Kingdom Hearts II Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix+ North America

if Square Enix is smart, they'll bring it over to europe and the US. think of all the money they would make. kh1 was a top seller, but since kh1 fm didn't come out in europe or the US, they lost many would-be buyers and thus, lost money. if they bring kh2 fm+ and RE:CoM over, they would make much more money. i'm still sad that they didn't bring kh1 fm over to europe or the US. i wanted to fight xemnas in the secret battle. my friend showed me that battle on youtube and all of the voices were in english, but they had japanese subtitles! what the heck?

and don't tell me to buy the swap magic or whatever because i do not want to buy something that i'll use for 1 game, even if it is kingdom hearts. it just seems pointless to me.

 

My personal opinion:

KH2FM+ is absolutely coming here. S-E has no choice--clearly they are fully aware of the demand in the US (maybe not Europe), thus in my opinion S-E will eventually ship it state side within late summer of early/mid fall.

Oh yay.

 

It's not that simple, actually. If Square-Enix re-voices Re:CoM in English--they risk the chance of losing money if the sales don't match KH2's. And that in itself, is doubtful.

As for the English audio/Japanese text, it's not a big surprise. The Japanese gaming industry has a habit of releasing the NA versions of video games back in Japan. This is mostly because very often the NA versions feature many more things than the original Japanese versions did. This isn't the case with KH2, but following convention isn't anything surprising in today's society.

As for telling you to get swap magic, no, I wouldn't tell you to get it if you only planned to play one game. But choosing to only use it for one game is your choice. There are hundreds of games that have been released in Japan but have never seen a NA release, and thus many of us gamers who are aware of titles such as these take advantage of them using methods like swap magic. I personally ownboth Gundam Seed OMNI vs ZAFT and Gundam Seed Destiny Rengou vs ZAFT II PLUS, two very amazing gundam titles that have yet to see a NA release. Others include games like DDR mixes that haven't seen NA shores, lots of anime games haven't hit NA shores either (in NA, the Naruto game Clash of the Ninja is up to the 2nd one, in Japan, it's already had 4 installments + the new Shippuuden EX one for the Wii, all of which haven't seen NA release yet).

 

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It probably will, all those executives know that the U.S. and everyone around it played a huge roll in their sales. I'd say it's a 90% shot

 

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Yes, but FM+ is a completely different kind of title than KH2 in terms of what it's trying to advertise. KH2 was a completely new title that had four years to develop hype for. Everything about the game was different and could be marketed because it had absolutely everything 'new' to offer to its audience. FM+ is hardly a unique title. Many could call it more of a Director's Cut than a new title on its own. As well, KH2 came out only a year ago, the public appeal for it definitely won't have enough time to become as great as KH2's was.

Also, you have to take into account that sales reflect how many were *purchased*, and does not accurately reflect how many of those people actually *liked* the game to the point that they'll buy the same game if it had some extras. This is why so many Hollywood films seem successful in the Box Office, yet are rated poorly by the critics. People buy tickets thinking it'll be great, then come out of it pondering why it was so horrible. This doesn't change the fact that they bought the ticket, but it does mean that not everyone who bought a ticket will be willing to buy a ticket to a sequel. In the case of FM+, this isn't even a sequel, but an expanded version of a game that overall--hasn't really changed.

That being said, it's also important to note that the cost to produce one copy of FM+ is probably higher than it was for KH2. FM+ now features two discs, and if you want English voice-overs for Re:CoM, there's your second very large addition to the cost of the production.

 

The time needed to dub the RE:COM would be difficult for previous actors.

Think about Sora's VA. His voice has changed alot since KH I and I dont think we can make his voice a young teenager again.

If you are getting Swap Magic JUST for KH II: FM+ then I think you are not thinking on a larger scale. As ロクサス said, there are a large number of games in Japan that have yet to see the light of day in NA and be dubbed.

