Kingdom Hearts II Kairi's Character

I can support you there Repliku. FFVI is a great game. The stat growth is based on the espers you equipped, but let me stop there, I don't want to spoil the whole game! Anyways, back one topic, Kairi's character isn't bad, she's just a damzel in distress that's learning who to defend herself, if we compare her to Zelda, im sure things would end up like Kairi even getting kidnapped even with her keyblade.

 

she is niiiice:p
Specially when she became a teenager:p

 

We should not compare her to Zelda...okay you didn't say Princess Peach. That would have been the worst. lol. At least Zelda has Shiek. So yeah, I guess the comparison works more. I don't 'hate' Kairi but just really think Nomura ought to rethink how he designs females for games that are supposed to be main characters. I wouldn't care if Kairi was just in the cast like Selphie and Tidus etc. It just is a bother to think that she's one of 3 'main' characters and is just so not that interesting. She's got nice looks but really other than that she had not been at all interesting for me until the end of KH2.

 

Don't you mean Kairi is to Sora as Peach is to Mario.


But Kairi should be able to fight, but only enough to defend herself. Again, she needs more personality.

 

Thank you for the compliment. Much obliged!

By the way, Repliku, This debate in particular is off topic. Just ignore.

She isn't a"supposedly" better character. Sakura is a BETTER character than Kairi in EVERY WAY! That is the GOSPEL truth. Kairi saved Sora's existance due to a cliche deus ex machina. Cause, face it, somebody had to turn him back to normal. If it had been his friends or Riku, it would have been so much more interesting than Kairi's "deep feelings" for Sora.

That was Fangirl Sakura. When she was still immature and only liked Sasuke for his "looks". Otherwise known as a...FLAW!!!. Which made her interesting when she matured in her feelings. Name ONE personality flaw that Kairi has.

You are grasping at straws here trying to defend Kairi. She was watching her teammates viciously fight each other and aim deadly jutsus at each other. She was upset. It was not supposed to be practical and logical. It was an emotional scene. And one that showcased Sakura's feelings about the event. When has Kairi ever had that?

Haha! You are not comparing Sakura getting captured in battle to Kairi getting captured twice(The second time for NO reason). Plus, Has Kairi ever got captured for protecting someone from a deathblow? I think not!

You seem to equate fighting techniques with character and personality development. Though Sakura utter RAPES Kairi in both. That scene was an excellent scene of character development for Sakura. It showed tha she was now shedding her fangirl personality and was now taking the buisness of being a ninja seriously(This development actually begin in the Land of Waves Arc when she cried over Sasuke's "dead" body)

The FOD was where Sakura really begin to come into her own as a character. Kairi has NEVER had this.

Haha, that Abridged quote is real funny. And we are not comparing their fighting experience. WE are comparing there character development. The things that make these characters tick. And talking about how Sakura has CD in abundance. Kairi IS A GLORIFED DEUS EX MACHINA with no personality or engaging flaws. She is a Mary Sue.

 

She IS a princess of heart, he has a pure heart, she has a keyblade... Well, kindga given by Riku and not received but Sora recevied the keyblade from light, Kairi thinks that Riku is still light so she received her keyblade and she has a connection with a keyblader (Aqua). I have a feeling that she will be trained by Mickey and Yen Sid more strictly than Sora and Riku, since they both have MAD SKILLZ in keyblading, specillay Sora. Anyways, Kairi's character will change in KHIII, since I expect taht she takes place in battle and becomes something similar like Mickey wehn you die in a boss battle.

 

I think I figured out the ending of Kingdom Hearts 3... after you defeat an army of Heartless... you reach the final room... and rather than finding Kairi, you find a Mushroom... who sais... "Thank you for rescueing me Sora, but Kairi is in another castle."


And thats the only time we ever hear of Kairi...

 

Well, we're comparing and contrasting right now, and Sakura came up as a example ^^;. Might as well give reason why Kairi's development is bland below other female fighters.

No problem. I kind of left the Naturo explanations about Sakura to you, since I'm not such a avid watcher, though I have understood Sakura's character and everyone's growth in the show.

That, my friend, would consequently doom Kairi's character completely. By that point, she has risen above Sue status, to the point where she isn't real. All hope, if any, is lost.

