I'm beginning to lose faith in humanity.

Or, at least, humanity in my immediate surroundings.

I live in the suburbs of Long Island, which is that little piece of land sticking off of New York, about an hour or two outside of the city. Through middle school I was fairly social, I didn't have a huge number of friends but I did have a few I was close to and saw them outside of school often. I began to fall out with them as I entered high school, which was due to both us changing as people and me not agreeing with some of their actions, attitudes, and personalities. By the end of ninth grade I pretty much had only one close friend, who I didn't see outside of school too often (because I'm sort of a homebody), but that I got along with very well.

Since then things have pretty much remained the same regarding the number of friends I have. I talk casually in class with others, but the only person I actively talk to and make an effort regarding is said girl, who for the purposes of this thread we shall name Catherine. She was just the only person in the school who didn't seem completely ridiculous. At the beginning of the summer of 2010 she got a job at a local business, and began hanging out with her coworkers. As I said I don't really leave my house much so that didn't really bother me, until she got me a job at the same place.

I began to hear things, both from coworkers and from the conversations between her and coworkers about what this 'hanging out' entailed. I got the impression that they do very little besides drink and party. And not just drink socially, but get slobbering drunk and pass out on the floor, that sort of thing.

Now I try to adhere by the "to each one's own" policy, but personally I am straight-edge, if you want to use the silly term for it. I don't see the point or appeal of drugs or alcohol, the thought of chemically affecting the way your body functions and losing control of some of your faculties, however temporarily, freaks me out. While I don't mind if people partake in said activities socially, if it becomes something that defines them, or they're doing it excessively two or three times a week, I begin to have a problem.

Which is where the conflict is. I do like Catherine, we're similar people, have similar interests, and generally get along well. We've never had major arguments or fights, maybe a tiff here or there but never anything groundbreaking. But her behavior of late not only concerns me for her well-being, but it also pretty much disgusts me, and lowers my opinion of her as a friend. And it hurts to see that someone I thought very highly of be pretty much just the same as everyone else in this town.

As a disclaimer, I do not know exactly to what extent this behavior is to; my optimistic side says maybe she's just involved with the wrong sort but doesn't always partake herself, but another part of me fears that it is worse than I'm currently imagining.

This is more of a vent thread I guess, but I'm wondering, is it completely out of line for me to feel this way? We still get along fine personality-wise, but I'm not sure I can overlook all of this stuff. Am I just being stuck-up? Has anyone been in a similar situation?

 

Everyone has concerns about their friends sometimes, and that's why they discuss things together. That's the only thing I can say.

 

Few words, but they're well said.

If it really bothers you that much, I personally think you should ask her about it.

 

First of all, it's definitely not out of line to be concerned about your friend.
As Spike said, you could ask her about it, and then you'd have your answer.

I'm sort of the same way myself, I'm above the legal drinking age in Norway but I don't drink excessively, I drink rarely and for the taste. Because of that, and my values being that you don't need alcohol to have fun, I lose a bit of respect when people I know get wasted and pass out etc. Though it's her own decision (unless she's being peer-pressured), there's not much you can do about it.

Why can't you overlook her drinking/partying though? Does it really define who she is? I fail to see how it can define who she is, seeing as you've known her for what seems to be quite some time and you're close to her. My thought on that is that as long as it doesn't affect how she is in her day-to-day life, it shouldn't make you unable to be her friend, because to be frank, and I'm not trying to be rude, it would be stupid to let her partying ruin your friendship, if the friendship is important to you. I know values are important, but as long as she doesn't ditch you to go drink all the time, and as long as she doesn't change how and who she is with you, I don't see how it'd make her less of a friend.

In my case, even though I lose some respect for my friends who drink excessively, they're still my friends. When they're sober, they are awesome, which happens to be when they hang out with me and which is also the majority of the week.

I know people who can't stand drinking though, and I get it. Seeing people drunk can be a scary experience, I've nearly been assaulted a couple of times by drunken assholes.

If I'm coming off rude, I'm sorry, that's not my intention, because as I said, I get it. If it is such an extreme problem to you, you'll have to see what is most important; her drinking being a problem or your friendship.

