Gay Marriage

Marriage is awful in general, but if two people want to get married, then they should. I don't even see why it's such a big deal. This whole gay marriage debate has become annoying to see everywhere, but mostly because I don't even understand why it wasn't allowed in the first place. I hear the arguments against it, and I hear the arguments for it, and both are a nuisance, so if there's even some sort of couple wanting to get married, they should. End of discussion.

People care too much about what's going on in other people's lives. That is the thing I understand the least, everyone needs to get over themselves and let other people do what they want. I'm not for any type of marriage, but I do support rights, and if two people want to get married, they should get married.

 

Religiously speaking, it should not be. I do not mind if two same sex people are in a partnership, but that is all it is to me, just a partnership. God said that it was meant to be between a man and a woman.

 

I honestly see nothing wrong with gay marriage. As i've previously stated in another thread, if you can find love in this day and age with someone more power to you. Whether it be with someone of the same or opposite sex. I don't think religion should have any effect on the matter honestly. Look at all of the things in the bible that people have disagreed with countless times over the years. Of course i'm an evolutionist so it doesn't have any effect on my opinion and I can't really say how others feel, that's just what I think. I'll stop there before I anger myself and say some outrageous things. Bottom line, I approve of gay marriage.

 

Alright, I will tell you right now that I am what you might call a "Bible hugger". I am a strong Christian and I believe that every moral, rule, and guideline in the Bible should be followed exactly how God intended. So that would include that being homosexual is a sin.

But I am going to try and be as fair and bias as I can. I will say that it is not fair to exclude homosexuals or discriminate at all against anyone on a general basis. I will also say that people's opinions on this subject comes first from religion and second from the figure that either raised you or the one that you looked up to as a child. Sure one can change their opinion but i bet most people still keep some of the morals and thoughts of their parents and religions.

Also a common thing i hear on this subject is that we should accept all types of people, but how can you say that when there are people today who are excluded or treated differently because of their race, gender, social class, RELIGION, SEXUALITY. I put those words in all caps because every time I hear someone debating this subject the Christian that posts on it gets ganged up on or pushed out for sharing their opinion that didn't agree with yours. So until there is a balance where every one is treated at the same exact level and no one is classified by their physical features or their moral standards, we shouldn't even use this phrase.

But really the debate of this subject is a futile effort because I promise you this will continue until the end of time.

As for the laws on gay marriage, The United States was founded upon Christianity, correct? So there is your explanation on that.

But I will end my long post with this, the next post I post on this topic will be a Bible huggers opinion and I will tell it like it is. So be prepared to block me, hate me, be offended, and everything. But I will only do it out of love and I promise to keep respect for every person involved.

116, We stay Unashamed!

(I saw this and felt i needed to edit my post)
they were in the holcaust and been in all kinds of toture.

Irrelevant! There were tons of people involved gays weren't targeted for genocide, Jews were. Just because someone was gay and Jewish or were involved with Jews and was killed for whatever reason doesn't mean it was a hate crime to their sexuality.

 

Actually, while the Founding Fathers were Christian (as far as I know), there's a thing called separation of church and state. Meaning that religious views should not affect law making. On top of that, Christianity may be the most common religion in the States, but it is not the only one. And we should respect that not all American's want to follow the exact teachings of the Bible (apparently, the Bible says we shouldn't eat shrimp, all seafood is not cool on Friday's, women are basically slaves for their husbands, etc.).

I personally liked Joe Biden's take on things in the VP debate (this was actually about abortion, but the point stands), that as a Catholic he doesn't think it's right, but he doesn't believe that he should deny the right from other people, especially non-Catholics (sorry for the paraphrase).

 

Yea, I understand and I agree that there should be some separation and that everyone's views should be respected, but I will tell you right now that that doesn't exist even on a general term. In my church, we believe that listening the secular music is wrong yet they play secular music in each and every one of my classes so they apparently don't care. And what if my beliefs were that you must kill, steal, vandalize, abuse, ect. There are laws the forbid that or am I wrong. Please correct me if I am. And as fro some of those examples of teachings of the Bible, I hope you were just kidding because most of that is inaccurate. On the women being slaves to their husbands bit, the Bible says that women should be submissive to their husbands meaning: They should try not to argue with him on little things and try to cooperate with them. Not to be a slave and obey them as your master. Many people misunderstand that verse. Because the man is expected to be the leader of the family so we are supposed to kinda respect his decisions. But at the same time if a woman is totally against it then so be it. Just wanted to clarify that, I know its off topic and that shrimp thing...errr...random...far from accurate cannot even find a verse to relate to that. But yea....kinda lost my train of thought. But the above thing is the main point I was trying to stress.

