Birth by Sleep Re-posted: Keyblades at all?

Okay, I do not think those things that everyone was wacking each other with were the same brand of keyblade as the Sora variety.

The reason for the short description is to weed out the people who are interested and those who are not. The ones who are interested will read a bit of the original thread.

http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=30872

Discuss.

 

I really don't know,I never thought about it...I'm sure they're probably a different kind of keyblade or something like that.

 

Well, Riku's keyblade in kingdom hearts didn't have a keychain. The one Sora used to let the hearts out and stuff. Maybe they created them or something...and why is it that Fenir dosn't have a keychain?

 

It's weird that they don't have keychains, but they're Keyblades all right:

1.) Nomura didn't give any hints on them not being Keyblades in any interview.
2.) The trailer summary and stuff said that VAT, MX, and his apprentice were all KEYBLADE masters/apprentices.
3.) They didn't do only what a lump of metal could do - they could do magic with them, could they not?
4.) Terra could summon his, so I'm sure everyone else could.

I guess the only explanation I can find is that you can shapeshift the Keyblade if it has no keychain like Terra did. But I don't know if that's even canon so...

 

i wouldnt agree about saying that the weapons TVA carry are not keyblades, but yes, i do believe they are not of the "Sora Variety." Theres probably something about them that makes them better than a "sora keyblade" or worse. But they CAN do magic with them, and they do seem to be "summonable" as Zeftnon said. I kind of believe keychains represent ranking. If you looked closely in the trailer I THINK MX had a keychain on his keyblade. Perhaps it could mean he was a true keyblade master?

Because of that theory above I'm assuming that the keyblades (since it measures the ability of someones hearts) DID NOTpick TVA and they were some people off the street who were lucky enough to get a keyblade. (Thats exagerated) whereas sora, managed to get a keyblade because it saw the light in his heart, and riku because it saw the twilight in his heart i guess...So maybe TVA got keyblades without the ability to change (the ability to add a keychain) because there hearts were not...powerful enough?

 

But no keyblade has ever broken before. Besides, Sora has been frozen. His keyblade was fine.

Sora does represent his heart with the keyblade using keychains. I discussed this in another topic with ICSP and Erkz. We agreed that a keychain was any old trinket that held memories of someone. (We also thought that the power would be proportional to the strength of the persons heart at the time of the memory) So according to this theory, the keychains do represent memories. (or people)

As for Terra morphing his keyblade... Well I think it might be a case of him just being a boss there, as he never did it in the cinematic I saw. Or it could be because it lacks a keychain. (or it could be complete control over the keyblade) I doubt it reflects his heart though, as his heart would not change that quickly. "Oh, my heart feels like a bike. Now it feels spinny," etc. More likely just an ability.

As for the keyblade's true form, that is the kingdom key. The description on it is "A keychain that draws out the keyblade's true form and power" Also, would the true form really shatter? I would expect it to be far stronger.

I noticed the Riku one lacking a chain. That is calculated into my theory as well. MX was the one who did all the work on keyblades. He made chainless ones, but then discovered chained ones. He only had time to construct a chainless one in KH. Or it could be that it did not morph to his memories, and was formed out of the Princesses hearts.

1.) I mean true keyblades, not not being called keyblades. Also, are there many Nomura interviews about BBS?
2.) DS and MX would be the masters, having a chained ones, TAV having the aprentice symbol, being the unchained. Also, where is this "trailer summary and stuff"?
3.) Fine. They differ from a lump of metal. Donald's staff looks to be made of wood. So I will assume they are wood. (Well, maybe not wood, but you get the point, right?
4.) Summoning... Well I suppose that counts. The org could summon their weapons too though, and I cannot remember who, but I thought some disney villains could too.

MX and DS had keychains. Yes. Adding to the idea that a difference was meant to exist. The chained ones looked far more powerful too. (you could argue that it is because of the wielder's power, but someone that strong would not have an inferior weapon, especially as there are millions of them around)

Magic is nothing special. Aerith can do it with her hands.

Also, they are not seen to do anything magical, in the keyblade sense.

