Birth by Sleep How Sora owns the keyblade?- Spoilers -

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX' started by Kaidron Blaze, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. Boy Wonder Dark Phoenix in Training

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    About Kingdom Key's rejection of Riku: My guess would be that Riku was chosen to be a Keybearer by Terra so he was supposed to be one of light. I don't know why the Kingdom Key rejected him (except that Sora simply stole it but then it had to reject him again in Hollow Bastion) and Kingdom Key D doesn't reject Mickey. I guess it's because Mickey's heart is strong enough to keep his dark Keyblade from disappearing, his light is stronger than its darkness (so Riku's darkness may have been weaker than KK's light and it rejected him), or dark Keyblades act in a different manner than light ones. For example (on that last point), darkness is usually related to the bad guys or evil or, more importantly in Kingdom Hearts, corruption. The darkness won't care if someone has strong light in their heart, it'll try to overpower that light and corrupt it. Light could be the same way, except with purifying it instead. Or, it could simply reject the darkness if its "corruptive"/strong/evil enough.
    Riku had the ability to become a Keybearer (granted by Terra) but was rejected by the Kingdom Key (light) because of his darkness. His inner darkness was turned into a weapon, birthing Soul Eater. When he embraced the light, but didn't reject the darkness, he was able to wield a Keyblade and Soul Eater evolved to accommodate for that. It's implied or speculated that Way to the Dawn is to the In-Between Realm as Kingdom Key is to the Light Realm since Riku uses both darkness and light.
    I'm not entirely sure. It was said (or at least implied, not sure) that Roxas can wield the Keyblade because he's Sora's Nobody. But that's just the ability to wield. If what you said is true, he might use Ven's Keyblade if he has Ven's heart, but since he doesn't have Ven's memories (which I'm starting to find strange), it doesn't take the shape of Ven's Keyblade. Instead, it takes the form of Sora's since he has Sora's memories (some) and is close to his heart (while having Ven's heart > being close to Sora's, Ven's heart seems...locked in some way. Memories lie in the heart, so why does he not have Ven's memories?) and eventually evolves into Oblivion and Oathkeeper from Sora's memories of Riku and Kairi, respectively.
    Other than that, I like your theory. It makes sense (to me, at least) if you mix it with the game. :3[/QUOTE]
     
  2. Xeitr The False Image Gummi Ship Junkie

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    pretty much, the soul eater just acted as a medium to summon way to the dawn...its kind of like when a bad guy in a video game takes over someone they take on some of their attributes only in this case the bad guy is instead a neutral keyblade taking over an evil sword...i'm sure he could still summon soul eater if he wanted...he just has no reason to cause its not as powerful and doesn't suit him anymore.

    having vens heart is what allows roxas to wield the keyblade the keyblade he wields looks like the kingdom key cause it has the kingdom keys keychain (which by my theory holds a piece of soras soul)...without a heart you can't wield one...thats why you don't see Xemnas ever wielding xehanorts or terras (if he even remembers being able to do so) no heart no keyblade...this was a dead give away to me that Roxas wasn't a regular nobody if even a nobody at all...Roxas just mistook constant depression and lack of memories as lack of feeling which made him not question the validity of the claims he was a nobody

    and yeah i believe that, the whole kairi and riku things right...cept i think its more of the connection he has to soras soul that gave him the memories to wield oblivion and oathkeeper
    also Xion is also represented by Oblivion...as she just went poof into oblivion from his perspective.
     
  3. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    does this mean by acctuall fact Roxas never was a Nobody because he always had a heart?
     
  4. Sufris Twilight Town Denizen

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    We all have different views, and it's highly debatable. But I would honestly like thinking he's just really close to Ven (I mean, LOOK AT HIM!).

    Or perhaps it only applies with when you first get your Keyblade? I mean, KKD WAS Mickey's second Keyblade...but I'm not saying you're dead wrong.

    Thanks, by the way. That makes everything easier. XD

    About Ven's heart...he said he "had to go back to sleep", so maybe by sleeping, he's really locking his heart deep within the depths of Sora's. That, and no matter what (please note this is the way I look at it) you do, Ven is still Ven and Sora is still Sora. Roxas was Sora's Nobody, so I suppose just because he has Ven's heart doesn't mean the memories would enter Roxas.
     