 

But still, they know all the crazy fans of the game are around here, that will have an impact, you guys did bring up big points but I still think it's a big chance, call me an idiot

 

ur not seing the BIG PICTURE

U have to admit that it would be a pretty dumb move for Square Enix to not release it in North America or Europe. KH2 was the second most sold game of 2006 in America. If they release Final Mix+, the fans will be so exited that they'll $hit their pants. I mean literally $HIT THIER PANTS and cry in happyness (ino i will)!

It will probably sell even more than KH2 because of Re:CoM. there are TONS of Playstation fans that didn't have a GBA and couldnt get a chance to play CoM without an emulater (desperate such as I). So anyway, you cant argue with the sale numbers and profit, thats already a pretty good back up. And we all know that Square Enix wouldnt mind a few more 10 million dollars or more lol

So all im saying to you non-believers (uno who u are lol) that it would not be very wise to rule it out completely

 

http://kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=6420

:/

 

Did you... even read what we wrote? There are MANY dimensions to this question that you have to consider.

It's not the fanbase as much as it is the economical factor SE risks. NA voice actors cost a crap load of more money than JP ones to hire. And there's two discs this time. The price to produce one copy of Final Mix+ is dramatically more expensive than it was to produce one KH2 disc. As well, voice actors sign on to contracts years at a time. FM+ production began no later than 6-8 months after the release of KH2 in North America. This is too sudden for them to call back voice-actors for the game as many would've moved on to future projects already. Moreso, accomodations for flights, hotels, etc are all far more expensive for NA productions than JP due to sheer land mass size and the fact that NA games usually consist of voice actors from the US, Canada and some parts of Europe. JP's voice-acting is all local and thus productions costs would ALSO reflect that of a local market.

And no, 99% chance that FM+ does *not* sell as well as KH2 did during its NA release. No one waited 4 years for FM+ and unlike KH2, which was a completely new game, FM+ is *not* anything inherently new. You're basically saying that a few bonuses will outsell a completely new game? No, that's illogical. I'll repeat myself when I said that game sales reflect how many people *bought* the game, and does not accurately reflect how many people actually *liked* the game. Not every person who bought KH2 will bother buying a "bonus version". FM+ purchases will reflect how many people actually liked the game enough to want more. Example, if you watched the Matrix films, did you buy the Collector's version of the Matrix trilogy? I didn't. Or the Alien series? Just because you saw a film, played a game, etc, that doesn't immediately mean you're going to chuck out more money for something that is 80% the same, with only 20% new stuff.
I can almost say it's a fact that FM+ will not sell as well as KH2 did, it just won't.

So what you're left with is a product that costs so much more money to produce, yet there is almost a 100% chance of getting less returns. It's *not* a very good situation.

As well, Nomura stated in an interview that he didn't schedule for a NA release. He is probably *the* busiest man in Square right now as he has the Fabula Nova Crystallis that he has to prepare and this new Square/Disney game that is to be announced by the end of the year.

Nomura hardly has time to concern himself with porting KH2:FM+ to NA right now.

 

Sad as it is, the chances of KH2 FM+ to be released in NA are slim, and even slimmer for Europe.

They'd have to re-do the voice over for RE-Chain of memories, (it seems that they just mixed previous recordings, or made up some reason for the scenes to be mute in Kh2 FM+, you can see that in the PV that's around youtube), translate the names and properties of the new cards, the subtitles for both games, then make all the new copies, and then, chances are, the game wouldn't even seel as much as the original KH2. Why? Simple: It's full priced. Unlike, say, all the PSone ports of the SNES Final Fantasies, which where sold at half of the price of a regular brand new game (at least here in Europe), KH2 FM+ will be sold at a HIGHER price of the usual in a brand new games. And let's face it, most people don't want to spend 70$ on the same games with a few extras in it (assuming they put it on sale at about the same price they did in Japan).