TAV look strong enough to wield a chained one, I would say that their type of keyblade is only a sword. (maybe it also has the power to lock or unlock things, I do not know.)

 

1.) Two or three.
2.) Oh yeah, I didn't notice MX and the apprentices' keychains. I believe you can find the stuff in the News & Updates section a few pages back.
3.) Hmm... maybe certain materials in KH can produce magic?
4.) I dunno, seeing the pictures, the way Terra summons his looks more... Keyblade-ish. But that's just me.

 

your assuming too much. Sure, TVA are strong, but that doesnt mean the keyblade "likes them" or "trusts them." Thats like saying xemnas deserves a keyblade because hes strong. or malificent should get one. Remember, (hercules quote) its the strength of someone's heart. I was pointing out that maybe their hearts were only a little above average, so they got some sort of pseudo keyblades. That being said, the "millions of keyblades with keychains around" might not respond to TVA picking them up. Which is probably why they didnt go for them.

I think its pretty damn special...tidus cant do any magic...besides Aerith is a special type of person in both of the games shes in, which might give her the advantage of using magic. (kh2 and ff7)

Not sure what you mean by "keyblade sense" but Aqua's keyblade released a spell. And in scans you see terra using fire magic and ven using lightning.

I dont think its as weak as a sword. Why would it be? Swords cant cast magic...

 

A few things here. You misunderstood. I was talking about MX and DS. I was saying that I doubt that they would have the weaker weapons, as they were owning TVA, and there were millions of keychainless ones.
Another point, none of the keyblades in the battle had chains, apart from MX and DS.

It is possible that their hearts were only a little above average. I prefer the idea that the chaserblades (what I will call them from now on) were formed like normal swords, (perhaps with a tint of magic, whatever.)

Riku could use dark Firaga, the org could use spells of their element, Yen-sid and Merlin can use magic. Donald can, and so can Aerith. Sure, it seems to be a slightly rare gift. But it is nothing keyblade special.

I do not count this type of magic representing the chaserblade's power. It can be done with bare hands, or a stick.

By keyblade sense I mean light beams locking hearts of things.
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I dont think its as weak as a sword. Why would it be? Swords cant cast magic...[/QUOTE]

And yet hands can? Magic depend on the beholder. Sora could not cast magic with the keyblade at first, he had to be taught by donald. When he lost the keyblade, I think he could use magic with the wooden sword.

Another theory, the chaserblades are normal keyblades, yet they are only good for containing one memory/event. The keyblades are ones that can have keychains attached, and can draw out the true for with the kingdom chain.

 

...

Maybe if the keychain is taken off, they're able to control them easier, like the tornado of them that MX used. Only SOra can control more than one with the keychain. and Roxas, because they have more than one memory. The others don't, so they remove the keychain, and use multiple as MAsters.

 

good point, but u see thats the thing that gets me...sora has only 1 keyblade. (The kingdom key) yet his clothing gave him two...does that mean that two keychains are on one keyblade?

 

*Looks up chain on dictionary.com...*

The second definition is this:
A restraining or confining agent or force.

I think keychains limit the keyblades power. Case in point... looks what an unchained Keyblader fights like...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZuSe8Ymv3Q

Thats what an UNCHAINED KEYBLADE LOOKS LIKE WHEN ITS USED AS A WEAPON!

Ok... Sora does have a lot of flashing lights, like when he uses explosion, and gaurd breaker. His drive forms are unbelievably powerful. But you also got to remember, Sora is implied to have an extrodinarily strong heart. Meaning, his heart is the source of his power, wheras Terra seems to be more of a straight forward fighter.

But Terra even uses a Kamehameha in his bazooka form but Sora has nothing that powerful on his own, only when he combines his power with Riku during the final attack of KH2... but that was the power of two keyblade masters.


Perhaps when a Keyblade is used for evil, it becomes chained by darkness. Perhaps as a precaution, they chained all keyblades so it would not be missused by later generations.

 

... <.< You do realize, that Sora can knock back that so-called powerful attack with a wave of his keyblade, right?

Bah, anyway, my thoughts?