Oh and your profile picture, I would just like to ask you one thing. Do you play Grand Chase?

 

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According to the Bible, so is not being baptized, wearing gold jewelry (women), not spanking children, adultery, offending a christian, conforming to this world, anger, being nosy, arrogance, worrying, complaining, getting drunk, being jealous, not giving offerings in church, doing anything the Bible says not to do (there's A LOT). Here's a fun one; being prejudice or judging others, and many, many more. ​

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I read the rest of your post and understand you're not bashing anyone at all, but I wanted to address that for other's. The rest of this isn't really addressed you, but rather the thread. There are many, many things that the Bible says are sinful and a lot of them contradict each other. I have slight respect for people who take the Bible so seriously they truly, actively try to follow everything the Bible says because at least you're really trying, I guess, but to those who flip out over homosexuality like it's this huge deal and the rest of the 600+ sins mentioned in the bible are somehow okay to ignore then...Um. I don't really understand how you do that. Everyone sins. It's pretty impossible not to. So I don't understand the whole war on homosexuality. A sin is a sin, and there are many of them.​

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On that note, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, and the verse most commonly used to condemn homosexuality is this: "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female. It is an abomination." Leviticus 18:6. Here are some more fun Leviticus laws!​

Spoiler

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10). I wonder if Dr. Laura would like that one to be enforced?
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death. (Leviticus 20:11)
If a man sleeps with his wife and her mother they are all to be burnt to death. (Leviticus 20:14)
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed. (Leviticus 20:15-16). I guess you should kill the animal since they were willing participants. Are they crazy?
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake. (Leviticus 21:9)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community. (Leviticus 24:14-16)
Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)

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This is not coming from someone who hates Christians, or is a super cynical atheist type. I was raised a Christian and my father is a Minister/very religious. I just feel there's something very wrong with applying a 3,000 year old verse to something modern, and then ignoring most if not all of the other things the same law/book(s) states. ​

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THAT BEING SAID. I would like to know, from a super-Christian's perspective, what leads you all to believe homosexuality is wrong enough to condemn for? What part of the Bible supports this without it being hypocritical? What did Jesus say that leads you to believe homosexuality is wrong? I respect those with concrete reasons behind their beliefs, I truly do, but this is ridic. I'm all for people having different opinions on things, but Religion isn't an opinion. How do you say you're a Christian and then pick and choose from different parts of your religion's teachings? If we're going to not allow homosexuals to marry, then we shouldn't allow divorce, or for divorced people to re-marry and we shouldn't fight for equality and women's rights and we should kill a lot more people, etc. ​

 

People still have a problem with same sex marriage honestly in 2012?

Is it that difficult to accept someone who is happy with the choice they made in this already distorted, corrupt, and sinful world.

These bible huggers should know that god accepts all... No actual wasn't it god who made people if you believe in that? And a guy who likes a guy and a girl who likes a girl are people created by god. And god loves all of his children, but yet its a sin for the children he loves to try to make the best choices in a disorganized world. I mean damn all they want is some humane rights... Let me stop saying they
All that is wanted is some fair treatment and not have to be scared about who they love. Now if we look at how cruel and evil this world is if you're happy and someone else isn't then envy, anger, hate, and all these negative emotions arise you just gotta get it out to feel good. So why not pick on someone who's already trying to get out to the rut they're in right? I mean the media trashes them, tabloids, parents, kids, even at jobs they do this. So I mean follow the crowd right be hip you stay on the safe side where nothing will change because of the fear of something you don't understand.

Yea and please I hope the bible huggers say they understand what it means to be gay, and all the facts... No you see unless you are gay and have been living your life like that you don't understand sh**. Just talking out your ass from the facts you receive from a published world renown author with facts... Its bull because for the simple fact that they only go based of their sight, views, beliefs, what they were taught blah, blah, blah. There's no way in hell you can ever say what it means to be gay unless your gay. How can stereotypes categorize me as what a black, or African American(There's a difference for you smart asses claim there isn't.) when I may not at all be any of those things. I may show traits, but that's not me because I choose how to act, and respond to things in a certain situations and stuff.

So then why is it no matter what a someone who's gay does they are not even able to escape that. Its just gay that's it can't be helped... For a supposed fully developed species and ones who are on top of the food chain we argue, and fight over the dumbest sh**. If you wanna keep living and try to make the best of this planet you live on just embrace all those around you. Like what if you found out a doctor was gay you wouldn't go to them? The job that's being done is the same job as a straight doctor, but cause this doctor happened to be gay its a problem? I've seen that first hand and its just so sad how you can talk out of your ass with all these facts, and verses, quote the bible line for line, but you have a hard time understanding people are people. I'm down for living a New Year chilling with people who respect what they have been blessed with... The gift of life, thought, sight, dreams real people. So go ahead keep quoting the bible and what it says, and what it means cause again this is your thoughts on it so spew out who you feel. It won't get anywhere because there's real people out there trying to make a change for what its supposed to be.