Sure, you may point out all the people in forums that say "I want this game!!!!111111", however those people are a small number in the big picture. The truth is, most people would not be interested in re-buying the game.

And no, Square-Enix probably won't release it at a smaller price like most directors cut kind of games are. The re-make of Chain of Memories probably makes it not only worth, but necessary that they sell at a full price.

Sad as it is, in the end of the day, Square-Enix is a bussiness, and releasing KH2 FM+ in NA or any other territory outside Japan or at most, Asia, is a risk they probably don't want to take. If we consider how many people that would actually buy this game are importing, the sales would be even smaller, since those people won't buy it again.

PS: Hi I'm new :P

 

Dude you were definetly psyched when you found out about Final Mix+ werent u? So I'm sure that the millions of other KH fans were too, so wats keeping them from buying it? Who do u think buys KH games? Not people who like them, people who like them rent them, the fans are the ones who buy them. I know tons of people who "like" the games but never bought them, and I only know 5 or 6 people who bought the game because no matter how much they played they couldn't get enough. You are absolutely right about how expensive it would be to finance an America/Europe/wherever the hell else release, but that doesnt mean they wont do it. Ur "movie box set" point was also very true but we arent looking at a box set. A box set includes the same old stuff just with the sequels. What we are looking at here is a completely REVAMPED version of 2006's second highest selling game and a whole new PS2-attised (yeah...) version of CoM. That means its sure to get all the same KH fans who bought KH2 buy the revamped version, not to mention the other game that comes with it.

Also, I may be completely wrong about this peice so feel free to shoot me down lol, i wonder how really had it could be to make a NA version. KH2Final Mix is already filled with the english voice acting, all they need to do is change the japanese subtitles and menu screens right? And for CoM, most of it doesnt even have VA, its just the Castle Oblivion floors. Worse comes to worse, if they really have a hard time with paying the VA, they could just make english subtitles and menu screens and leave the Jap dialogue. Anyway, thats my rant (i may be wrong in this paragraph tho)

Ya but SE still gets payed the same amount for the imported games dont they? If not then i'll shut up lol.
But if so then they still get money for each copy so it's no skin of their noses if they dont sell as much here.
And ino its a big risk but, as you said, SE is a buissness and taking big risks like this one is a huge part of being in a buissness. Knowing Nomura, he always carries a card up his sleeve and SE cannot predict how good or bad the sales will be here until they try.

 

No. The Collector's editions always have bonus DVDs with Deleted Scenes, extended scenes, featurettes, behind-the-scenes, production notes, director's interviews, character sketches, storyboards. I've seen some of the collector's stuff, there is a *lot* of extras.

Not everyone who played the game will like it enough to buy a fully priced game with 80% the same stuff. Not everyone's opinion of KH is the same or at the same level as you or me. You just *can't* compare a new game with one that's just been 'extended'. The appeal is not the same and the fanbase is inevitably divided once you start playing that charade. Like I said with the Collector's Edition Movie thing, *not everyone* will care enough about the extra scenes, or the deleted scenes, or the featurettes. Yet I've watched all three Matrix movies and own all three DVDs. But did I flinch when I saw the Collector's Edition Matrix Trilogy DVD set? No, I didn't. I didn't even bother.

The fact is that FM+ is *not* new. That is the biggest element of why it can't do better than KH2 in any respect.

What we're *really* looking at here is a game that costs 2x as much to make, but has less of a chance of beating its predecessor. That's what we're looking at here.

The only way I see FM+ being released to NA without the risk of losing money is if all they do is translate the subtitles and the menus. All that really requires is some changes to the subtitle track and editing of the text inputs. That, in itself, doesn't cost as much money.

But that in itself, wouldn't constitute a feasible "NA" release. Let me tell you the overwhelming amount of people who *don't* like the Japanese voices. I personally love them over the NA ones, but there is an incredibly large fanbase for English voice-overs out there for the KH series. It's very unethical and somewhat unstandardized if they released FM+ over here with Re:CoM completely voiced in Japanese, with english subtitles. It's not a culture that a lot of the NA gaming community is used to, and some of them may even be turned off even more about buying the game.

