Mafia [MAFIA] [GAME OVER, TOWN VICTORY] The Classic Setup: Game 1

You know what, I actually have to apologize for this accusation, as upon going back for the evidence I realized I read that entire conversation wrong, and I am not willing to push a conversation that doesn't hold this point. So I am sorry. The conversation was about being able to accuse under the solid foundation that you would already know who all townies and mafia are if you were indeed mafia. Which Judge was using to point out why you did not accuse Mixt or I. This was his quote:

In regards to the cop part, I was not intending to imply you did this before Cal was suspected. I wasn't trying to say you were pushing for a cop reveal before Cal was even suspected. It was only AFTER Cal was being suspected by Cat that you began asking for Cal to reveal her leads because there was "no harm in doing so at this point since Cal was guaranteed to die from the mafia"

Except, the problem with this whole thing is simply that it wouldn't have benefited the town to only know who the two town players are would it have? It was day 2, and frankly way too early for this to benefit the town.

But the thing is with that voting, I don't see why people thought at the time Mixt was town? His ability to respond back didn't really feel like enough to clue in that it was a town benefit?

Also in regards to thinking Mish was town up until Midnight died, I hope you don't mind me doing this but I want to wait until after Ghost has answered, since I feel like she is copying mine to give off a buddy vibe. It's paranoia sure, but I have it prewritten, and the second she sends hers I will send mine.[DOUBLEPOST=1468276807][/DOUBLEPOST]gdi posts after me hold on

Or maybe you didn't think she was cop so we would be focusing on her? I mean, at the time we could have thought she was scum protecting her own scum, or we could have cop speculated. What if you were hoping she wouldn't answer so that ambiguity remained and those of us who thought scum would lynch her on her own?

 

It would have benefited the town even if the cop only had one read if they had died that night like I thought they would. We were on day 2 but we would have gotten 3 confirmations. The cop, the default town read and then the cop's read on night 1. Yes, it may have been early, but like I keep saying - I was convinced that the cop was about to be mafia-killed. It doesn't help that in most games that I've played which have featured a cop, they usually die before they can be effective.

Well, the rest of the town seem to think that his back-and-forth between Judge/Marushi confirmed his towniness. Why don't you vote for him? According to you, he is mafia along with Ghost and me.

I speculated that she might be scum protecting her own scum, but I came to the conclusion that they both weren't likely to be mafia. That was early on day 2. Everyone (including me) agreed that it was a bad idea to cop speculate after Cat's post. In fact, it was my reason for voting for her. I did hope Cal would answer, but I also told people NOT to vote for her as we could learn a lot from her, whether she was the cop or not.

So, who are you going to vote? Mixt, Ghost or me?

 

Hold up on the votes please, even as a scare tactic, things could blow up. Sorry if I'm bursting anybody's plans to entrap anybody else, but I really don't want to deal with votes atm, thanks.

 

It's fine. I'm not going to plant my vote yet.

I am going to vote for Mixt. Because while I do know all three of you are Mafia (Mixt, Mish, and Ghost), Mixt is the only person I have been pushing at with strong evidence. I could literally vote for any of you three, but Mixt is the only person I can reasonably point out to the confirmed townies that they are mafia. Ghost would have been my second choice. We are kind of stuck on each other and I don't know if I can convince the town that you are mafia yet. But right now, if you are a townie like you say you are, you must understand that you and I going back and forth between each other lets Mixt and Ghost back away.

Yes I know Mixt has a bit of an emergency going on, but he is still mafia.

 

But as a townie, wouldn't it benefit us to save the Mixt lynch for the next day phase, when he'll hopefully be able to talk more?

Also, you say you'd vote Mixt because there's more evidence, and that you're stuck on Ghost and can't convince people otherwise. Why is Mish your third choice, considering she's the one pushing at you so hard atm?

And woah woah woah, hold the phone, "If you are a townie like you say you are!?"

If Mish is a Townie?!

If Mish is a townie, you're Mafia.

Explain that statement, please.

 

I said it as a hypothetical. That's why there's an "if". She claims to be town, and I claim to be town, which is why I said it in that manner.