 

I really like you, I just want to start off by saying that. I like you because, you kept the respect, you didn't see it as a challenge to my faith, and you kept it real for the most part. But some things you said are the reason that I cry sometimes because the people I like and love are sometimes mislead or deceived about Christianity. You made some really good points that I stress to my fellow all the time. Like how you said people will pick and choose which rules they want to follow. That is so true and I am constantly bringing that up to people. If you are going to live the lifestyle then you might as well live it to the fullest right? You also said that sin is sin. I want to just set something straight for everyone. I am not saying that homosexuality is like the highest form of sin or anything like that. There is no rank of sin its all bad on the same level of bad. A lot of Christians forget that because we as humans tend to include our personal beliefs into everything when it is not necessarily called for. For example if someone were to kill 30 people and then someone were to tell a little white lie and not repent for it, they would suffer equal fates. You see how we see it as different degrees of sin when it is really not. And I'm not going to address every point in your statement because it is past my bed time but God was talking to the children of Israel just telling them some things. Like that they shall be cut off and stuff, what He was saying is like dudes don't do that kind of stuff it's weird, if you will allow me to show it that way. I think this will be my last note, don't think of all Christian people as evil hypocrites because it's not necessarily the truth. We are no more perfect than anyone else contrary to what some of us believe. I am a Christian person and I am saved and I cursed twice today, I do not claim to be perfect by any means. But what will get me right with God is the fact that I repented and made an effort not to do it again. I really do hope you will try and read the Bible and get a better understanding because someone has mislead you and it irritates me because again I really like you, and you are intelligent and not ignorant like some of the people who try to pick fights with me over this stuff. You should pm me so we can keep talking if you want. I hope i didn't offend anyone, if i did please forgive me. Oh and Ill leave you with this, I cursed listened to every kind of music and did somethings that could be borderline blasphemy, I was addicted to pornography, and almost all the crap you can think of but you call me a "super christian today" God will accept anyone at anytime. I love everyone. 116 Unashamed

 

Context is just very important in the overall of the bible. The bible has a lot of stuff written on it. It is very easy to pick and choose without understanding it. Which is ignorance and a true Christian should know the whys in the bible and in Christianity. Faith is not a synonym of ignorance.

The laws in Leviticus were laws written by Moses for Israel--God's chosen people. It is important to note that the bible hardly ever meddles into social norms. So, to them, most of these measures made sense due to the social context.

It is also important to note that the 10 commandments were written by God himself. But the laws for the people were something different (also noted by the commandments being placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, but not the Laws of Moses)

Funnily enough, the climate in the New Testament is very different. Because Jesus himself was against the use of the Laws of Moses because they were not supposed to be used as they were being used (as in, applying old human sanitary/cleansing laws to modern times)

On homosexuality. I'm not sure if the bible actually condemns love between men, but rather the act of lying with another man. Which I think could translate to sodomy in some way. Sodomy isn't really natural, so it would make some form of sense for the bible to be against it. but I'm really not sure.

 

You can PM me if you want, but keep this in mind;

I wasn't calling you a super Christian. I also agree that not everyone who is Christian or religious is a hypocrite. Thank you for your response and for understanding that I was not attacking you or anyone.

I'm genuinely not entirely sure if this is completely addressed to me, but I would like to say that I agree with your post and don't have anything against any of your points. I was just stating the the most popular Biblical argument against homosexuality is Leviticus, so it's pretty ironic to me how -- because of the reasons you mention -- most of the other things are ignored, yet that particular verse is used as proof that homosexuality is wrong despite what Leviticus actually is.

 

You are right

 

Well, I' m not sure what definition for Religion you had in mind, but religious views definitely qualify as opinions.

I posted a link about morality in animals in another thread. It mentions something very interesting : when you look at a landscape you don' t hold a ten minutes internal debate to decide whether it' s pretty or not, your verdict is pretty much instantaneous. A hospitable valley filled with rivers and trees will probably feel prettier than a desolate moon landscape to most people, because our brains are trained to equate hospitable with good. Morality works the same way. When you feel discomfort at, say, the thought of homosexuality, that discomfort is instantaneous and unreasoned, it' s pretty much a chemical reaction.