There are expectations that NA gamers as a whole expect, but those expectations make it all the more difficult to port the games they want to see reach NA shores.

NA versions of games *always* cost more to make, and is why more often than not, Japanese developers have a habit of making their NA versions better than the original to compensate for the extra money that they *need to get back*, or they risk losing it. You can treat it like an analogy of importing games from another continent. There's customs, taxes, inspection, all which need to be paid for before you get your game (which is why imports cost more). Similarly with bring games to NA, they need to be reviewed by the ESRB board first (as Japan uses CERO, which has different rules and regulations), then it needs to be edited with the changes made by the ESRB, revoiced, the discs need to be reproduced to fit the Region 1 NTSC standard of NA. Manuals and disc covers need to re-done and re-printed, papers need to be signed, etc.

Bringing a game to NA is a lot of money, and requires a lot of work. It has its own budget, which often exceeds the budget required from the original JP game.

 

Too many words!!!!!!!!

Anyway....I want it to come to.....

 

Ya but we are talking about a *game* here, not a movie. A movie you watch all the extra crap and thats it, ur done with it unless u have nothing to do one day and decide to watch it again for wtv reason. Instead a game you can play it again and again and again and probably not get bored of it ever (and probably have a better time with the game than the movie). All im saying is that you cant rly compare this issue to a movie issue.

You sayed it urself that KH2Final Mix's NA release was not a fanbased issue yet u are bring up the influence of how fans will react. Again, when you see a movie, you will eventually get bored of that movie because its the same stuff over and over again. But with Final Mix+, there are always new possibilities in the gameplay plus there is CoM to go along with it. It is definetly worth the buy. Also, you said that FM+ is not new...Well neither was Street Fighter 2: Champion Edition, Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Super Street Fighter 2, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo etc. The thing is that the game kept being updated and people still bought them.

Well what we are really REALLY looking at is two games in one box for the price of two. So you sort of get ur money's worth when making the game or buying it. ANd no one could really tell how it will beat its predecessor until it comes out.

When KHFM was released only in Japan, SE knew that they screwed up because people from the rest of the world were mightilly pissed off (well, i wasnt rly cause they didnt rly add much so i couldnt care less). But FM+ is different. Now they are adding tons of new scenes, abilities, weapons, drive form, boss fights and top it of with another game that comes with it. Its basically like buying two games exept they come in the same box, so you are not paying x2 for a extended game as you said. Also, the ESRB thing is part of every game and doesnt cost that much money or else every single game would cost the ubsurd price u make i out to be. And editing the things that ESRB has a fit about cant be too hard...its like deleting a file (i might be wrong here so critisize me if u must).

In the end, the only real problem is the voice acting...BUT MOST OF IT IS DONE!!! KH2FM already has its voice acting and CoM only has a few cutscenes that require voice acting. There is no reason why an effort to have it released in NA should not be done.

 

Yes, you can compare the two. The movies and extras will always be the same no matter how many times you play it, much how KH2 (Final Mix+ or not) will have the same boss battles, same items, same abilities, same ending, no matter how many times you play it. You may not think so, but economically, the impact of movies and games are inherently the same. They can be viably compared.

You've misunderstood the point being made. The fanbase makes it an economic issue. I said "It's not a fanbase issue as much as it is an economic risk". This phrase doesn't negate a fanbase issue, but it is saying economically it is more troublesome. But I'm not going to give you an english lesson on emphatical hierarchies. As well, you choose the wrong video game genre to say "new possiblities in gameplay". This is an RPG, not Super Smash Bros. You play alone, not with others. The game is the same.