If Nomura wants to do any good for her, in KH3, if Kairi has to be a out of nowhere fighter with a out of nowhere Keyblade, the best path is to show her growth and learning at how she handles the weapon, and the skills she slowly learns, to make some mistakes and sometimes fall, with only her determination making her keep up, instead of being such a incredible expert the next time we see her. Now that...THAT, is what I would appreciate. Along with some flaws in personality. And not make her do awesome things just to show off how "strong" and "bad@ss" she's suppose to be like they did in KH2.

For some reason, if she does end up fighting if the Keyblade ever appears again, I predict that it would pull something like Sora and Riku trained her while in the islands, and now she's all nasty with her moves :/. Worse outcome, is that she's just amazing without any training at all.

Naminé managed to affect. She's flawed. In fact, being emotionally weak, meek, and so introverted are flaws in itself (and even "shallow", as someone else placed it). Those are seen as negative (compared to Kairi, who's filled with positives in personality), and is funny or ironic, because what was posted about her to say she isn't better than Kairi is the exact reason why Naminé is more likeable. With that, she's overshadowed her Other by miles. If you don't like what a particular character is doing or how they are, then they are on the right destination. Kairi is different in dislike, because is not her flaws that give her depth in the story that turns off the viewer, but rather, her lack of it and perfection. Kind of odd.

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However, I do disagree with the whole liking Roxas thing. In my opinion, it's psychological, the Sora situation was that she was tired of being lonely, and kind of selfishly, wanted Sora to be her hero, or at least have one person who mattered, just like Kairi did (she later found this with Roxas...not as strong, and just beginning, but there). She didn't want to be by herself any longer, it just got out of hand due to the obvious circumstances she was in. Not to mention, Sora, as his friends put it, was really laying it on thick with her, being so sweet and nice. Any girl will blush xD. It was just more of a want, then a actual crush or liking, and Sora was utterly kind. For Roxas, in the most part, she was just being helpful to him, as she has been for the time. They had a few hints around, but naturally, they weren't going to make Paopu drawings five minutes later, and it seems like they both just really liked each other's company (take that as you will) as they kept bonding. Not love at first sight or anything....just more innocent. Is like smitten with somebody, which is not unusual with any us when you meet someone at first. Is not like she was, "ZOMG!Roxas!We'llbetogetherforever*glomps*"

And is not like they had a choice in the end when they had to return to the originals, did they? It was lucky enough they got to know each other and met to develop something. Then again, there's also the argument that being Sora and Kairi's Nobodies, they would have that connection and just click. I didn't see it as canon OOC as Naminé never changed her persona, or that it was something new we've seen. You have to consider the knowledge she acquired a year after Castle Oblivion and that it wasn't just Sora anymore by that point, her thoughts were on meeting everyone who had something to do with her, including Kairi, as she said outloud in the FM+ new scene as well. This showed a change on view enough that she can move forward and not depend on solely Sora as she did before. She even spent much of her time with Axel, who at one point, kept her safe from Saïx (well, that was more in the novels...). Riku also didn't get rid of her at Ansem's orders as well. Is that not a show of concern from others? Roxas was just next on that list.

It was fair, and in retrospect, she got what she was looking for. She gained half of Sora to be her own knight in shining armor :P (*coughs*andinmyeyesthebetterhalf*coughs*). I don't know..I didn't find it absurd.

But yeah, I'm getting rather off-topic ^^;, I just needed to add my two cents as the statement came up.

 

Spoilers for game throughout post

That would be interesting if they did that. Although to be fair, Nomura only let her kill a few Heartless. He could have done worse – she could have jumped off that balcony, done a stunt in mid-air, summoned her Keyblade while doing so, landed perfectly on her two feet and vanquished the Heartless easily. And she would have joined the party at the same level as the other characters.

Still, I was actually disappointed that she got a Keyblade. I hoped that she would be one of those heroines who would prove her worth without having to fight (like Mara of the Acoma in Daughter of the Empire). But then I was disappointed that Riku got a Keyblade as well (I didn't think he needed one to be a good character).