One can try and use reason and evidence to contrast his first instinctive reaction and reach a better conclusion on the matter, but unfortunately we often tend to lazily pick the arguments that fit our initial emotional response rather than those that make the more sense (we usually do it unconsciously, see cognitive dissonance).

That' s why Christians are able to cherry-pick which Bible laws are good and which aren' t : the Bible was never the source of their morality, nature and nurture were. Somebody mentioned parental and religious upbringing earlier in this thread, well that would be two of the many faces nurture can take.

That being said, when I see someone post in this thread only to say "I' m against homosexual marriage because the Bible says so" it does slightly bug me. Not because it' s a religious opinion, freedom of thought and speech yady yady yada, nor because they cherry-picked the Bible, it bugs me because it' s a non-answer. The reason kids should not accept candies from strangers is that it could get them raped or worse, not that their mother told them so. I don' t really care whether the Bible condemns homosexuality or not, I' m much more interested in why one happens to agree with the Bible (or rather with his view of what the Bible says). This is the debate corner, not the here' s my two cents corner.

Alternatively if they could explain which reasoning the Bible (or whichever religious source) provides to back up its conclusion then that would be interesting too, although to my knowledge the Bible barely bothers with the why (or needs you to believe in a few supernatural stuff on faith to validate the why, which is fallacious so it doesn' t exactly shine in a debate).

 

I'd like to throw in my opinions ('opinion' dirty word on the internet, I know.)

I'm speaking as someone who was born and raised in the United States as a Christian, and sill remains one. While me or my family are not so intense with our religion, it's still something we believe in. (If anyone is interested in knowing, my specific religion is United Methodist)

I believe that same sex marriage should be allowed. It should be treated no different than any other marriage. If two consenting adults of the same sex wish to share their lives together and create a family, what right does the government have to tell them they can't? It's about as ridiculous as when people were opposed to interracial marriages. I mean, were talking about consenting adults. There really shouldn't be any argument about it.

What good is our society if we can't evolve and grow to accomodate our people's values. What happened the the freedom that was fought for? The freedom and expected way of life that people are still giving their lives to protect?

In response the the popular argument of saying that it "goes against the bible" I have some arguments to share here. Also, be reminded that hese passages were written in a different time. Would you still enforce laws that are that old on those who do not agree with what you think is right.

I'm not saying that people who live only by the words of the bible are wrong, but it is wrong to force those views onto others.

I recall once in church, there was a service about the judgement of our souls after death (Please note that this would only be true if you believe in God and the existence of life after death). They said that, in some way, everyone is guilty of sin. But, this is normal. It's they way things are. But, we can be forgiven by God if we admit to our sins and ask for his forgiveness. Those who believe they are free of sin, or are to good to need to ask forgiveness will not be forgiven. It makes me think of the religious fanatics who say that "gays will go to hell". From what I learned in church, that will never be true. The people who try to "play god" and condem people in that way are the ones more likely to think they are guilty of no sin, and will then not get the forgiveness of the God they claim to represent.

Still, most of the arguments against same-sex marriage are based in religion. That alone should have no impact on laws. There needs to be a clear separation of the church and the government. If religion influences law, that's hardly a progressive approach to running a country, especially one that boasts freedom.

Really, the arguments against same-sex marriage, in my opinion, just sound like fear of change. There's nothing wrong with fearing change, but saying that letting two mean or two women marry each other is going to "ruin the sanctity of marriage" is bull. What ruins the sanctity of marriage are extremely short celebrity marriages, getting married only because you are pregnant, getting married because you're drunk, and getting married for immigration reasons. Yet, those all seem to be widely accepted by the people who speak so adamantly against same-sex marriage.

To sum up, two consenting adults of any sex and/or gender should be allowed to be married. The church should have no influence over any laws on the subject. You are allowed to have your opinions on the subject, but you shouldn't assume everyone shares your views, nor should you try to make them sare your beliefs. Two people of the same sex getting married does not harm you in any way, leave it be. If it offends you, just ignore it. Because, you are not getting married, it effects you in no way.

 

What were animals placed on earth to do? Reproduce. What are humans? Animals. Can a man and a man reproduce? no. Can a female and female reproduce? no. It's like a puzzle in a sense.

 

Animals weren't "placed" on Earth to marry.

 

That is so silly. There are SO many heterosexual married couples that are not having sex. They're not reproducing. Does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to marry either? If anything, the government should be promoting homosexual sex as if there is no tomorrow since our planet is becoming so overpopulated. Either way, we've come pretty far from marriage equaling baring children. You don't have to have sex when you're married. Sometimes two people of the same sex want to get married because they truly love each other, and who the hell am I to say they can't? Who is anyone to deny them that right? It is their life. I may not choose and you may not choose it, but if someone else does, good for them.