It might be relieving just to vent it, but anyway, good luck in figuring it out :)

 

Once again the taboo on drinking in the forum rears it ugly head. Something you must understand Misty is that people who get destroyed with drink once and awhile do it for a reason. Its to drown themselves in such a way that the problem will die for awhile. No one will understand this except that person. Everyone has their stuff and its clear she has stuff to deal with that she prefers people remain ignorant to.

Second i would like to acknowledge that if she is you're friend you would make an active effort to go out with her someday to get a bit of perspective besides making a judgement of a life-style you neither understand or even try to understand. Friendship isn't simple, you have to make an effort to hang out with people outside of school even if you don't feel up to it. Otherwise the friendship goes to nothing but empty conversations.

Third, people who haven't tried alcohol or drank it for long enough clearly don't understand what alcohol can do to you and your state of mind. Give alcohol a try and don't be so enclosed. My friends brought me out for a friends 18th and though i was reluctant i really liked going out drinking. The atmosphere is great. I didn't even drink that much but even when your friends are drinking the mood becomes lighter. Sure people overdo alcohol every so often but friends are there to get them through it.

The title is not fitting because the only reason that your horizons are closing is because you're reclusive. And fair enough Alcohol does do changes to your brain but so does mindless hours on the computer. Your saying you're losing faith in humanity when people have gone their own way and you won't try seeing the world the way they do.

The last thing i want to acknowledge is your attitude towards people. Making blanket statements like "pretty much just the same as everyone else in this town" won't get you any friends and it is such an ignorant statement to make. What gives you any right to talk down to/about others? What defines you as any different from anyone else in your town really? the only thing that defines you is that you believe that you have a much more refined opinion on matters outside of the superficial, which is not the case because contrary to popular belief on these forums, just because people act a certain way doesn't mean that they are any less of a person than you.

I might seem harsh but i'm telling you this because if you understand, i believe you will be a better person for it, but then again i could be wrong but i guess only you reading it will give us that answer.

 

I think you are being too harsh on Catherine and the entire culture she has become a part of. You do not know the extent to which she has fallen, nor have you actually tried it out to discern whether she has 'fallen' at all. It could be worthwhile investigating the culture for yourself.

Everything tends to be emphasised when discussing an event afterwards. It's known as bragging. Also, you are biased against the event itself and have preconceived notions of what a party is, meaning it is likely that you are vilifying it and choosing to take it as an extremely negative pastime. It''s fully possible that it is, and that your judgement is correct. The point is, you don't have the necessary evidence to back this up. Remember too, you are 'straight-edge' as some people say. If you were to acknowledge that partying is not as bad as you think it is, then you would have to reconsider your point of view and your own lifestyle. Doing such a thing can be quite scary, so it's far easier to stick to your own beliefs instead of challenging them.

Which brings me to my next point. You have not actually been to a party. You say "the thought of chemically affecting the way your body functions and losing control of some of your faculties, however temporarily, freaks me out." From this I gather that you have not actually tried such substances, so forgive me if I am incorrect, and disregard what I am saying. On the off-chance that I am right, then it is important for you to investigate such a culture further. The fact is that if other people are doing it, there must be an appeal to it. You do not see this appeal from the outside, so you condemn it as unsavoury behaviour, and allow it to taint your opinion of other people. If you wish to truly judge people fairly, it is necessary for you to gain a knowledge of the appeal and understand their mindset. Only once you have heard all sides of the story can you make a fair judgement of your friend, of her group and of humanity in general.

That's not to say that you should go along, get alcohol poisoning, do cocaine off a hooker and get pregnant from the first guy you see. You should still retain some of your morals, for personal safety. It is, however, a good idea to go along to a party, observe others, experiment a bit and gain knowledge of Catherine's world without taint from your own bias. Presumably, at some point you had respect for her opinion, so as her friend, you owe it to her to attempt to judge her only after seeing all perspectives.

Ask her to take you somewhere and to show you the ropes. If she's half the friend you believe her to be, she'll be accepting and willingly guide you around her life. Doing it this way will be far more productive than simply confronting her about her lifestyle choice, as it will give you ground to stand on if you feel the same way afterwards. Currently, if you voice your opinions to her, then it will seem as though you are attempting to close-mindedly take the moral high ground and lecture your friend for her actions. Remember, you are her friend, not her mother. A friend listens to and is willing to experience her friend's point of view. A mother makes judgemental demands, unreasonable orders and sets unfair ultimatums. Be a good friend, not a mother.