  5. Xeitr The False Image Gummi Ship Junkie

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    he has memories of sora and ven inside him, its just like sora can't access vens memories roxas can't either...Roxas isn't ven he took on vens likeness because the body accomadated the memories of ven inside roxas/vens heart
     
  6. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    But in saying that wouldn't he of attaned some of Sora's features too since Nobodies gain their apperance from their past hearts memories so Roxas should look more like Sora cos he has more accsessable memories of Sora rather than Ven
     
  7. Mixt The dude that does the thing

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    Actually Roxas has very few memories of Sora. DiZ believes that it is because of the very short time that Sora was a heartless. Instead of normal memories Roxas ends up with dreams of Sora and nostalgic feelings in certain worlds, and that could very well still be from Ven since his heart was there too. That would also help to explain why Roxas's memories come in third person as well. The rest of the organization seems to remember themselves as themselves, but Roxas gets memories of "the boy in red"
     
  8. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    That does make sence.... It would also help exsplain why Xion was able to take his memories soo esaly with out Roxas feeling anything missing cos to him they were only dreams of the boy in red
     
  9. Limex Destiny Islands Resident

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    im gona agree with this becouse well its what i think aswel and coudlent said it better myself xP.

    now i just want to point out while where at this whole Keyblade topic.

    Ya can wield one keyblade you can wield them all, and not just only the one that is yours.
    this is demostrated in kh 1 when sora uses the keyblade to unlock people hearts, thats not his keyblade, but yet he can pick it up and use it acordingly, and that is becouse he posses the ability to wield a keyblade.

    an other is when he is fighting Roxas, " this can be widley debated" but when you fight him in final mix, you can pull of a move that causes Sora to litterly Snatch Roxas Oathkepper and Oblivion (who are incargnations of soras memory of Kari and Riku,"random fact"

    eather way this is where the debate part comes in, it is generly known by now that Sora and roxas posses the abilty to duel wield, due to hosting vens heart, the way this works is.

    Sora + ven = two keyblades.
    Roxas+ ven = two keyblades ( where roxas mainly uses soras, due to being a part of him, half of what he is, and then the other keyblade is simply ventus.

    now seeing as the battle is held inside soras heart, " awakening" or what not, theoretacly the number of keyblades could be endless.
    my point with all this was just to state that Keyblade wielders can use other keyblades that where not meant for them,

    A THIRD! example witch i cant belive i forgot, is the final battle in kh2 where Sora lay the final combo on Xemans, while doing that combo he uses Rikus keyblade.

    forth example : Riku vs Roxas, Riku momentarly uses the keyblade agesnt roxas, now if roxas could simply just warp it back in to his hands why wouldent he the moment Riku and him clashed blades? (heat of battle maybe i dunno im just listing examples here)
    an other element to add to the nature of the keyblades.
     
  10. Xeitr The False Image Gummi Ship Junkie

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    roxas has his keyblade and xions keyblade...not vens....and sora has his keyblade and roxas's keyblade
     
  11. Limex Destiny Islands Resident

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    thats incorrect Xion dont have her own keyblade , she wields soras keyblade just like roxas.

    roxas dont have an own keyblade, he is part of sora, and thus wielding soras keyblade, while hosting vens heart ( or he is useing vens keyblade) But Roxas do not have his very own keyblade, and judgeing by the desing im gona go with that he is useing soras.

    and Sora has his own keyblade and vens, NOT roxas , becouse roxas dont have one.
     
  12. Mixt The dude that does the thing

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    Well this thread is getting to be a bit much now. We're mostly talking in circles and arguing semantics. But I would like to leave with one last tidbit, that Limex has so nicely told me I'm wrong in advance despite there being evidence against his own claim in the fact that Roxas can dual wield using Xion's keyblade. (If they were the same keyblade, it would of made his a more complete keyblade when he became it's wielder rather than remaining distinct)


    But to my point. If you think about it Sora could potentially use 3-4 keyblades at this point.