Mish isn't my third choice. I don't have a set ranking because I know all three of them are mafia. But from what I am getting from this conversation, Mish and I are stuck in a sort of 'prove they are mafia' type cycle. Since most of this conversation has been a back and forth between me proving Mish is mafia, and Mish proving I am mafia. Unless you guys have the definites, because you guys are the only confirmed because of Judge isn't that right? Vouching for myself doesn't prove my innocence.

But what good does it gain waiting for someone to speak at this point when we're stuck between four people? Mixt is mafia.

 

I would let the hypothetical slide if it were something like "If you were Town like you say you are, why did you do/say X?" The format was decidedly different. An appeal to her alleged towniness as an incentive to stop going after you so hard. "If you are a townie like you say you are, you must understand that you and I going back and forth between each other lets Mixt and Ghost back away." This is an appeal to her alleged towniness to coerce her into ceasing a behavior you don't want her to continue in.

And yes, Mish is your third choice. If you intend to get Mixt lynched today, he's your first; and then you say "Ghost would have been my second choice." That leaves Mish in spot #3.

The good that could come of waiting for Mixt to speak is firstly; If he's town, he'll be able to defend himself, and secondly; if he's Mafia, we can use what he says to hopefully extrapolate who his teammates are. To use a hypothetical, If you are town like you say you are, surely you can see how point number two is beneficial to town.

Besides, Mixt and Ghost both have said they are busy and will try to be back later tonight. What better time for you and Mish to try and prove the other is Mafia? The two of you are able to defend yourselves. If we used the time that you two are here to only focus on Mixt and Ghost, and the time that Mixt and Ghost are here to only focus on you and Mish, who might not be able to join us at that point, we'd get a whole lot of conjecture and no defense.

So please, keep going; why would you vote for Mish last of the three?[DOUBLEPOST=1468286158][/DOUBLEPOST]Cstar has one post to go. I believe that Cstar is most likely one of our Mafioso. We still have a lot of time to determine who the other two are. Cstar must post one more time. We'll see what she says.

 

About why @Marushi 's question on why I thought Mish was town before Midnight died. I didn't say I didn't suspect her, her posts just didn't stand out to me at the time and I was focused on Cal and Midnight who both had suspicions of each other before she was confirmed town. Which is why I defaulted to Midnight.

 

Actually, you did say that you didn't suspect her. Here's the quote, italicized for emphasis.

So did you find her suspicious or didn't you? If you didn't think she was suspicious, why not? If you do suspect her, please provide evidence as to how she's suspicious.[DOUBLEPOST=1468290321][/DOUBLEPOST]Sorry, I forgot that quotes italicize everything. XD But the statement is still there. XD

 

I didn't go back and look at the posts on the second one you quoted so I just put down what I thought I said. I went back to read the last two days on the first one you quoted.

 

...So what you're so saying is, instead of looking for evidence about Mish, you didn't even look at your own posts, only just vaguely tried to remember what It was you had said when you were asked to investigate?

 

But I did go back and look, just not at first.

 

Okay then... So now you know that you did claim that you didn't think Mish was suspicious until Midnight flipped Mafia. Why did Mish not seem suspicious to you? What about Mish made you think She was probably town?

Because Cstar has promised to paste a case of evidence as to why she thought Mish was town after you post, and I'd like to see what you both have to say on the matter.

I would also like to note that Cstar was online and active for at least an hour last night before I went to bed, and iirc, she had viewed this thread as well after my last post directed at her, yet she did not post.

 

I've been away for yesterday, but I've caught up. Now I'm going to tell you who is Mafia.

Cstar has obviously slipped up, and the fact that you can't see this clearly Marushi concerns me.

If Mish isn't Mafia, they are. This isn't a mistype, this isn't a hypothetical, this is a nervous mistake. This is not a Townie error, this is a Mafia error as they have now revealed their role. Cstar's coverup is hardly enough to make me change my mind, and it's like trying to put a Disney Princess bandaid over someone's stab wound! We need to capitize on this mistake!

Cstar is Mafia.

I explained my points on Ghost, and now Ghost is trying to cover up Cstar's mistakes, and now Ghost started slipping up while speaking to Marushi about Mish being Town.

Ghost is Mafia

I don't understand why you guys gave Mixt the benefit of the doubt! Not lynching him as a major mistake, no townie responses the way he responded in his post. Judge exposed him as Mafia right there, even if he didn't really know, but for some reason we all went blind.