Who knows? You may discover that you actually enjoy yourself. Even if you don't, it's important to get out of the house once and a while to expand one's horizons and gain more knowledge of the world and humanity, if only to better condemn it once you are again safely behind your computer screen.

EDIT: lol, Daxa beat me to it. His argument is valid.

 

For some reason I thought you were older than me by at least 5 months...

And THANK THE LORD someone has a problem like mine. I say confront her about it, but in a nice way. People your age shouldn't be drinking and stuff, its just not right. It also kinda depends on the people she's hanging out with. Are they older? Are they pressuring her to do it? You obviously work with her so you should know. If they are pressuring her to do it, then that's just not on. If she's doing it out of her own free will, then I'm sorry I don't have a very high opinion of your friend...

If you're worried, I say just confront her, but in a nice way. Have a sit down and talk, hang out together, and bring it up in natural conversation (if that makes sense). If Catherine is who you say she is, then she'll understand your concern and tell you the WHOLE story. At the moment its just your assumption of what's going on and what you've heard from co workers. You should get her side. What exactly she's doing, WHY she's doing it, and THEN you can talk about it.

If she is doing what she is doing out of her own free will, then (dare I say it) I recommend what P wrote. Try out this experience. If it makes you uncomfortable, then tell her. It won't necessarily mean she'll stop, but at least she'll get some kind of message. Hope that helps. Like I said, I'm actually in this situation right now, so I don't really know what to say.

 

Being concerned for her well-being is one thing, having it lower your opinion of her is another. That's a bit harsh. You have to give the girl a break, she lives in Long Island and it seems like the fault lies with her culture. Besides for all you know it could just be a phase; it's perfectly normal to explore drinking when you're able to.

The only thing I can equate this to is that one of my friends is a very liberal Democrat. I don't agree with him, but that doesn't make me think less of him. He was raised that way and his opinions don't affect me in any significant way. Does Catherine's behavior affect you in any significant way, really? Because if I'm reading correctly, before she got you that job (A really cool thing for a friend to do by the way), you didn't even know

I think you may be playing holier-than-thou a little here. I respect your decision not to drink and I'm sure Catherine does too, but her choices do not make her like "Everyone else in this town". If she really was like that, would you have wanted her as a friend in the first place? It may not be a good idea to throw away what could be a great relationship over something that (it seems to me) hasn't even affected you and for all you know could be temporary

 

If she hasn't got some crippling problem with drinking or some problem she is deliberately trying to avoid by drinking, then she is normal or at least not a high risk of becoming depndant on alcohol.

I'll be brief about talking about me specifically. In the last year since I turned 18 and have become legally allowed to drink, I just haven't. 99% of the time any time i've had an alcoholic drink is because someone else has bought it for me (people who drink love to get the sober one drunk, at least my friends do). However, just last month since I turned 19 and summer has come around with people inviting me to the pub and we had prom, I just went with the flow of things. I've had more to drink then all other drinks combined. And I have to say it's still not appealing to me, but I understand more why people (more specifically my friends) drink. Because they want to try it out for a while and see if it suits them.

Most of them have become absolutely wasted most of the time from drinking, but recently some have gone 'No, I don't want to wake up in the next bed to my friend's dad, with all my clothes gone, in a place i've never seen before ever again' (true story about one of my freinds) or 'I want to get healthier' 'I can't afford it any longer'.

I think for alot of people it's more a of a phase to go through, a way to become an adult for some people. It's got its goods and bads like anything so you'll jsut have to accept both. And be a friend to your friend when you can by accepting them for who they are as cliche as it sounds.

 

I'm pretty sure you and I are in the same grade, Misty. I'm also almost sure you're 16 or 17. Around the same age as me.

Things like that are just what people "our age" do these days. That's become the teenage culture. To drink, party, smoke, have sex, try drugs etc. Some people find it fun and want to do it for ever. Others do it to escape from their reality. Some just want to try it for a while.

I'm no fan of drinking, I've tried it once and don't care for it. I don't see how getting drunk and doing crazy things, passing out, and forgetting half of it is fun when you can be sober and just be a raging maniac for the hell of it.

