!", yes we are. We were able to make a TV after only about 500 years of actually technological development. Yeah, doesn't seem so quick anymore does it? Well, evolution has been taking place since water came ot the planet Earth, which means, evolution has had the time of about 3.5 billion or so years to create an eye, wether it be the eye of a flatworm or the eye of a human. Humans only took 500 years. Evolution is slow, it's not a genius, but it's an amazing process tat if you give it enough time can turn out amazing results. We smart humans came from this amazing process. Sure, humans can create a human eye, but the brain itself is an amazing mystery. One that was created after millions of years of adaptation and changes in stimulus from our environment. Evolution has not blessed us, we were lucky enough to get the right conditions to get the complicated brains and eyes we have today. After hundrds of thousands of years of trial and error, evolution has acutally created something that can look at itself and the environment around it, and recreate it 500 times faster. It's not an amazing concept to grasp. I'm feelings generous tonight, so go ahead and believe what you want, but I'm gonna go with the plausible "It took a long ****in time" anser rather then the "So this dude was all 'Let there be eyes!' and the amazingly complicated ones we have today appeared" answer.

 

I found a mysitcal keyblade and have since been using it to fight Heartless. I too also heal, using Curaga.

 

Oh, lawd. I'm sorry about this being totally oblivious to the whole concept of "Intelligent Discussion", but I lol'd.