If Kairi does have any flaws, it’s that she’s impulsive. Jumping off the balcony generally wasn’t a very good idea. Although nobody’s blamed her for it yet. It’s possible that this flaw could be worked on later. And in regards to Riku, she did say, “Just kidding” in that scene but she also says before that “You know…Riku’s changed” and eventually tells Sora not to change. I don’t know. I think that she was a little suspicious of Riku’s recent behaviour and wasn’t sure if she could trust him anymore and just said it in the wrong way (although I think she realised that he wasn’t such a bad person later and afterwards wanted both of them to return home).

She does have a personality. Not much of one (nor was it displayed very well), but it’s there. She laughs a lot and even jokes with Riku at one point (Riku: “And you’re just as lazy as he is” Kairi: “So you’ve noticed” or her laughing at her surprising Sora). This kind of shows that she is cheerful and perhaps has a sense of humour as well. She calls Sroa a lazy bum, tells him not to slack, gets annoyed at first when Sora says that she can’t go with him. And she demands him to give back her lucky charm and will not let Riku leave after she is reunited with Sora. Perhaps she is a little demanding as well? Regardless, these are possible personality traits that can be worked on and expanded in fanfic (you can't tell exactly how a character is supposed to behave unless he or she is your own creation anyway - you can make them believable but not exactly as how their original creator would have intended them).

The problem with Kairi is that while she does have a lot of emotions, most of them seem brief and she suffers from being too cheerful most of the time. Which some people interpret as no personality. I think she has flaws but they weren't shown very well and need some work on.

No she doesn’t stalk Cloud. She is clearly attracted to him but she is too shy to admit them while Aeris (who I thought was one of the emotionally strongest in FF VII) was pretty open about her feelings.

Fixed.

Now I don't know what you would realistically do but frankly I would be running away crying if I was unfortunate enough to be encountered by a bunch of Shadows.

Actually, I think that Axel kidnapped her to reunite her with Namine (there’s that dialogue between him, Riku and Namine which takes place around after Sora leaves Twilight Town for Yen Sid’s castle - I don't know if you played Final Mix or not, but I have). However, his plans went up in smoke when Kairi got away from him and Saix appeared to use her as bait for Sora.


Anyway, I think that Kairi has a little bit of personality but she still needs a lot of work on. I have interpreted possible flaws but Nomura still needs to work on them. Actually, I don’t think that most of the KH cast were that well developed actually, especially not a lot of the Organization (I thought that Xaldin was the worst. And no, being a villain does not give him an excuse). Still, I’m giving Kairi a chance because I don’t want to be horribly biased against her if she actually does get good character development. I thought that Xaldin had the worst development and Axel’s characterisation just confused me (he was an evil, manipulative and seemingly heartless backstabber in COM but he seemed quite soft in KH II to the point where he even regretted kidnapping Kairi and there was no good explanation for it). But I’m giving them chances as well. I think that Nomura did screw up parts of the game but it would be unfair on his part if I don’t think that he’s forever doomed with Kairi. He may or may not care for her character. But we really don’t know what he plans for her in the first place – whether she’s there for convenient use or he has some great plans for her in the future (which he may or may not screw up).

Nomura creates the games. But he apparently did have to take stuff out at Disney’s request (http://www.kh2.co.uk/?page=NI/IGN), so he isn’t allowed to just do whatever he likes and Disney do have some say in what goes in the game, even if they aren’t really in charge. Although I don’t see why Disney would limit Kairi’s personality anyway so people shouldn’t blame them. It’s bad enough when people blame Disney for no Axel/Roxas romance (if it weren’t for Disney in the first place, there would be no Kingdom Hearts and therefore no Axel/Roxas subtext for people to argue over).

End spoilers

 

What character? >__>

I really don't like her, which is not strange. I hate Mary Sues. And she doesn't need to be a warrior. You don't need to be a warrior to have a personality and be useful. Trying to make her badass failed so hard in KH2, after all.

I second this.

Because Namine's were treated like flaws. Kairi is always treated like the perfectly nice princess... even when she isn't.

Exactly. Besides, as I said before, Namine's flaws were not treated like endearing qualities.

And I agree, Naminé is a Nobody and she has more flaws and character than Kairi could ever hope to have.