I don't know your friend, but I can see why you'd be worried about her especially since throughout high school I've been in a similar position to you, socially, especially this past year. I'm sociable with everyone in school to the point where I talk freely in class, but past that I only really consider one person to be my friend. Me and this person are similar people, have similar tastes, and have known each other for a while. I know he parties about as much as I do, which is a decent amount and we tell each other plenty of stories and sometimes I do worry about him and the things he does.

The key to it all is, you have to trust your friend to make good decisions for themselves because you can't always be around to act as their conscious when needed. Talk to your friend out it, but don't seem worried. Just talk casually about what she's doing, just advise her to be safe and stay out of trouble. Even joke about it a bit. That'll make them more comfortable with talking about it than you seeming worried. One thing I strongly advise though is going with your friend. You don't have to have a drink yourself, but it makes it easier being there, seeing first hand, and having her explain things to you. You'll get a lot more insight and understanding of the situation that way.

Like Peace-and-War said these types of things are usually just a phase for most people, and you shouldn't let this affect your relationship. Trust the person you respect and admire as a friend, and try to be her friend no matter what.

 

Personally, I've never been in a situation like that, mostly because I've never smoked nor drunk and don't plan to. When I was a little kid and we lived in Mexico, my dad actually gave me a sip of beer, which tasted horrible.

Alcoholism runs in my dad's family. In Mexico, he was bad with it and still was for a little while when coming up here. My mom and I came to the United States first, and then he came sometime after. I'd rather not get into specifics, so I'll just say that, coincidentally, when my mom and dad got a divorce, it started going away little by little.

Anyway, I agree that it could just be a phase. I apologize in advance if someone takes offense for whatever reason to the following, but it's kind of like the "sexual" phase, as I call it, that a lot little kids, pre-teenagers (12), and teenagers (13-15 -- maybe older) go through.

Little kids just experiment with other kids regardless of gender simply out of curiosity, which I'm pretty sure a lot of us have done, which is perfectly normal because it's just how kids are.

For the pre-teenagers (12) and teenagers (13-15 -- maybe older), I think that they experiment more to figure out what gender they have sexual tastes towards -- male or female.

Also, I have ages 12 to 15 for the teenagers there, but, in my own personal opinion, I don't think that there's a set time limit to choose what one likes. There could be two 16 or 17 year-old people that do "stuff" just because they can or it's fun however many times, but not be homosexuals. I actually read an article about that once, but I can't remember where it was from.

I've got friend who used to live here that I'd hang out with, but he moved to Texas, and he's homosexual. Apparently when his parents found out, his parents got mad at him.

Quite frankly, I think it's stupid that these heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual labels exist. Homophobia is just an excuse to hate homosexuals and bisexuals -- just let the people like what they want. Homosexuals are just heterosexuals, but they just like the same gender -- they're still human. Hell, I've seen some homosexuals that are nicer to a heterosexual than a heterosexual. It's kind like the whole racism thing. There are some Africans that are nicer to an American than an American.

Again, I apologize in advance if this offends or disgusts anyone for whatever reasons.

EDIT:
To get somewhat back on-topic, like others have said, confront her about it if you're concerned. :)

 

Who's the real monster?

She could find just as many flaws with you, couldn't she?

Don. (As if he were taking the bit from his teeth, takes a hesitant step to the front) I think everything might as well come out now. (He turns toward Steve.) Your wife's done plenty of talking, Steve, about how odd you are!
Charlie. (Picking this up, his eyes widening) Go ahead, tell us what she's said.

We see a long shot of Steve as he walks toward them from across the street.

Steve. Go ahead, what's my wife said? Let's get it all out. Let's pick out every idiosyncrasy of every single man, woman, and child on the street. And then we might as well set up some kind of kangaroo court. How about a firing squad at dawn, Charlie, so we can get rid of all the suspects? Narrow them down. Make it easier for you.

From The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street​

 

Laria, that's not helping, and that's not her problem.

Misty, if you're really worried about it, you should talk to her. I say this for everything, but sometimes it really works when you have a heart to heart, even if that means you have to strap the other person to an electric chair and threaten them until they listen.

