The Government is shutting down for a little big guys

Still didn't affect me or anyone here. It's meaningless to discuss it at such length, with such passion and negativity.

On the counter side, a lot of people are being paid during this.

 

But it does affect people that work for the government, such as postal services.

 

Who are still delivering and getting paid, along with the po-po, and other services

We could be any government body and these will all work fine. So I could still care less

 

Then I guess this is pointless...?

 

From what I've read, the postal service is unaffected since they are self funded.

 

Man this democratic republic thing is pretty great.

 

And this is the mentality that has caused this entire mess.

Guess what everyone?
You are a member of the human race.
You live in a country with other citizens.
Even if something doesn't directly affect you, that doesn't mean it's not worth caring about. If you are lucky enough to not have to worry about not having a job to go to tomorrow (and thus, no paycheck), you're pretty damn lucky. You're also pretty lucky if you don't know anyone affected. But if this shutdown continues for more than a couple days, you're sure as hell going to get hit. At the best, things like gas prices are going to go up. If this continues for an extended period of time? We default on our loans to countries like Japan and China (both of whom have some kind of government involvement in health care, by the way).

And then you're going to feel pretty stupid that you looked at this whole thing as "meh, no biggie, doesn't affect me." You're an American citizen. You better believe it affects you. Indifference is one of the greatest crimes someone can commit. If you don't care about the people suffering from this, then at least give two shits for your own neck. because it will come around and hurt everyone.

People fought and died so that you could have a somewhat democratic nation. Flawed as it is, it's a disgrace to squander the voice and power you have in this world.


If anyone isn't too sure about Obamacare and wants to get up to date, I highly recommend reading some of Paul Krugman's blog posts about it. Specifically:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/obamacare-is-the-rights-worst-nightmare/
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/obamacare-doublethink/?_r=0

 

I really don't like how you're generalizing Republicans like that when it's just the conservative ones who do that. As far as I'm concerned, being poor is punishment enough for not being able to find a good job. I do have problems with the AHA, but that's not one of them. My problem is that it should be focused more on helping the poor to get healthcare than punishing the non-poor for not wanting it. Why not simply put taxes toward it? The fine for not having healthcare should be going toward making healthcare cheaper anyway, so what's the difference between that and raising taxes besides the fact that people will get all up in arms with the whole "No new taxes!" thing? I'd much rather have more money taken out of my paycheck every two weeks than have to pay a fine because healthcare doesn't fit into my personal budget.

 

The Republican party is responsible for this shutdown right now; that is, the Republican party's elected representatives. If you are a Republican and are not okay with their behavior right now, by all means say something and we'll go from there, but everyone who voted for these people (or even didn't vote against them), imo, is partly responsible.

Are you really advocating 'punishing' people for something that is, quite possibly, outside of their control?

In my experience--which I consider nearly firsthand, because my mom was recently unemployed for quite some time, and I've been poor for the better part of my life--us grossie poors aren't these lazy moochers they make us out to be. Unemployed people don't like being unemployed. If they could find a job, they would take it. Should they be deprived of something as basic as health care for that reason?

It is.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/healthcarereform/a/Obamacare-Taxes.htm

If you're too lazy to read that, basically:
POOR PEOPLE WILL NOT BE PUNISHED FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE.
THE TAX YOU INCUR FOR NOT HAVING HEALTH INSURANCE WILL BE NO MORE THAN THE CHEAPEST HEALTH INSURANCE. So you can choose to waste your money on the tax or get some goddamn health insurance. Your choice.

Obamacare, like nearly all governmental services, is funded by taxes. It provides Affordable Care (hence, you know, the name) through taxation. Those who are below a certain level of income won't really feel much of a change in their taxes (and, if they do, it will be offset by their now more affordable health insurance). The rich pony up more taxes because they can afford it. Like all taxes in this country are/should be (isn't true in practice but that's a different tangent).

 

so is weed legal now?

 

Just want to add this quote from CBS news:

 

Hey guys affordable health insurance is a good idea if you haven't figured it out.

 

shock & horror

??? healing people
rich country
helping its people??????????????????????????? wha???????????t

 

This is probably where we disagree on this matter. The way I see it, the shutdown wasn't caused by the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, but rather the fact that they are so opposed to each other that they can't get anything done. If the Republicans were willing to listen to whatever compromises the Democrats had in mind and the Democrats were willing to acknowledge the Republicans' valid arguments against AHA while still shooting down their bad arguments, we wouldn't be in this mess. Like I said before, this outcome was a team effort.