And tell me, how much did Capcom pay to make Street Fighter 2: Champion Edition, Street Fighter 2 Turbo, Super Street Fighter 2, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo? Hardly a lot since you can't even compare the work went into FM+ to those particular titles. Also, none of those games outdid their predecessor, and that wasn't a problem because they spent crap to nothing to make them.

No. You pay for two games that aren't original for the price of two original games. And in the gaming industry, no 'Director's Cut' version of any video game has beaten its predecessor, ESPECIALLY if it was released as early as a year later.

No, Square didn't think any such thing. Don't make stuff up. They didn't release FM here because the NA version was really our 'Final Mix' because we got a lot more additions to our version than the original JP one did. They simply made a new one to please the Japanese fans, *not* us.

Tell that to the screening directors who have to fly in from different parts of the world to give their input. Also tell that to the game animators who have to be called back in to remake entire scenes or open up old files to reconfigure settings--not to mention this is considered overtime pay and many times these animators have already moved on to new projects and are not readily available. Please research before you make comments like these.

Games do cost 'an absurd' amount of money to make. Do you know how much the game industry costs collectively? Games can severely make or break gaming companies. Sega got manhandled into virtual bankruptcy and completely stopped making video games because of it. Games cost lots of money, know that fact, and know that this is why downloading games is the crappiest thing to do.

It's also not 'deleting' scenes. They have to usually be remade, resynced and re-encoded. And developers are lucky if that's ALL that happens. Because some games get incredibly destroyed on editing once they meet the ESRB, most developers try to script and plan their scenes that they think will get them through the ESRB without a problem (if they expect to take it to the NA market). It's a pain staking process because a lot of things fit perfectly when they first come out, then you come back with all sorts of requirements and cuts that you didn't want.

Imagine writing a long novel, then the editors make all sorts of adjustments and literally cause you to practically rewrite entire chapters or pages. That's money spent making, money spent to get rated, and money spent to remake.

A few scenes? There are quite a bit of lines that need to be done. And hiring NA voice actors (or Euro) is quite a pretty penny. Irino Miyo (voice of JP Sora) was a FAR cheaper price than Haley Joel Osment.

You're letting your love for the game get in the way of your judgment. Square-Enix is a business. Just because KH2 did well in NA, and you are excited about FM+, that doesn't mean Square-Enix's obvious choice is to bring it here.

You have to consider everything. I've merely touched on a few factors with the finances. You also have to take into account the timeline. The PS3 is on the rise, with some anticipated titles arriving during Q4 2007. Square is not all about KH and they have to keep up with the competition. Fabula Nova Crystallis, as I've said before, is their main priority because they *have* to focus on the next-gen currently to stay afloat, and the new Square/Disney project is also in the works and has Nomura's hands tied.

They have *no* time to work on this game for NA/Euro. And by the time they find time to want to do it, the obsolete nature of the PS2 demographic would be virtually non-existent.

 

There are reasons why it should and shouldn't come out and like this we'll be arguing forever. I'd just like to say that u are totally right about SE being a buisness and wouldn't take a risk like this but then why would they make a Final Mix+ in the first place? If they knew right off the bat that it would not beat its predecessor, then what would be the point of wasting money on making the game in the first place? I'm just saying that now that they have the game done why NOT release it here, even if it is expensive. SE has plenty of time to work on next-gen projects and they are a multi-billion dollar gaming company; they wont go bankrupt if KH2FM+ doesnt sell as much as KH2, right? KH2FM is pretty much english and CoM can use english subtitles if its *too expensive* as you keep saying. Though I dont rly see the meaning in that point, even though its really good, because Square Enix isnt exactly a miniscule, small budget company. I'm sure they can afford it. Anyway, I would be fine if they just released KH2FM and not CoM with it. It would be cheaper for them and us and u get the better of the 2 games. You gave me alot to think about man, thx!

 

They make money if it's released in Japan. They make profit there because it's local and sold locally. The moment they move to the international level, they can lose money. That's the simple truth.