The Ten Commandments in Schools

Since we are on the Christian debate lately, I thought I'd bring up something that annoys me to no end. It is bad enough to me that some Court houses in the south have the 10 Commandments outside of the buildings, but when someone wants to put them in public schools for kids, that's where I draw the line.

The reasons to me are clear, and to a Christian, I would think they would be too, but fundamentalists won't see it that way. I'll explain the point of view below and I welcome opinions on why someone might think either way.

The 10 Commandments:

Well, I want this in a school with kids of all sorts of cultural diversity! Basically this is saying that you can't believe in anyone else above God. The punishments for it were also quite strict and found in the Bible.

This is unjustified and against our very constitution which allows Freedom of Religion. It also encourages a reason for some kids to bully others, mistreat them and low and behold if one was an uber Bible-thumper...it gives permission to kill.

This is a good one. So all the people who wear crosses, fishes, have pictures of Jesus or sculptures, paintings of heaven scenarios etc are sinners. So why are true Christians wandering around with this stuff? Also, this was used as an excuse to deal with a golden sculpture of a cow...so apparently having any symbolism of any other religion is also bad.

I think this one harms everyone in school and the country, doesn't it?

Well, shucky darn, gosh darn it! So no one should ever say anything of the Lord's name in vain or...

I don't know about others, but I really find it inappropriate to fill my kid's head with the thoughts of eternal damnation, killing etc all for a slip of the tongue. I'd rather my kid be in school learning the critical thing called 'education' rather than fearing what they hear and getting mad at others who do something like that.

Seems such a fine thing for a Christian to remember. Of course again, we aren't all Christian. Some of us don't care about a holy day to a deity we disbelieve in. If Christians want to recognize it, fine.

Once again, death is mentioned. Do you know how many kids will fear working on a Sunday because it is supposed to be so important but yet MANY Americans do that and it is required in some jobs? The Bible doesn't match up with what is really demanding from businesses today, but I don't see people being allowed to kill others for this violation.

This one looks innocent enough. Of course you want to respect your parents. They brought you to life, take care of you, feed you, clothe you etc. However, what happens if say the parents are abusive and some kid cusses him or her out? What happens if a kid needs to get away?

Well, there's that death threat again. I know just off this one I'm probably going to hell because I fought to be free of a very abusive and insane mother. Oh well.

Murder in the Bible is considered to be a heinous crime. However, killing in the name of God is not. Any death not condoned by God is murder. The Bible is laced with 'killing' in the name of God. However, Cain murdered his brother Abel. See the difference? Due to the fact the other Commandments seem to say the threat of death often, I don't think I want kids to learn it's okay to kill someone for not believing in God or wearing a cross etc, but it's wrong to kill someone for being a bully, as long as they are Christian. Mixed messages.

These are kids. It's fine to say to a kid, you shouldn't cheat on a spouse later on in life when he or she is married, but why are elementary kids caring about this at all? Now say a kid does know a parent or uncle or aunt or older person doing the naughty deed?

Egads, killing, yet again! Why are Christian fundies so worried about video games and violent music etc when everything that is said in the very 10 Commandments and throughout the Bible is an excuse to KILL someone?

This is a good one to put up. Sure, it's not nice that someone goes around stealing and that happens in school all too often. The punishment for stealing was often losing the offending limb but also...

Well, this one isn't so bad since all it's saying is you will never make it into Heaven. Of course again, for those who aren't Christian, why would they care?

This implies you should not lie, basically. If asked something, you should be honest. However, this has gone so far to say that if you think a 'false thought' you can condemn yourself to Hell. All in all, to tell the truth is a great thing but again, punishments for it were death, especially under oath. Mainly though it was this:

Which is found in Deuteronomy as well as Exodus. So what it's saying is that you should not set up someone for a fall and lie to get that person in trouble. It's not telling someone he or she can't lie about other stuff. Just don't screw someone else over with a lie and false story.

I place both of these together since in some Christian groups they are separated and in others, together. Now, why does a kid care about someone's wife? Kids are going to school to learn. Most aren't thinking about being envious over someone else's wife. They'd rather if they are of age, look at the girls around them. Seems fine that adults out of school can look at these nubile precious kids and yet there has to be protection for some man's wife and property.

This is the whole meaning of what was implied here. You are not supposed to desire that which another man has. This is somewhat outdated anymore as most of the time we can just go get something at the store a friend might have that we want, such as a video game etc. However, apparently you shouldn't even be thinking that. In the end though, this one is not so bad either. However, the punishment for jealousy/envy and a desire for something someone else owns was death too.

Lastly, some will debate some of these I have placed in here are from the Old Testament, though I posted a few New Testament ones too. However, here's what Jesus had to say on the 10 Commandments.