MIXT IS MAFIA.

I'll admit that I was too busy following Marushi to develope my thoughts about that, but Marushi has also been wrong on almost everything this game.

Now I haven't exactly been perfected either, but I think the issue is is that we're all thinking about things way too complicatedly, like we're all masterminds or something. But we aren't. If anything I feel like we're even more stupid for trying THIS hard. The answer was right in front of us yesterday and we passed it by.

I went back to being less aggressive because of the suspicion on me, but now you all know I'm town I'm going back to how I was before. It didn't get me a lot much closer in the beginning but I think I've relearned something towards the end. I was too busy trying to play hard instead of playing smart, and under pressure I'm playing smart again. I'm taking more time instead of thinking about things too quickly, and I've thought about this a lot.

I think that Cstars confession just seals things here.

If we want to play smart, we need to lynch the three of them. Mixt, Ghost and Cstar.

If Cat and Marushi want a safe vote today, go for Cstar. I figured she was using the strategy of flying low like I had done when I first won as Mafia earlier, but I didn't go for it. I should have. But now that she's actually speaking we can see how nervous and anxious she is. And Ghost, maybe in her newest to the game is making it obvious she's trying to dig Cstar out of a hole.

If you aren't sure about Mixt, that's fine, I think upon thinking about it it's super stupid we didn't lynch him. But today lets do Cstar or Ghost, I think this is proof enough they're both solid targets. I don't think we should waste time going in circles like this. I think the answer is right in front of our face and we've been looking at this too complicated. I appreciate Marushi's dedication to what she's doing here and her plans but the complexity of how we're all making things make us totally slide over Mixt. But on the other side, thanks to her plan we got a good and solid answer from Cstar

I don't think we should hesitate. I know this is a stressful environment for us to be in but we have all the information we need to win the game. Any more over complication and I'm worried about our chances. We basically have two Mafia saying that they thought Mish was town, because she is. Again, they've slipped up.

I can expand on anything if you want Cat/Marushi but I think it's really clear. I really hope you can trust me enough on my analysis today to do this with me, but if you need more convincing I'll expand on all my evidence. If you don't that's great though lol, we're all on the same page.

I'm going to vote Cstar. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a nervous Mafia mistake, not a townie error.

##Vote: Cstar[DOUBLEPOST=1468337074][/DOUBLEPOST]I've been away for yesterday, but I've caught up. Now I'm going to tell you who is Mafia.

Cstar has obviously slipped up, and the fact that you can't see this clearly Marushi concerns me.

If Mish isn't Mafia, they are. This isn't a mistype, this isn't a hypothetical, this is a nervous mistake. This is not a Townie error, this is a Mafia error as they have now revealed their role. Cstar's coverup is hardly enough to make me change my mind, and it's like trying to put a Disney Princess bandaid over someone's stab wound! We need to capitize on this mistake!

Cstar is Mafia.

I explained my points on Ghost, and now Ghost is trying to cover up Cstar's mistakes, and now Ghost started slipping up while speaking to Marushi about Mish being Town.

Ghost is Mafia

I don't understand why you guys gave Mixt the benefit of the doubt! Not lynching him as a major mistake, no townie responses the way he responded in his post. Judge exposed him as Mafia right there, even if he didn't really know, but for some reason we all went blind.

MIXT IS MAFIA.

I'll admit that I was too busy following Marushi to develope my thoughts about that, but Marushi has also been wrong on almost everything this game.

Now I haven't exactly been perfected either, but I think the issue is is that we're all thinking about things way too complicatedly, like we're all masterminds or something. But we aren't. If anything I feel like we're even more stupid for trying THIS hard. The answer was right in front of us yesterday and we passed it by.

I went back to being less aggressive because of the suspicion on me, but now you all know I'm town I'm going back to how I was before. It didn't get me a lot much closer in the beginning but I think I've relearned something towards the end. I was too busy trying to play hard instead of playing smart, and under pressure I'm playing smart again. I'm taking more time instead of thinking about things too quickly, and I've thought about this a lot.

I think that Cstars confession just seals things here.

If we want to play smart, we need to lynch the three of them. Mixt, Ghost and Cstar.