I'd have to be honest, I've met a lot of people like your friend, they were good, and then they got into the whole drug and alcohol deal, and from there it just got worst. The entire track team and cheerleading squad at my school are all on drugs and tripping acid and stuff, some of whom used to be my friends in middle school or in our early high school years. Even though it hurt to let some of them go, that's what had to be done, I didn't want them to drag me down with them, like they had before so many times, our friendship just wasn't worth the rest of my life.

You're not a terrible or stuck up person for thinking about these kinds of things, they cross my mind all of the time.

 

I'd like to point out that just because you drink, doesn't mean you use drugs, which seems to be a misconception a lot of people have.

 

First of all, thank you everyone for your responses. <3 Some of you did come off as a little harsh but I get it, sometimes you have to be when you're helping someone, I take no offense.

See, I have a lot of trouble confronting people, but I suppose that I've got to get over that & stop being such a baby. Easier said than done, of course, but it's good advice.

That's sort of the problem here, it really sucks to be losing this respect for her, but I feel really ****** for being that way. What she does should be her own business, but I fear it's becoming a part of her as a person, and that's not the sort of person I'd like to associate myself with.

I have known her since elementary school, but we've only been good friends for about two or three years now. This has only been a recent development, and I'm afraid it's going to become a similar case to what happened with my previous friends--them getting into behaviors that I just didn't agree with, and later become people I just didn't agree with.

I am still friends with her, I'm not nasty to her at all and we still talk and all, but I've just lost some respect for her from this.

But drinking is not a healthy way of coping. I know she has had a not so great childhood and it still continues today, but drowning her problems in alcohol will not fix anything. Sure it may provide some temporary relief, but the problems are still going to be there, and in the long run this will only create more problems.

She does keep me in the dark about her past, but I'm okay with that, because I don't tell her anything about mine. I don't think either of us are ready to talk about what has happened to us before we knew one another, and we have a sort of silent understanding there--we both know that we have unresolved issues, and that if one of us does want to talk, the other is there, but we don't pry or pressure each other into saying anything.

We do do things together. We see one another at work, and our job has a lot of downtime where we usually just sit around and talk. We took driver's ed together, we take classes together in school, we get together for movie nights, we talk over text message & AIM a lot, etc. It's not as if no effort is made. She knows and is okay with the fact that I prefer to stay home and not get involved with people, when others question it or make fun of me for it she always defends me about it. She does try to get me involved with others sometimes but I'm really just not emotionally prepared for things like that, and she's okay with that. We've had this sort of friendship for some time now and we always have things to talk about.

That's the thing though, I don't think they're drinking to lighten the mood, I think they're drinking to get drunk, going out/getting together with the sole intention of drinking. I have no intentions of ever going out drinking, it's just not something I'm okay with personally. Some people want to wait until they're married to have sex, some people hate cats, some people want to drive red cars; I don't want to drink. It's just not who I am or something I am ever interested in trying.

It is fitting but for other reasons, originally I was planning to post more about where I live but it ended up being what it is. I suppose I should expand a bit more on the people I am surrounded by, though. My town is a very white & upper-class place. My family has had money issues since my parents were divorced when I was seven, so I feel I can't even relate to a lot of these people. They have opportunities and privileges that I could never have. In Catherine I found someone who also had a poor family history and is not a rich kid, for lack of a better term, and we got along very well. Finally there was someone I could relate to. Before meeting her I was very down on the human race, I assumed that all places and people were like the ones I was so disgusted by in my town, but when the two of us became friends I started to have hope that that wasn't true. That was recently shattered by realizing that she was participating in the same things that irritated me about others.

Also, I would like to add that I don't think this is the forum's opinion at all. This is a decision I have made for myself for reasons far beyond this forum, reasons that were present before I even joined her. Sure maybe a number of people here do abstain from drinking, but there are also a number who do not, and I don't want you to think that my values regarding this were formed due to this site.

I do acknowledge that much of this could have been exaggerated because of bragging, but I'm not sure I'm okay with that either: if she's surrounding herself with people that are impressed by falling over drunk--and becoming someone like that--then I'm not happy with that either.

I'm not intending to lecture her at all. I have no idea what I want to do, which is the part of the reason I posted this.