    His own
    Ven's
    Xion's
    Roxas's (maybe, see below)

    The reason I'm throwing Roxas's as a maybe because it is only possible for one theory of his keyblade, so depending on how you see his keyblade this might not be possible at all. And even in the one where it might work it is uncertain.

    If it's Ven's/Sora's keyblade, obviously one person shouldn't be able to wield the same keyblade twice. So it's out as a possibility right there.

    But if it is Roxas's, it is only because he had Ven's heart (since a strong heart is one of the few known requirements for a keyblade). So it is uncertain that even if it is distinct from Ven's and Sora's that the properties that would allow him to use it can still be applied (i.e. Can Ven's heart be used for both his own keyblade and for Roxas's at the same time?)
     
  13. Sufris Twilight Town Denizen

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    If I may, I'd like to state something here.

    Xion's Keyblade wasn't exactly a Keyblade. Riku labeled it as "a sham", so from that, we can infer it is some manifestation of the memories of Sora, since her very existence relies on Sora's memories.

    Then there's the case of Ven-Roxas...whatever.

    I'll agree with mixt, except I honestly don't believe Roxas having his own Keyblade. :| It just doesn't make sense for him to have his own Keyblade, if Sora technically already has two Keyblades cause of Ven. Period.

    Other than that, I have nothing else to say. I'll pitch in when I feel like it. .__. I can't type so well right now, anyway.
     
  14. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    Like mixt said we're just going in circles I think it would probably be better if this thread were locked before we get done for spamming....
     
  15. Chevalier Crystal Princess

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    No. Just because some people in the thread keep confusing others with irrelevant banter, doesn't mean we should close a thread.

    And, I'm going to tell everyone in this thread to think before you type. Not only in the posting of theory, but also in their manners. Nobody likes a smart ass, so stop trying to sound "oh so intelligent" and worry about replying concisely and politely.

    You have been warned. Play nice.
     
  16. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    Ummmmm thanks... I guess lol. Well since my request has been denided does anyone else have any theroies?
     
  17. Sufris Twilight Town Denizen

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    Could I spark up another question about Keyblades? Cause I was wondering what people think of some Keyblades not having keychains. I don't recall anyone saying anything about that.

    If it's too off-topic, feel free to slap it across my face. XD
     
  18. Kaidron Blaze Kingdom Keeper

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    I don't think so but I think that subject has been covered before... but go on what of it and be sure to give pictured exsamples
     
  19. Sufris Twilight Town Denizen

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    It has? Well, no matter. I guess if I bring up the question again, other people might pitch in. :3

    Well, I was more of wondering about the keychain itself, and the Keyblades with no keychains. For example; the Keyblade of Heart. It had no keychain, what does that make it? If it is because of the keychain being a part/manifestation/representation of one's soul, why would Kingdom Key have its own keychain from the start? I'm just trying to keep the thread alive, since it can't be locked. As of now.

    Oh, and what about Keyblades that lost keychains? Like Terra's Keyblade, or pretty much every other Keyblade in Keyblade Graveyard, by the looks of it.
     
  20. Fayt-Harkwind Where yo curly mustache at?

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    My personal theory is that Sora was already capable of becoming a keyblade master since he had the right sense of justice and all that garbage but the events concerning Riku and Sora meeting the BBS trio (and Sora having the heart of one of them within his own) acted as a catalyst (the same for Riku, except Terra gave him a keyblade), hence why he can dual wield in Valour Form, because he hasn't figured out he can do it by himself like Roxas did, but Roxas did it by using Xion's "copy", so in theory Sora can wield two keyblades but if he puts himself in the mindset of Roxas he can make a mimicry of one and thus wield three (but this shouldn't be possible anyway since it would end with Sora going completely bonkers from tapping into a mixture of memories of his own, his Nobody's and a clone of his Nobody), if the keyblade works in according to the user and the user has been separated quite a lot then he should be like three people in personality not counting Ven. In other words, Sora is the Gold Zeo Ranger before Jason returned *shot*
    (yes, this post was a huge set up for a joke)

    EDIT: It may be a joke, but still consider the idea of multiple personalities controlling the keyblade to make duplicates. ASURA SORA.