Kingdom Hearts II Nobody, Heartless... A 3rd Being?

speaking of ansem reports, wouldnt kh2fm have some new reports maybe? if someone could translate them we would probably have more info on the 3rd being...;)

 

I'm pretty sure there isn't any new ones, but I could be wrong.

 

Well, i haven't really read through the Ansem Reports.. though I doubt there's much about Nobodies since his reports was more towards the Heartless yes?

Thus far, i only know that Yen Sid mentioned Nobodies are just "shell of the bodies" of the people who lost their hearts. "While Heartless rely on instincts, Nobodies can think and plan on a higher level" that somewhat Yen Sid says. So I can't really tell id the consciousness is in the Nobodies or that's a totally new conscious (from their originals) they're carrying.

BTW skellingtondan; Yep body, soul & heart.. i mean there are other "parts" like mind etc, just speculating what would be the next "installment" of the villains' main army.

 

Supposedly, when a person gives in to the darkness (that is to negative emotions), it fills his heart, to the point that the heart seperates from the body and becomes a Heartless, that is a mass of instincts and dark emotions, unable to think clearly, whose only purpose is to drag more hearts into darkness. When the Keyblade destroys a Heartless, the heart is released and joins Kingdom Hearts, where all hearts go after the body dies and the mind vanishes : Kingdom Hearts is a bit like paradise, when you're there the only thing that's left is a feeling of serenity and completion. The mind is gone.

Once the heart becomes a Heartless, the body and mind (meaning the intellect and the memories) form a Nobody, a being with a body and a conscience, but without a heart. It has no feelings, no morality, no emotions of its own, and more importantly is plagued with the knowledge that it has no heart, and that it is incomplete, leading a void of an existence. To be a Nobody is to lead a life not worth living, since there is no joy or happiness. The only thing a Nobody can feel is the absence of feeling.

Personnally I think if there is a third form of existence, it's associated with the Room of Awakening and with the fact that Axel may have "awakened" by touching Sora's heart, as Xemnas mentionned.

PS : some of you may say that yes, a Nobody can feel something, since Axel shed a tear when Roxas merged with Sora. I'll tell you that either he's the single exception and it's a sign of his awakening, or that though Nobodies cannot feel anything, they can remember the feelings they had when they were complete.

 

well if you look at the ansem reports about beings consisting of heart body and soul..
and you can see there's a pattern in the games..."heart"(less) (no)"body"
and im guessing that it might be the soul this time..
mabye "soul"(chaser) that would make sense to me..

 

yeah, that would make sense lordrevan44.

P.S. revan, let me guess. You named yourself after that starwars games whose name escapes me

 

yaa...everyone asks that though..annoying
and i think i know about the truth in kh3..
there were 4 chasers along time ago who unlocked the world's hearts
but then 2 turned to darkness and thats when the keyblade war started
after awhile one of them went back and they fought the other rebeling..
he had lost the battle and his memory
but ansem tryed to restore his memory..
and after kh2 he regained his memory and im not completely sure whats going to happen...but the nobody on the video "an old friend" is probably him and the armor is his old armor.. in the room that was locked away for some time...or he just didnt remember
well that might be true...dont ask where i found this..its a long story

 

yeah heard the same thing a bit ago, sorry but it's not true rev

P.S. sorry if I was annoying

 

why not? it seems almost true...i dont see how it cant be

 

no, that was made up by a fan, nothing has been released to prove that anyway

 

Hmmm I think Kanji's theory regarding the Room of Awakening is very unique and interesting. Thus (in relation to your theory), I think a Nobody is incomplete not only in "emotions" but also in "consciousness" or in "memory" and that might be the reason why Xemnas is searching for the Room of Awakening. While the rest is focused on only trying to get back their "feelings", it seems that Xemnas is after more than just Kingdom Hearts (as hinted in the new cutscene between Xigbar and Zexion).

OH! and I'm impressed by lordrevan44's guess to the next form, these soul(chasers) not a bad idea in fact. Yay more people expressing curiousity on the next army horde in Nomura's fantasy hahaha.

BTW alot of people are mentioning about the "Knight's Armour" in the Room of Sleep.. That's an interesting "Wild Card" that I do wanna know how to piece it into the creation of the 3rd Being or these Chasers. Anybody wanna try speculating?