No one to me deserves the right to say who has a choice to live or die unless that person is an actual harm to others as in killing someone else or raping. Rapists aren't even put on death row.

There's my argument why I think the 10 Commandments should NEVER be posted in public schools. I can't complain about Christian schools, because the schools are focused on Christians teaching Christians. It's not my place to make such a judgment call. However, public schools are for anyone to go to and with that in mind, these Commandments have no place on walls.

I had an idea sometime ago that perhaps if Christians wanted to do that so badly, why don't they offer up to also post other religious beliefs like the Buddhist 8-Fold Path or the Hindu Dharma but of course, this idea was always shut down. The reason why is clear, because nothing else is going to stand up to the 10 Commandments, which tells people to follow them or you will die. Others just don't cut it with all that said. My apologies for the long post but eh, I was long winded and wanted to get the thoughts out there as I saw them.

 

I have always believed that if a school is run by the state then it should be as neutral as possible. If it has to be politically neutral, why shouldn't it be religiously neutral? I think that force feeding children religion is wrong as how are they supposed to make an unbiased and informed decision on what faith they want to follow? Also, if religion is going to be taught ALL religions should be mentioned, otherwise it is biased and therefore unfair.

 

Somehow, I doubt strongly that they will ever do this anyway. Maybe in Christian schools but certainly not state schools.

The day I actually see some people take the 10Cs without offense I'll cry 'Hallelujah!!'. There is no way they would ever allow this.

And please, let's not shovel the blame on Christain's here as we always do. Christainity is not the only faith which uses the 10Cs.

As for 10Cs outside court bulidings, well that's just traditional I guess. Many court buildings are centuries old. Just like the whole oath thing. But I predict that within a few years these shall be gone. After all, people are getting so offended by them. I think the 10Cs where put there tradtionally since a lot of the laws were based upon the 10 commandments in the first place. So what is the harm in having them there? Are traditional Christain-based things gonna be plucked out just because they offend people? :sideways:

 

Yeah, well, I go to catholic school, and I don't believe in God anymore. They pressured me to much and everything is death. If a 12-year-old has better words of wisdom than God, than who is the true justice? They don't even allow you to show you are a proud catholic, apparently? Here is what I follow, and what I will always follow opposed to death for every wrong act commited.

You're being stupid, just as bad as the person of whom comitted such a horrible act. Should we not have hearts to forgive? Thats what kindness is isn't it? No matter how you put it, murder, is not Justice. Kindness is, even if this world has changed, and there is no such thing as Hand-In-Hand love, I will make that change. I will make sure kindness gets to everyone, my options will not change even though God will say I deserve to be tortured to death, my options will not turn against me! I won't back down, even if I'm sent to Hell, I know I will not die in vain.

Actually, I made that up. I will die knowing it was not in vain. The Commandments are wrong, we shall not be put to death for small mistakes. I take no friend whom mercissly takes another's life, for money, fun, or because they hate them. There is no right to kill them unless they themselves try to kill you.

 

I am a christian but i say that in apublic school where people of many religions and backgrounds come together they should not have those commandments.
I follow them but one thing makes me sayno to them in public school. its public. that means we shouldnt force a religion on some one. In a private school you can do that because its private. the owners can choose who to let in and what to put. if you dont like it there go public.

 

The 10 commandments always bugged the **** outta me.

IMO, they're all completely bull****ted and contradicting.

Watch this video for comedic reference.

Or this one.

On a side note, I think everything regarding religion vs. 10 commandments is a giant hypocritic, political scheme. Even in religion we still see people lied to, not just the government.

 

Damn it. xD

Oh well.

 

No they weren't. EVERY civilization even before writing has had rules like "Don't kill" or "Don't steal." It's human nature.

No, because America is not based on Christianity.

 

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

The harm, if you think about it is because it is hypocritical if you think about it. The 10 Commandments in their cute abbreviated version are posted outside of court houses when court houses represent OUR legal system which does NOT follow it if you think about it.

People steal - what happens? They go to jail and/or pay a fine.
People lie - what happens? They go to jail and/or pay a fine.
People rape, abuse, beat on each other, burglarize, commit adultery - they do not get the death sentence. Adultery won't even get you in jail at all. It's just an assistant when it comes as a reason to getting a divorce.

The only thing someone can really do to get the death sentence is kill. We've had nut jobs kill 'in the name of God' and they still did the crime and may or may not get a death sentence based on which state they are in and if there is even a death row there.

So that is why to me it is hypocritical. It should not be posted since it is not being even adhered to or followed as 'God willed' for the monotheistic religions. If I post rules at a work place, school, etc I'd expect those rules to be adhered to. Our courts to me look laughable by putting the 10 Commandments there for that reason more so than any actual 'religious' debate.