I am not a Republican. I thought I had made it pretty clear that I hate both of the current major political parties, but that's my fault for not making enough passive-aggressive remarks about them. If anything, I best fit into the Democratic-Republican Party, which no longer exists. The federal government needs to be a lot weaker than it is now. Stronger than it was under the Articles of Confederation, but only slightly so.

We also differ here. The reason why I only ever vote on the issues is so I can't be held responsible for any of the mistakes the idiots on every side of the political nonagon will inevitably make. It also means that I can't complain about their mistakes, but I'm fine with that. If there were a way to actually vote against a candidate without voting for another one, I'd do so in a heartbeat. It probably wouldn't be that hard to implement either. Set it up so I can vote "No," for everyone in a given category unless I vote "Yes" on one of them, in which case all the "No" options would be greyed out.

I'm not advocating punishing people for being unemployed. I'm saying that being unemployed is its own punishment. I hate being unemployed and, at least to me, it feels very much like I'm being punished for not being good enough for any of the tens of places that I've applied to. To restate: Unemployment is its own punishment.

I didn't say that. I said that people who can afford health insurance will be punished for not wanting to buy it. Also, why are we yelling? Is this a game? Because I can totes yell louder than you.

I shouldn't have that choice, though. I should have the choice of having some goddamn health insurance or not having some goddamn health insurance. I understand that AHA is a tax-funded program, but what is the purpose of having a fine that will probably also go into the program? Why not just allocate more taxes to the program? I'm going to get my own health insurance when I can afford it, but why should a person be punished for wanting to risk not being able to pay for hospital bills? Isn't getting seriously hurt and being plunged into crushing debt punishment enough for being too stupid to buy health insurance even though one can afford it? My problem is not with the program, but with how it seems to work.

 

...

 

Fun fact! More than one of those Republicans still voted for the shutdown, even while bad mouthing Cruz to the press, since it's easier to throw him under the bus because he won't go up for re-election till 2018, iirc.

 

Remember that vid I PMed you a while back ? I' ll post it here for the sake of clarity.

Basically right now they' re not the only ones punished for their stupidity, everyone is. Someone has to actually pay their insane bills right away, but since money doesn' t grow on trees hospitals suck it up and raise their prices for everyone else. With Obamacare those morrons would be the only ones being "punished" for their stupidity, seems a hell of a lot better to me than allowing hospitals to just kick them out.

 

Republican is conservatism. Conservatism inherently believes and promotes capitalist policies, which is rounded up in the simple statement 'Rich stay rich, poor stay poor.'

Quick American History lesson...
Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican President, allowed the emergence of Republican ideals into figures like Vanderbilt, Rockefeller, Carnegie, J.P. Morgan and Ford, all industrialist and all considered some of the wealthiest men in history. They exploited their monopoly, the lack of competition from other businesses and their lack of worker's rights or healthcare that allowed them to incur minor costs and exploit business agreements, letting them build up such sums of money. It led to Unionisation and worker's fight against exploitation and safety in the workplace, and they voted for Democratic parties because they offered the more liberal, 'communist' policies of helping the downtrodden, which the Republicans also eventually pushed for when their votes were lagging behind. The two parties have been at opposite ends of the political scale since then.

In essence, Republicans have rarely looked out for their fellow man, unless it's a middle class man earning $50,000+ with a devoted, stay at home wife who can afford it. Their policies are centred around big business and making more money for the select few who can instead of for the country as a whole.

Government healthcare is the 21st century for the developed world, America is very backwards in this way, where even countries less developed or with less GDP on average still give their people access to free healthcare of some kind. Obama is not wrong to push this forward, and has every right to be appalled at the rich Republicans of America thinking they can shut down the government when they want to. It's disrespectful, and not to mention and exploitation of power against its own citizens to ransom the country till they get their way.

Quick UK history lesson.... really quick...
Over here in the UK, mining was in decline and the industry across the country protested constantly for pay rises and stopped mining coal to power Britain basically until their demands were met, much like what the Republicans have done. Difference was, over here, the strike lasted YEAR not a day. Our economy ****ed right up because we had almost no power for weeks or even months in some areas, because we had no coal to power anything, my parents were living by candlelight for like a week and this was in 1984 (hmm, wonder if Orwell propaganda caused further anti-government ideals). Anyway, our Prime Minister at the time, Margaret Thatcher, instead of giving in, imported coal from abroad and closed coal mines down to cut the costs they were incurring the government. In the end, the coal miners couldn't live on earning nothing and gave up, submitting to government pressure and effectively ending the coal mining business. They killed themselves. If an entire government body does this in America.... **** get the guns and into the fallout shelter, riots on the streets.

So spam zone. Penis. Ahh the tension has lessened.

 

'Murica .