 

Well in fact, Xemnas is a unique Nobody, because he's got Xehanort's mind and body, which also means he has his memories. And Xehanort's memories are in a mess, since he can't remember anything of his life before he was found by Ansem the Wise. While the other Nobodies only wanted hearts, he probably wanted only power, and maybe a way to retrieve his lost memories. Which is why he went so oftent to the Room of Sleep and talked with his "friend", because his past is linked to that of the Knights.

 

In conclusion, are you theorising that Xehanort is an exceptional strong Somebody that gave birth to not only a powerful Heartless but also to an unique Nobody (namely Xemnas) that is able to seek out it's past memories (through the Room of Awakening/Sleep) to fill complete?

Very intriguing a theory but I'm curious as how it relates to the speculation of a 3rd being. Are you hinting that the next being comes from those Rooms? Or is a further evolution of Nobodies if they find those Rooms? Seriously, I look forward to your answer, Kanji. The way you phrase about Heartless and Nobodies (in the posts before) is astounding, i really want to hear your thoughts on this. :p

 

First I have to warn, this is a very long post, but I think it's pretty damn interesting.

Xehanort was special, no mistake :
-Ansem the Wise says in his reports that Xehanort has a thirst for knowledge and a talent so great that they are almost frightening. He is talented at an inhuman level.

-when he gave in to the darkness, his Heartless remained an intelligent being, whereas all others, even Ansem's other apprentices, are mindless beings who act on instincts, like beasts. But his Heartless was intelligent and cunning, even retaining his memories, even though a Heartless is supposed to be only a heart : you need a mind to have memories. When you think about it, he's similar to Riku in that way : they both weild the power of darkness while keeping their mind and free will. Which means Xehanort's Heartless is really evil, because he's evil by choice, not because the darkness in his heart is too strong.

-his Nobody was exceptionally powerful, since he was the Superior of Organization XIII. Plus he was different from the others in terms of motivation : the other members of Organization XIII were more or less cold and ruthless, ready to do even the most vile things to achieve their purpose. But what was that purpose ? To have a heart, to be complete and to not be cold and ruthless anymore. Now let's look at Xemnas : apparently he had the classic bad-guy ambition of ruling the world. But he was also evil at the core, not because he lacked a heart : you've heard him saying things as "Anger and hate are supreme" and "There's no such thing as light". The others used darkness and light as tools, because they belonged to neither ; he preferred darkness, and by choice it's sure, since he couldn't be swayed by his heart.

So in the end, we have a guy who seems evil by choice and from the start, not because he lacks a heart to know good and evil, and not because he unknowingly let darkness take him. He chose to become a Heartless and a Nobody.

Now as for his lost memories, he seems bent on getting them back : Xehanort was wanted knowledge more than anything, his Heartless was searching for Kingdom Hearts and the truth of the universe (you remember his reports talking of a paradise dimension he searched ?), and his Nobody was experimenting on what he calls the "Awakening". He's always looking for some illumination, some ultimate knowledge.

If there is a fourth type a being (Somebody, Heartless, Nobody being the three first), I'm pretty sure it is those who have "awakened". And Xehanort's memory, and his past probably contain critical information about this other form of existence.

Now my guess is that this existence is that of a heart who has become able to exist on its own. Xehanort's Heartless did not have a body, but it could think like it had a mind, even though it was only a heart. Axel's possible "awakening" Xemnas speaks about is linked to Sora's heart. And Xemnas sought power from Kingdom Hearts.

Since Kingdom Hearts is a bit like heaven (you go there when you die), could this form of existence be linked to it, like a form of divinity ? Xemnas' final words were "Cursed Keyblade", which is a weapon that draws its power from the heart of its user. And didn't you ever wonder why Xemnas had an armor during some parts of the final battle ? Doesn't that remind you of a knight's armor ?

 

Wow I totally don't mind this long post at all. This is the type of juicy information is what I'm looking forward to. The theory is almost perfect giving the reader a gust of adrenaline running through his body. That and the fact that I love your Demyx signature and quote.

I did once ponder about the resemblance to a Knight's armour that Xemnas's True Form has and I do believe it plays a vital link to the next being. Sadly, i put it aside and didn't look upon it for sometime now until you mentioned it again. But it does add a spicy hint that Xehanort could possibly that "Knight" in the new trailer.

Anyways, you have proven how powerful Xehanort is (by 'giving birth' to a Heartless not solely ruled by instinct and a Nobody not solely intent on being able to feel), and thus you theorise that Xehanort is looking for a "Higher Being" than Nobodies / Heartless / Keybladers etc that is rare and "awakened" in some form.