 

(I'm probably not the best person to comment on this, but I'll make the best of it.)

The main beef with rules from so long ago is that THEY do not change, but rather the people around them that interprets them changes. Another thing to consider from the 10C is that they were written in a time where not everyone was literate, which of course meant passing the 'word' by voice and whatnot. People also weren't that terrible techincal. We humans have a tendency to manipulate rules in our favor whenever possible by playing on the ignorance of others.

Now as for the current day 10C.....course its a load of BS, it should be abolished from anywhere that is publically part of the community except from maybe the "happy homes of fundies" (because really people should all be allowed their cup of tea as long as they are harmless).

And then there is of course the (one of my favorites actually) possibility that whoever "wrote" the bible was not a very logical person or group of people, whichever. -I would name examples but I'm sure someone would be offended, and we can't have that (FOR FEAR OF DEATH).

Lastly, as you already know, but I'll state it anyway...its "unconstitutional" for any public school to publically "favor" or try to lean kids into any religion. Course that works better on paper then it does in practice. :\

 

No, not 'EVERY' civilization did one bit in some you did what you need to survive and that was that, whether you stole, killed or sacrificed to get it. And before I get my head bitten off, no I am not implying that nations without the 10Cs were primative/barbaric or anything not even the nations with them followed them properly and they all had their fair share of atrious acts.

America?? Huh? I wasn't even talking about America (or is it the US?) I was talking about the UK where I live, which is a nation traditionally based on Christianity. And, so the laws where based on the 10Cs. Wow, some Americans sure do seem to hate Christians, or all religion come to think of it. They'd sooner burn down the schools than have the 10Cs on them so your worries are over.

Hmmmm, yeah America is not traditionally Christian. A nation all about the people right? All the more reason why they ain't gonna stick the 10Cs outside no school building. So no probs. It wouldn't even happen in my country let alone yours.

And for the last time every one, the 10Cs are not exclusively the Christians so stop blaming it on them. Oh, but wait, of course its the Christians' faults. Those bloodythirsty-judgemental-corrupt-loons. Tell 'em where to shove them evil evil evil evil commandments? Right?

The only thing 'comedic' about this is you.

I assume you are atheist, no?

Well then why should the 10 commandments even concern you? Bug the [offensive slander] out of you? But wait a minute, God doesn't even exist, right?

What harm can the 10Cs stuck outside a building do if God doesn't even exist? None. If we all fall into an etenity dark emptyness when we die anyway, no praises for good things and no punishment for the bad. Zilch.

So why is everyone getting so wound up over nothing anyway? It will never happen. Christians are more likely to be snipered off one by one than that. Now that wouldn't surprise me at all.

PS Oh no it's you of all the people DW I never even realised don't ban me I know I keep on stepping on your toes :-(

Death sentence?? Woah, I can't believe that. And they go on about the Bible having an 'eye for a eye' well lemme tell ya is that not what your legal system has too and yet they say 'don't murder' (of course killing is illegal in the US), yes? So now someone step forward and admit how the justice system is hypocritical as well.

OK, look let me introduce a key figure in Christianity: who else but Jesus Christ. Christians (are meant to) follow his teachings above all: Duh. And sorry to be a biblebasher (any other names you want to call me guys? It's so fun to poke the stick at Christians. Come on, roll up, roll up!) but Jesus said that an eye for a eye was 'BS' as you might put it. So please don't make us out to be monsters all of the time.

Unless you happen to work in a church or in Vatican City Repliku the 10 commandments will not be put up let alone followed.

 

Well, most did. If they did not, the family of the victim would kill the murderer out of anger. Egypt, ofcourse is the oldest living country, and they've always had rules like that.

Morals are necessary for social animals to survive.

My bad. :P Didn't think of that. I do agree however, the UK was originally based on the Commandments, except a few (in the Middle Ages, they must have thought "Thou shalt not kill" meant "Thou shalt not kill, unless the victim believes in a different God than you").

WHOAH! WHOAH! WHOAH! DON'T HIT BELOW THE BELT MAN! I have NEVER claimed that I hate ANY religion, AT ALL. I have a lot of respect for people with religion.

And, most secular humanists would NEVER stoop to acts of violence like that.

The reason that I do not want the 10C's in school in the US, is because it was not based on the 10C's. If it was, #1 on the 10C's when violated when they wrote the first Ammendment.

The evangelical power is growing here.

Last time I checked, it is only the Christians who are trying to force their religion here in America (without violence, anyway).

BTW, I am not judgemental. However, you may be judgemental, for you assumed that I hate Christians. I only dislike it when SOME (I am capitalizing it to emphasize the amount. Not accusing) Christians try to force their religion above others.

It concerns him because people are trying to put the 10C's in schools, where they DO NOT belong.

 

You don't believe in God....