But Terra was not designed by Nomura.

 

Read the entire Q & A the only "limits" Disney set (and rightfully so) were on the WORLDS (as well as the general rules of the worlds) and the characters that already belonged to Disney! So in a way this is a shot in the foot for your point. In fact if anything this quote:

Referenced Link

There you have it, Nomura himself states his main gripe is not "Oh they are hindering the characters I created and how I will develop them" but "Keeping and managing the WORLDS," the bloody WORLDS of KH2! If you can't figure out how I deduced this, please re-read again.

(Also consider that Hollow Bastion, Destiny Islands, Twilight Town, Traverse Town and The World That Never was were all "original worlds" that Nomura could freely create the rules for, therefore he created the rules for the characters on those worlds as well. None of the main cast, specifically Kairi, our topic of interest, came from any Disney world, and after fulfilling her role as princess she still couldn't be a learning fighter like Mulan, an emotional support like Belle, or SING WITH A MINIGAME LIKE ARIEL and so forth. I think Nomura is kind of running out of excuses for this matter.

 

I would -hope- that Kairi just doesn't appear in KH3 as a fighting goddess that just automatically knows how to do everything. Sora actually learned to fight from Riku and developed his own fighting style. Kairi should probably learn from the two boys and it be shown she had some trouble doing so. It'd be nice to see that she trained.

I did find that stupid jump off the balcony ledge to be so lame it hurt. First off, the way she jumped and wearing that dress...she should have either had her undies showing ridiculously or hit her head from the awesome swan dive she did. The ledge wasn't that far down she could have fixed it and landed on her feet with bent knees.

However, I didn't really care about the hair flip. I'm just curious how the heck she learned to jump off things like that when in KH she couldn't even keep up with the two boys in running at all and they were 'jogging'. It doesn't make much sense.

Also, I agree with Zandyne. I've never seen anything that Nomura has stated that suggests he did not have rights to do with Kairi whatever he wanted. She could have been stronger like Mulan, or even the princess in 'Enchanted' who picked up a sword. She could have been more feeling and scholarly like Belle or ran like Aurora or been adventurous and active like Ariel...or fought and had a tude like Jasmine. Disney does do more with their princesses now especially and anyone who's seen the Aladdin cartoon could say that Jasmine does some pretty active things in it but she's definitely still considered a princess and fits the role. I believe the design is all on Nomura, as it fits more with his stereotypical females that are white mages with powers of supernatural beyond that giggle, run about and need the lead male to save them constantly.

I still don't hate her, but it's just hard to feel much for her but pity because she's been so poorly developed. And I do find her prettier than Namine. Pale blond girls that look all ethereal I guess just don't get it for me. However, looks alone won't help her if in KH3 Nomura doesn't do something with her 2d personality.

 

Okay, I should have read more of the interview and I apologise for that (although I definitely did read the quote you put which is funny because if Disney did make him pull something out then they must have seen seen something going on, even if they hardly ever saw the game being made - either Nomura didn't choose his words clearly enough or something went wrong with IGN's translation). But I have read it all now and my point still stands. However, if you want me to read then please do note that I said this in my last post:

So my point was (and still is) that Disney had some say in what Nomura put into the game (and no, he did not say that the Disney worlds and characters were the only problem – he said they were the main problem - unless, again, he didn't mean it word for word or the interview got it wrong - and there weren’t any big issues when developing the game, so I don’t think that his freedom was hugely limited) so he isn’t allowed to go completely nuts and do whatever he likes. And I cannot think of any possible reason why they would want to limit Kairi's personality. Jasmine wasn't perfect - she was naive at the start of Aladdin and she could also be a bit bad-tempered and follow her emotions too much which could get her into trouble. Ariel was curious and daring, which once resulted in her getting chased by a shark and got her into trouble with her father. Meg worked with Hades and began to have moral dilemmas of trying to win her freedom from Hades and doing the right thing (not to mention that she actually died in Hercules). I’m getting sick of Disney being blamed for everything that went wrong in Kingdom Hearts anyway.


So I was actually mostly agreeing with what you said.