The keychain simply binds the keyblade to a fixed form and identity. Keychainless ones are able to be morphed at will by their wielders, I'm assuming. I'm guessing that, while driving, Sora attaches two keychains to his one blade at the same time, causing them to split into two different identities, but cutting it's strength in half by doing so. This is probably why Sora doesn't wield more than 2 keyblades. [Roxas's don't count. They pretty much wield themselves. On top of that, that whole battle was screwy.]

... I honestly don't know what to make of this whole keyblade/chaserblade situation.

... but, I'm willing to guess that the Keyblade Riku forged in KH1, and Terra/Aqua/Ven's keyblades are of the same type.

And also, I want to know what significance the armor holds. It might be a power granted by their keyblades.

 

considering ,that the events of BBS take place 10 years earlier, perhaps keychains were rare at that time? , i doubt keychains make a difference for the better considering that kairi used a keyblade ,with keychain, perhaps keyblade's without keychains are just prototypes and memories couln't or were not discovered to make keychains except for some individuals, you see im not sure ven is completely human, and perhaps because off that he or they(vat) cannot wield keychains,

oh'

erks, the armor might be like a drive form ...well sora has some right , then perhaps they can too,

 

Thank you Erkz, and ICSP.

But ICSP, you never explained something. The victors of that battle were clearly the DS and MX. Why would they not have the stronger weapon? Especially if the weapon was lying around.

Also, could it be that Sora's chained keyblade is because of a strong heart?

One problem I have is the "Draws out the keyblade's true form and power" description on the kingdom keychain. By true form, I assume it means the default form.

Also, you never see Terra use any of his attacks like that in the trailer. You would think that if it were so uber, he would use it, right?

As for what Erkz said, I disagree about the splitting of the keyblade weakening it. It never seems to be weaker in-game. I just think it would draw on the heart's energy more, so the drain would be noticable.

Okay, the main points brought up so far:
The Chaserblade mutates. (has not been seen outside lingering spirit)
The Chaserblade smashes. (could be because of the magic.)
The Chaserblade does not have a keychain, so is limited to one form.
The Keyblade has a keychain that says "Draws out the keyblade's true form and power"
The Keyblade's changes are more spritual. The chaserblades are more physical. (The form is seen only using the components of a chaserblade in the lingering spirit battle, Sora's blade splits into two whole blades)
The Chaserblade may be linked to the chaser armour.

Any others? When we have a nice long list, we will each go through and interpret them. Then we can decide based on everyone's opinion what the chaserblade really is.

Okay? By the way, ICSP, I brought you here for a discussion, and theorizing, not war.

 

going about this the wrong way...?

Maybe we cant really compare the two. After all TVA are heroes of BBS there is no way they would weild such a weak weapon as pika suggests...for very long anyway. I have a feeling, just like there is more than one type of keyblade, their is more than one type of keyblade user.

Compared to the keyblade, the "chaserblade" looks weaker, but thats only because we've seen what the keyblade has done. Imagine starting kh1 with a chaserblade rather than a keyblade. With the little we've seen, we would just assume the chaserblade is stronger.

I believe that both keychain and chainless keyblades have their pros and cons, but they're pretty much equal. It seems as though the keyblade is more of a "magical" type of keyblade , whereas the chaserblade is more of a physical type, (even though both have physical attacks and use magic, they each lean towards one side). We also have not seen what a chaserblade can do, besides Terra's or (lingering spirit we assume is terra) non-canon boss fight and the BBS trailer. I know people would hate me because of saying this, but we might need to wait a little longer on the "which is stronger: keyblade or chaserblade debate"

 

ummm, did you read what i posted, i know it looks kinda messed up..but thats just because i was using my wii,

but, really ,read it please , i think i make some sense......as erks said the armor, i think its some sort of drive form(wich will probably have another name, but the same purpose) ,and wait i think the armor has something to do with the thing they have attached to their arms,

but, i think in one of the trailers terra says that he wants to know the thruth about the keyblade, impliying that perhaps the things they have are not considered a keyblade or atleast not a complete one