But part of being a friend is looking out for the other's well being, and she's told me that she respects my judgement regarding these sorts of things. To pull from an IM convo:

Spoiler

Her: i think we dont fight because youre very passive, and im very defensive of you.
Me: oh? lol
Her: yes lol. you dont do **** to anybody, no one ever has an excuse to be mad at you, except maybe your family i dont go there lol. if we fought i would automatically think i was wrong and feel bad.
Me: haha i'm not sure if i should be glad that i am so righteous or upset that you're so willing to turn on yourself like that
Her: no lol. i just see you as a rational person, and i know i have a habit of becoming irrationally frustrated. therefore when i am angry my opinions/ideas are not reliable sources of reality lmao
Me: i wouldn't consider myself rational, just that i question myself a lot, so when it gets to the point where i actually do say something it's been pretty closely scrutinized
Her: a trait more people should have. if people doubted themselves more, we wouldn't have wars or religious battles
Her: i know there's that whole "you have to believe in yourself" element but still
Her: if people doubted themselves more mean girls 2 would not have been made and gary paulson would not be an author

They are older than her, most of them are a year or two (or more) into college, whereas we're both going into our senior year of high school. I'm unsure if it's a decision she made for herself or if she was pressured into it.

I do think this is the best option really, I don't plan to go out partying with her but I should get her side. Thank you. =]

I do admit that I do sometimes judge people easily, it is a problem I have and am well aware of it. I haven't let it affect how we associate with one another at all, because I realize it is pretty unfair of me to hold others to standards I set for myself, but I can't shake this feeling of disappointment in her, nor can I just brush it off when I hear about their drunken escapades.

It affects me in that I hear about it a lot, and that I'm afraid she's changing into a person I can't be friends with. Honestly I wouldn't have any problem not knowing about this, but unfortunately I already do.

And yes, it was great of her to get the job for me, and I did thank her profusely.

That's sort of the problem, though. I fear she's becoming like everyone else here.

I guess that is just something I would have to hope for, that it is a phase, but she's friends with our coworkers who drink, and is dating a coworker. (Or former coworker, he was fired shortly before I was hired) Being surrounded by people who are like that, I don't think she could just move on like that.

That's true, but in two years (she's a year older than me, though we're in the same grade), she won't be a teenager anymore, and I'm afraid things might be beyond just giving it a go. Once again, though, I don't know the exact extent of it all, so maybe it could be.

Mmm, seems like similar advice to Amethyst, which is what I think I might go with. Again, thanks.

And that's the thing--I have no problem if people drink, as long as it doesn't become who they are. That's what I fear is going on here, though.

 

I know how you feel about having few friends and such. From what you've said, you have every right to be afraid for Catherine. If you were to learn that she was being the better person, then things would be okay, but why not ask her about it? Just get some time to yourselves abd talk about this. Ask her if she's partying as hard as everyone else. If all else fails and she tries to get you to do it, just quit the job. Don't stay where they could do soemthing stupid to each other or to you. You're MUCH better than that Misty.

 

(Sorry, you all posted while I was)

That's the thing I'm facing I guess, if sitting down and talking to her yields poor results, I think it might just be a better choice for me to simply move on from her. She's free to choose whatever path she'd like, that's her right as a human, but if it's one I strongly don't agree with then I don't think I should force myself to be close with her if she's a different person now. I wouldn't drop her on her ass or stop talking to her or anything, that's not how I am, but I guess just not be so close to her. but that's getting ahead of myself, I do agree I should talk to her first.

Oh I know that, I'm fairly certain she's not into drugs. not sure if you were referring to me or not though.

 

No, not at all, it just seemed that in some of the posts, people believed alcohol/partying leading to drugs :)
But I still don't think you should move on from her. Having at least one close friend is great, and I regret "moving on" from mine.

 

Catherine could have gone "look, homey gamers are all myopic anti-social no-fun nerdz, me not talk to loozerz, ozerwize me became loozerz too" but she didn' t. She ignored the stereotypes and looked what kind of person Misty actually is. Why then should Misty feel the right to not return the favor and go "drugz are bads, drugz consumerz ekualz loozerz, me not talk to loozerz" ?

Not being into drinking is one thing, putting every drinker on the planet in a nicely reductive box labeled "loozerz I don' t wanna be friendz with, associated with, nor even respect, lol" is a whole other business.
Drinkers, as gamers and many other stereotypes, come in all flavors ...

 

This is all true but you took that out of context. I meant that she's better then staying and being tempted by idiots who liek drugs, alcohol, or both.