Is Alzheimer's a legitimate excuse to divorce your spouse?

Discussion in 'Debate Corner' started by Boy Wonder, Sep 15, 2011.

  1. KeybladeSpirit [ENvTuber] [pngTuber]

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    If the husband begins, as Patman said, seeing her as a jailer, then not only does she have the right to divorce him, she has the obligation to divorce him for his sake. If she loves him, she won't make him go through the psychological trauma of having to live in the captivity of a woman who he has "never" met.

    And of course he can divorce his wife, but if he doesn't remember her ever being his wife in the first place, he would not be able to divorce her for obvious reasons.
     
  2. Noroz I Wish Happiness Always Be With You

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    Loyalty has very little to do with it.
    I'm sticking to what I said. Regardless of how much you love the person, it will be too much to handle for yourself. Trust me, my grandmother has Alzheimers and it's impossible even for her children (my mother + 3 others) to take care of her.
     
  3. Te Deum Hollow Bastion Committee

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    Oh. Sorry.


    @Nekoki: Thanks for the info.


    I'll bring this to my debate team and see what the result is tomorrow.
     
  4. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Loyalty has everything to do with it.

    We will never agree. Why?

    I am argueing what's best for yur spouse. You are arguein what's best for you. Selfish indeed.
     
  5. Llave Superless Moderator

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    I concur, marriage is about others, not about you. If you marry for selfish reasons, why even marry? It's about mutual love and obligation to the significant other. "For better or for worse".
     
  6. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    My goodness... I should stop foruming from my phone. My typos are horrid.

    Thanks for the support Llave.

    My point stands. You married the spouse, and promised to look after them. How can you look into your spouses eyes and say you wanted to spend the rest of thier lives with them... and then within a few years... "She doesnt remember me. I'm out of here."

    Yes, medical facilities exist specializing in care for alzheimers patients. But its the families responsibility to visit the patient, and ensure that they are taken care of. Guess who is the closest family member? Not the children. The spouse. But that is of course... assuming the spouse isnt a coward who divorced them simply because it was not convient for thier lifestyle to be married to someone who is disabled.

    EDIT: Someone asked earlier if an azheimers patient can divorce someone. The answer is no. If an alzheimers patient is declared incapable of managing thier own personal affairs (in america, it takes two doctors declaring them unfit, which is given at the time of diagnosis) then they have very limited rights. Its done to protect the alzheimers patient. For example, a greedy child decides to rewrite the will, and going against the parents wishes, they pressure the parent to rewrite it to the sole benefit of the greedy child. Since the parent is not of a sound state of mind, it would be easy to pressure the parent into such an agreement. This is another reason spouses should stay around. Its called "Elder Finanancial Abuse" which is basically someone taking advantage of the elders disabled position. The elderly is most vulrable in the phase when the alzheimers is begining, but they have not officially been declared incapable to manage thier affairs.

    Guess who takes advantage the most? Nurses and caretakers. Now, most nurses and caretakers are honest people. But think, they have only a professional emotional attachment to the alzheimers sufferer. Such a distant attachment makes it easy for them to take advantage.

    Without a family member of sound mind nearby to say whats right and wrong, they are all the more vulnrable.
     
  7. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

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    I do agree with ICSP here.

    If you agree to marry them, or even just dedicate your life with someone without marriage vows, then you should honour your agreement to them. If you only account your view in a relationship then effectively you shouldn't have been in such a dedicated relationship in the first place. Do you think that your spouse will be happy you divorce them? Or sad? Or feel anything?

    It's tragic to think that you have no identity, no memory and no awareness of what your life was like before this very moment. And when you have a crisis such as suffering Alzheimers, you would believe that your friends and loved ones would help you during this unfortunate time. The only thing you have to identify yourself at that point is those that are around you, their personality and ideas reflected on you. If they abandon you, then truly you have lost all that you are. You are not a friend, or a family member, a neighbour or a person to anyone. You are alone. That is one of the most fearful places to be in your life, to realise that you don't know who you are anymore, and you're alone in your mind.

    Grounds of divorce should be a last resort. And even then you shouldn't leave your partner behind.
     
  8. Daydreamer

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    Divorce =/= abandoning, at least in my point of view. If I divorced someone I loved because he/she has Alzheimer's, I would want to make sure that person is well cared for, like any decent person. But I would want my romantic loyalties to go elsewhere if I can't satisfy them with him/her.
     
  9. Llave Superless Moderator

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    I understand what you mean, but i do find that a bit selfish. Sure, it's ok to be happy, but the reason you married that person was because of that said love. "Giving up" on them just because they can't love you in a physical or even sexual way doesn't mean they don't need you to be there for them. Abandoning definitely shouldn't be an option, it would be cruel to do so, but unfortunately it does happen. I suppose it is more of your choice, but divorce is not an option in my book.
     
  10. KeybladeSpirit [ENvTuber] [pngTuber]

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    You're still not getting what I'm arguing, are you? Is it really best for my spouse to have me living in her house, sleeping in her bed, eating her food, watching her television, etc, all the while keeping her in that house with all my power because I say the world is too dangerous for her when she has no idea who I am and may not even recall meeting me? If she is ever in a state like that, then I have the obligation to NOT put her through that psychological trauma. Would you honestly want your spouse to be in constant pain because of you? In staying married, you're effectively saying to yourself, "All that matters is that I love her. It doesn't matter if she feels the same way because one of us still has a commitment. Therefore, I must stay in this relationship no matter how much it hurts her."