If Cat and Marushi want a safe vote today, go for Cstar. I figured she was using the strategy of flying low like I had done when I first won as Mafia earlier, but I didn't go for it. I should have. But now that she's actually speaking we can see how nervous and anxious she is. And Ghost, maybe in her newest to the game is making it obvious she's trying to dig Cstar out of a hole.

If you aren't sure about Mixt, that's fine, I think upon thinking about it it's super stupid we didn't lynch him. But today lets do Cstar or Ghost, I think this is proof enough they're both solid targets. I don't think we should waste time going in circles like this. I think the answer is right in front of our face and we've been looking at this too complicated. I appreciate Marushi's dedication to what she's doing here and her plans but the complexity of how we're all making things make us totally slide over Mixt. But on the other side, thanks to her plan we got a good and solid answer from Cstar

I don't think we should hesitate. I know this is a stressful environment for us to be in but we have all the information we need to win the game. Any more over complication and I'm worried about our chances. We basically have two Mafia saying that they thought Mish was town, because she is. Again, they've slipped up.

I can expand on anything if you want Cat/Marushi but I think it's really clear. I really hope you can trust me enough on my analysis today to do this with me, but if you need more convincing I'll expand on all my evidence. If you don't that's great though lol, we're all on the same page.

I'm going to vote Cstar. There is no doubt in my mind that this is a nervous Mafia mistake, not a townie error.

##Vote: Cstar

 

I agree that Cstar is Mafia. Her mistake is an admission of guilt. The reason I was playing along was because Cstar has one more post, and I was hoping that she would either keep trying to convince us and mess up again, or just admit she was mafia and remove all doubt. The fact that she disappeared was further evidence that she was Mafia. We have Mafioso number one and I was going to say all this later today or tomorrow, after Cstar responded.

I agree that it would seem that Mish is innocent based on how hard she and Cstar have been going at each other... But there is also the possibility that Mish and Cstar are running a Double Bus, and were both of them trying to convince us that the other was town by coming against each other so hard. I don't think that this theory has been proven, but it is possible that they are both Mafia. I would even go so far as to say that it's likely. Of course, we will still be running around in circles, that's just the nature of the game. But with us perpetually at Lylo for the remainder of the game, we can't be too careful. Just because something is very likely doesn't mean it's absolutely correct. As long as something is possible we should not discount it completely.

It's 100% true that I'm almost always wrong, and I'll freely admit that you've been right more in some of your hunches. I'm okay with that. And I don't blame you for saying it, I'm glad to have someone hold me accountable like that. :) But we still have a full 35 hours left, and I'm just not sure that we should be voting yet, even though I completely agree that Cstar should be today's lynchee. Mixt hasn't been able to post any defense at all... And even if he is Mafia, having him talk could give us many clues as to whether Mish or Ghost is most likely to be the third member. Because a lot of people think that Ghost is the most suspicious, but I for one still find Mish to be highly suspicious as well.

But you are absolutely right that I could be wrong about Mish. It's completely and totally feasible that you're right and you have bagged all three of the Mafia. You have some good instinct... But until I have more evidence to support whether Mish or Ghost is the most likely to be Mafia, we will really mostly be guessing. And at this point, we can't afford to guess.[DOUBLEPOST=1468340273][/DOUBLEPOST]I'm sorry, correction time. I'm tired and haven't had my coffee yet and I was distracted by television. XD What I meant to say was that I believe Cstar is Mafia, but I'm still unsettled on the other three.

I personally believe that Mixt is the most likely to be town, but I also think that he's got every possibility of being Mafia. Because like I said earlier in this day, nobody unconfirmed seemed to be all that confused or surprised at Judge's fake reveal. There's every possibility that Mixt is Mafia, that's why I started out this day pointing out that everything is possible and encouraged everyone to look at all angles. Because Mixt could very well be Mafia.

The only one I'm sure about right now is Cstar.