Even if you're sent to Hell....

Were's the sense in that? No God. No Hell. In that case you have nothing to worry about. So why the rant, eh?

You go on as if somewhere you do believe there is a God but hey he hates me and I hate him, something is making you bitter....

No God doesn't hate you. And no the world is not against you.

Yes it is your choice alone to believe what you want but if God doesn't exist why the anger? Over something, which isn't even there.

Yeah 'many' is more like it not 'EVERY'.

I only said the laws were based on the 10Cs, not they are the 10Cs.

I'm sorry if I'm going below the belt or whatever but you do have a funny way of showing your respect for religion what with yout siggies and all if you do truly respect us why not leave it be? After all, there is no God in your mind so why even bother? No, I wasn't been judgemental it seems to be everyone else who has this terrible problem with anything and everything that the Christians say and in all truth, God forgive me, but I am getting very fed up with it: hence the mile-long rant. Not exactly WWJD but I never came along and said I was perfect. Do people think we are snobs or something???

Acts of violence like what? Yes in the olden days Christian may have been riding around with swords and scattering gunpowder here are there but lets step forwards to the 21st century. The Christians are no more violent than the secular section so I won't have that.

As I keep repeating in parrot-fashion, the 10Cs will never make their way into your schools. Certainly not the state schools.

Evangelical Christianity spreading? Maybe, one section of the Christians is spreading but what about the rest? There are more Atheists than ever, the world is more 'ungodly' as we BBs say than ever. Just because you were baptised as a baby at 3 months or went to Sunday school from the age of 10-14 doesn't make your a Christain. The stats are a far cry from reality

Oh wow, now the Christians are going for World Domination. 'EVERY' religion seeks to spread, Christian or not. Just because one is spreading quicker than the other doesn't mean that one happens to the be one with the leaders riding in army tanks and planning how be rid of sinners from the face of the Earth.

In my country A FEW people want Shirah law enforcing. Do I march around blowing the trumpet and bad mouthing all Muslims and taking the mick with witless youtube parodies?? No. I simply step aside and don't add fuel to the fire. Because I know and you know it will never happen. The end.

 

I never said the world is against me. Even if I'm sent to Hell? Well, I'm twelve, and I could be wrong when I say their is no God, which means I can still be sent to Hell. God, I think can just be a force of nature, not an old guy or a young guy.

By the looks of it God gets angry at people for small things. They way the Catholic School's treat me, the way the Church treats me and how they act. If there was a God whom made Commandments, shouldn't he be able to stop what has happened in the past? It would've saved a lot of Jews if God did exist in WWII. Or thousands of Black People when there was Slavery.

If he created earth, why can't he stop a war? Why would he leave it up to Humans to "control" the world? The way we act, makes us lower than low.

The way things have gone so far, makes a wall seem more responsible than us. I think I have some good reasons not to forgive "God". He's put terrible people on earth, if he does exist then. I have a good reason to be bitter towards him.

He should be allowed to control people, because he supposedly put us on earth. He gave the commandments? Why would he give commandements if he has enough power to tell a person what to do? If he's able to send someone in a dream to tell that person what to do. Anyway's there isn't anything in history that has proof thhat most of that stuff that God did existed. Except the commandments but they don't know another person could've just wrote that down?
Sorry, I got off-topic but I just get carried away.

 

The main problem is that not everyone in any one county is of a certain religion so putting up things like the 10C outside public schools and courtrooms is technically discrimination against all other faiths (and non-faiths).

As for my problems with the Church, I think that it is wrong to try and convert people actively, it doesn't address it's violent and sometimes bloody past (a lot of which has been supressed if the Church didn't agree with it), religion is used as a reason for people to do what they want (and I'm not saying all) and there are very few (if any >_>) true followers of any faith, making most hypocrites.

As for God not helping, to me that means God is uncaring/indifferent/cruel/not everywhere at once/not all powerful/non-existant. Forcing us to live on Earth if heaven exists is cruel enough as it is with.

I created a new saying "For God so loved the world, that he wiped all knowledge of Him from the minds of humanity so that they could get on with their lives in peace."

 

Because this "God" is completely taking over the media, the United States, and it's causing countless of people to become completely stupid about. It's distracting people from completely realizing they are HUMAN BEINGS. They are alive. They are not to be played nor to play others. They are not this or that, they are human.

We have VALUE. Humans have an unbelievable bond with nature and still politicians and higher figures continue to segregate us from something so great. Something we CAME from--nature. And it angers people when countless of people are lost to something that really doesn't exist (religion). And I stand firm by the fact that everything that Christianity stands by is a myth. If you don't believe me then look up some documents and documentaries on the truth behind Jesus Christ. Then tell me that it's real.

/endrant.exe

I just realized this was off topic. <_< ignore this post.