 

Hmm. I would actually be attacking Sora's personality. He fell into a distinct rut in KH2. He was clueless, and Goofy became the brains. It was funny the first time, but halfway through the game, it just became groan inducing.

But I digress.

Kairi has some personality, mostly at the start of KH1. Her "Let's take the raft and go, just the two of us!" piece developed character, and honestly was rather pointless. That was good! We need pointless character developing things, instead of plot developing things! This is done on the worlds with characters like Ariel, but not with Kairi.

Sakura old version is as shallow as Kairi. Hell, she is worse, as Kairi does not have whole episodes dedicated to picking flowers!

Namine has far more detail than Kairi, because she was a naughty girl. She strung Sora along, but was then sad about it.

 

Werll i guess so. But then again what would Sora have to do if she didn't keep getting kidnapped? KH3 would be pretty boring just walking around Destiny Islands the whole time.

 

...That better be a bad joke. Sakura old version had more character and depth in her little pinky fniger, than Kairi has in her perfect little plastic body. Maybe Kairi needs some flower picking scenes, as those scenes gave us a look at Sakura's character and what she was all about.

 

you should be able to choose who you have in ur party, choice outta all of em, or b able to fight alone or with only one ally :)

 

No joke. Sure, I can deal with three minutes of flowers, but a whole episode dedicated to what sort of flowers go with what? Kairi's old character still had some, back at the island.

When I said Sakura was worse, I meant in a general way, not character.

Old Sakura had little going for her. Blind fangirlism, and that is it.

She was supposed to be a Ninja, but did nothing Ninja-ey. With Kairi, she is a princess of heart. Are you going to argue that she did not follow the role of princess?

 

I so agree. At least Kairi fit her role to a good degree by being a little Princess of Heart and being 'innocent' etc. It gave her no personality, sure, but at least we all knew what she was meant to be. I think the point here though is the hopes that Nomura will cast females better so they aren't always in the role Kairi filled...at least though we knew what that role was supposed to be without conflict..even if it makes some of us twitch.

 

Ok. First off, I suggest you go back and reread what those scenes meant. Cause what you just conveyed is ignorant.

Sakura was dealing with her confidence issues and the fact that she would never leave Ino's shadow. She believed that all she would ever be was Ino's right-hand girl.

Ino told her that she was a bud. A late bloomer. But Ino was showing her that like most "late bloomers", when they finally blossom, they are amazingly beautiful.

It dealt with Sakura's character and personality development.

Old Sakura had little going for her? Just Blind Fangirlism?! The MAJORITY of Sakura's character was developed in her "fangirl" days. Kishimoto designed her to be immature about her feelings and such so it would be meaningful when she developed and walked down the path that would lead her to her Part II self.

She did nothing Ninja-ey? Hmm, Protecting her teammates from the Sound Nins, being able to Block off a high level genjutsu by Kabuto, Being the first to complete tree climbing. Saving Sasuke's life, saving Naruto's life?

I'd say she did alot more in Part I than she is given credit for. But it's not fighting or how much ninja stuff she accomplished that makes Sakura a great character as compared to Kairi. It's character development. How you character changes and adapts to situations.

Kairi isn't a plausible character in the slightest. She is only a plot device used to only give the plot alittle push.

Kairi is a princess? Who cares? There are plenty of princesses with character and depth. Kairi is not one of them. Only a plot device. And because of the fact that she is viewed as a character, I deem her a Mary-Sue not worthy of anyone's time. She's two-dimensional and predictable. And she gets Namine as a nobody, which I thought was bullshit. The way she gets Namine was horribly contrived and unnecessarily complicated.

My point is, even though Kairi is a Princess of Heart, it is the ONLY way she is tied to this game. Hell, if she is some all powerful princess, then the producers could have made her use some of those damn powers. But other than turning Sora back into a human, she did nothing. Her only real state seems to be either unconsious, or kidnapped. Kairi is a plot-driven shallow character, there is nothing else to do with her. Everything else feels forced and out of place.

People don't have to DO stuff(persay) to be good characters. Character development goes a long way. But Sakura has plenty, and Kairi hs Zilch. Therefore, Sakura(Part I and especially Part II) will ALWAYS been 100x better than Kairi.