 

The thing with Mixt is is that I think without Judge accidentally clearing him, we wouldn't have thought for a second he was town. I think Judge made a mistake himself. He was too trusting and for some reason, at least, from my view that move makes no sense at all. I think Mixt is the most GULITY if anything, Cstar included. Obviously he can't defend himself but he wasn't defending himself when he could either, he was going around in circles trying to play mind games with Judge, and for some reason it worked. He's never "defended" himself, he's just been avoiding his own defense by creating confusing hypothetical situations. I don't think we could justify Mixt's actions from a town angle, there is no reason for a Town member to give that sort of response.

I've read Mish's posts and they are by far the strongest out of the four. Why? Because she knows who the other Mafia members are since she is town.

Again, I think all the double bus stuff is making everything way too complicated. At this stage in the game I think we're getting way too wrapped up in things that don't matter. I think the double bus thing is a bit too elaborate at this moment. I say this because we have an entire games worth of evidence to go off of, and even if they were both doing that we would have other things that led us to the conclusion Mish was Mafia.

Say, for example, instead of obviously trying to dig Cstar out of a hole, Ghost also condemned her. Firstly that means we'd definitely lynch Cstar, which isn't preferable, but it wouldn't knock off Ghost as being Mafia at all, at least for me, because I was already convinced based off of her pervious actions before that happened. This doesn't make or break her case, her case is strong enough on its own to withstand that.

But Ghost did start digging to save Cstar from the deep hole which makes her even more guilty.

I hope that all makes sense.

What I'm saying is is that if Mish had been this vocal and this strong in her cases from the beginning we wouldnt be having this conversation. Not only that but Mish sniffed out two of the Mafia, Ghost and Cstar, before I did. One of them HAS to be on her scumteam if they are all Mafia, and sure the bussing and whatever else, but I think there's enough evidence to show she isn't just throwing them under a bus now, she's been on the hunt for most of the game, or at least the last few days. Mish has my full confidence, and that could be dangerous in this game, however I'm sure that my confidence has been placed with the town. It's a hard sell, and I know that, which is why I'm trying my best to find more reasons to condem and condone people's actions, but for Mish at this stage I don't think I have anything on her to make me think she would be Mafia.

 

I had hoped that maybe if I got away from the computer for several hours I would be calmer and be able to defend myself better. I got myself a little too emotionally invested in this game, and in that emotion I thought I wrote something clever, but I dug myself a bigger hole. I basically admitted my role without intention, and at this point, there really isn't a reason to defend it. I should have stuck to my strategy, but I started playing differently this game day. That was a horrible mistake, and gave me a lot more anxiety than it should have.

But here's my question before I leave things up to fate, are you certain you've got my partners right?

 

You make some good points about looking at everyone's actions from earlier in the game, especially regarding Mixt and Mish and their posts. I have a lot of work to do today again, and I'm currently on my phone and running errands around town, so I can't do any research right this moment to see if I agree with your stance that Mish has been taking a pro-town approach or not. But I am currently working on making a log of everything that has happened in this game, and hopefully that will help to clear up who is the most likely of Mish and Mixt to be mafia.

We're currently in a difficult position, because I believe Mixt has been the most town-like, while you believe that Mish is town. I'm willing to start completely over and look at both of their actions in a different light than I had viewed them previously, because you could be right, but this will take a little while, so please bear with me for the rest of this real-time day. The reason I'm trying to be so careful is BECAUSE I've been wrong so often.

And now I see Cstar's admission. I wonder who her question is posed at, considering I believe her partners to be Ghost and Mish and Cal believes her partners to be Ghost and Mixt.

So, I think that Cstar is just trying to make us all second guess ourselves, but since I for one am not sure either way, I shall venture to proceed with my plan, which is to compile and examine evidence on my own, regardless of what everyone else thinks I should believe.

 

Even with potential doubts/disagreements on who the other two mafia members are as of now, it's nice to know that we can still keep the game going for another day with cstar's confession.

We all seem to be in agreement when it comes to Ghost, but given her responses lately I'm definitely inclined to believe that Mish is more of a townie than Mixt. Admittedly, he's unable to defend himself the same way that she is, but she's doing SO much digging. It seems like way too much effort to put forth as a mafia member, even for the sake of blending in and trying to end the game here...

 

Good note about Mish, you both are right, she is acting very pro-town. I'll take that into my consideration. lol, you guys are probably right, I just want to be sure before I sign off on anything. XD But I'm glad that we have Cstar down as a definite. We have a good shot now. :)