    Are you really saying that your commitment is more important than the emotional well being of person you love?
     
  11. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    Not just commitment, but their physical, and emotional wellbeing are endangered here. If the spouse isn't in the picture, who will take care of them? The children? I thought we already established this as unlikely. Nursing care? Sure, if you watch the news, you'll realize that this is a roll of the dice.

    You are saying that your precence will bother them. I am saying that truly leaving their fate to someone else will destroy them, in our world, as well as thiers.
     
  12. KeybladeSpirit [ENvTuber] [pngTuber]

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    You don't necessarily have to completely abandon her/him. You can still care for her/him as a best friend. It would simply be better for the spouse who is unhealthy to not have to live with a human who (s)he may not trust to live in her/his house. All you need to do is get an apartment near his/her place of residence and stop by to ensure that (s)he is doing well. Over time, (s)he may trust you enough to care for her/him in the home again. And there's also the whole "Why am I filing my taxes with you like we're married when I don't even know you?" It'd make it easier in that way too.
     
  13. Noroz I Wish Happiness Always Be With You

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    That is incorrect. You don't marry because of the other person. You marry for you own selfish reasons. You want to spend the rest of YOUR life with her (or him).

    And I'm with Nekoki on this one, just because you divorce her, doesn't mean you're leaving her.
    If you divorce her, you can at least fill a part of the void that has been left after you're spouse left you. And it is the same as her leaving if she has alzheimers, because to her, you're nobody.

    I'm not saying it's necessarily the right thing to do. I'm saying its what is best for both parts. You can argue as much as you want against it, but your wife doesn't remember you, do you really think she'll let you sleep in the same bed as her? Do you think she'll be thinking of you, lovingly? No. She'll be wondering what the hell is going on.

    Loss of love is not the only reason people divorce. He'd still be able to take care of her etc.
    My Grandmother has visitors all the time, and she has both good and bad days, and on the bad days, it's hard. It's impossible for non-professionals to take good care of her. On good days, it's not hard. But the bad days are the ones that strains.
     
  14. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    First of all, I love how you just started ignoring my logical post in an effort to keep yourself from looking like heartless monstrocities.
    People declared unfit to manage their personal affairs do not file taxes. Even if they were legally allowed to, they woul be incapable of such an act.

    Additionally, leaving them alone is th most assured way to ACTUALLY abandon them. It'd only be a few weeks, maybe even days, beforethey burn their house down trapped inside, invite a total stranger into their house, or worse.
    Dear god. You are lost. Enjoy your life of solitude. I hope no one ever has t depend on yu.
     
  15. Noroz I Wish Happiness Always Be With You

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    How about you shut the fuck up and respect a Logical point of view. I'm one of the most caring and considerate people you should hope to ever meet, you have no idea who I am or what I do. I hate ignorance. I've seen alzheimers first hand ffs, my grandmother has it! I know the toll it takes on people, I know the toll it took on me, when you go to meet your own grandmother and she doesn't recognize you.

    I'm not even saying that is what I would do, I'm arguing that its understandable and that I wouldn't judge anyone for doing it.
     
  16. Daydreamer

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    The only thing I care about in a relationship is that each party stays happy. If something happened to me where I become no longer myself, like a permanent coma, the last thing I would want is my lover to stay romantically bound to me the rest of his/her life. I don't see the point of a "romantic contract" when a party, not necessarily at his or her fault, breaks it. I don't know how a romantic relationship would continue if it was left up to only one person.

    Please, this is getting out of hand. Please debate in a respectful manner.
     
  17. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    This debate is on whether its reasonable to divorce someone.

    I think its stressful, but not a legitimate excuse, as the one being divorced is now more dependandant then ever. Just imagine the justice if your grandma was left, alone. Yes, it is messed up that she can't reember wo she is, or her family. But imagine if they decided it was best for them, to distace themselves from her.
    I don't see itgetting out of hand. You say you think its a justified reason for divorce. I say tha thatis cold blooded and heartless. :) Tell m how it is not cold blooded and heatless to excuse yourself when thy need you most.
     
  18. Daydreamer

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    I'm not saying it's a justifiable reason. I've been saying you're already divorced once one partner becomes unable to make informed decisions for oneself.

    EDIT: Also, just to be clear, a marriage contract requires both parties to be mentally competent.
     
  19. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

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    But, part of the implied commitment of marriage is that you'll take care of your partner. I think it would be shameful to abandon them when they needed you the most.

    Also, I do not see the connection between them "Alzheimerz" and "No more commitment." I believe they need you the most. So the commitment must be strongest then.

    Finally, they truly need you. They may not want you, you may not want them. But they truly NEED you. I cannot underline it enough. They are literally unable to survive without people looking out for them. And if you decided that your commiment as a spouse was over when they started doing bad, you are denying their need. Therefore, abandoning.

    Yes, you are correct. They cannot enter anew contract.
     
  20. Daydreamer

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    About that, the contract should be forfeit, not just can't enter anew.
    Although, a person with Alzheimer's can still be competent. The contract will only be forfeit if the spouse's mental competence has deteriorated by so much.

    But I also believe that there's a difference between love and marriage. You don't have to be married to someone to still love them or care for them.