This is truly an interesting theory (esp in relation to Sora). Firstly, as you've mentioned Axel has managed to "awaken" something in HIM (either Roxas or Sora it doesn't matter as it refers to the same person). Secondly, now that you mentioned it, Sora manage to "awaken" from his Heartless state and revert back to his "Somebody" form. With these 2 "awakenings", and the rumour going on about the Room of Awakening, one really wonders if in this Kingdom Hearts series, Sora will achieve some form of "true awakening" that Xehanort so frantically searches for.

However, how will he achieve it? Perhaps by going back into the Past and re-living the Keyblade War or perhaps by entering the Room of Awakening. Moreover, what will this Awakening do to a person who has Awaken from his Heartless and Nobody state? A new being? Such infinite possibilities it just gets me tingling with excitement!! What do you think?

P.S. Xehanort in a sense has achieved a "Dark Form" of "Awakening" where his Heartless overcame instinct while his Nobody overcame the need to feel by focusing on imaginary Anger and Hate, both driving themselves in search of something even though their original body is gone. Incredible, simply incredible!

 

I must say, that is wonderful thinking Kanji! A truly great post you have there!

Now you are surely right about Xehanort, his Heartless, and his Nobody. They were all seeking greater knowledge, one way or another. There is no doubt about that. Now for those who have "awakened", being the fourth type of being, very possible. It seems as if they have put much emphasis on "awakening" in Final Mix+. Xemnas searching for the "Room of Awakening". The room in which he did not build. Xigbar telling Zexion that perhaps this is where the other "Friend" is. This Room of Awakening will probably play a big part in the next story. Surely we will learn of its purpose.

 

Hey, question. How are we so sure Xemnas isn't saying "friend" in an evil way. Kinda like if you went past someone you don't like and you say 'hey, buddy.' in like this bad way or something.

You guys have any idea what I just said

 

To be honest no one knows for sure, he could be saying it either way.

 

First, thank you for the comments.

Second, about the "friend" word, I can see Xemnas meaning it in this sense...but I have an idea that might conciliate both versions.

In another thread, a very interesting theory was posted : maybe Baldy (being Xehanort) took over Larry's (the tall knight) body as his own, because he wanted a younger one. But something went wrong and Xehanort lost all his memories, probably because Larry resisted. Years later, Xemnas has recovered bits and pieces of his memory thanks to his experimenting, and talks with Aqua in the Room of Sleep : when he calls her "friend", it's both sincere and ironic, since he is Xehanort's mind in Larry's body.

Another theory would be that Larry (being Xehanort in this version) actually gave in to the darkness to defeat Baldy and became evil. That would explain why he has yellow eyes, just like Baldy, Xemnas, Xehanort's Heartless, Xigbar and Saïx. Those theories don't really belong in this thread anyway, but it's obvious there's something crucial about those yellow eyes.

Third, to extend on my theory about the fourth beings, a possible guess on the Chasers is that they are seekers of knowledge, who try to discover the ultimate form of existence and chase information or sources of wisdom. One of the first leads to this transcendence would be the Keyblade, which has always been presented as a marvelous weapon : it has the power to unlock or lock anything, including hearts (as we've seen with Dark Riku's keyblade in KH1), and potentials.

The Keyblade war could have been a battle between those Chasers who are all after the same thing, but are not willing to share such a power. The three knights may be different, since they are more or less supposed to be heroes. Baldy, on the other hand, will stop at nothing to transcend. In the secret ending, he seems to absord his keyblade's power and turn it into a ball of energy. This energy is then fired to the skies and reveals Kingdom Hearts, probably unlocking it.

The Chasers' knowledge, though not complete and not allowing them to transcend, was probably great enough to enable their hearts to exist on their own, keeping free will and conscience even without a body or a mind. It explains the fact that Xehanort's Heartless acted like he had still a mind.

If the theory of the posession is correct, that would explain how Larry can fight Sora in KH2FM, and how Xemnas can talk to Aqua. Somehow, even though Larry's body has been taken by Baldy, and even thought Aqua's body is dead, their heart, having awakened, have the power to exist on their own, to communicate with others, and to animate their armor (in Larry's case).

 

okay, first off Kanji. I self-proclaim you as King of Theories cause your actually make sense!!!!

I see nothing wrong with your theory at all, none!!!!! I'm starting to think if your Normura in disguise:D