Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

im going to try this again for fun

NSF- Not soras fault
ISF - Is soras fault

Xemnas: started it all and should die, NSF
Xigbar: wanting to get a heart so he has to fight for it, ISF
Xaldin: wants to make it harder on sora and turn his mates into a heartless NTF
Vexen: Not owned by sora NSF
Lexaeus: Not owned by sora NSF
Zexion: Not owned by sora NSF
Saix: kept kairi prisoner, and threw his heart into confusion, making things harder NSF
Axel: Not owned by sora NSF
Demyx: Was ordered to stop sora or face the whole organization, 3 guys or a load of guys, however sora didnt have to fight. ISF
Luxord: wanting to get a heart so he has to fight for it, ISF
Marluxia: was going to die by the others anyway NSF
Larxene: antagonized sora and started the fight NSF
Roxas: aint dead woohoo
Xion: probably never met sora,however i dont know NSF
so i guess, it aint soras fault entirely, but he could of left some of them alive...

and for the record, this is getting a little bit off-topic.

 

Xemnas-Yes-It all started with him (it shoud end with him).
Xigbar-Yes-He was asking for it.
Xaldin-Yes-Capturing Belle.
Saix-Yes-Again, asking for it.
Demyx-No-Never did anything wrong
Luxord-Yes-Asking for it.
Marluxia-Yes-Capturing Namine
Larxene-Yes-Total *****.
Roxas-No-His other half.

 

Hey, who charged into combat with Demyx? From what I see, Sora taunted Demyx a bit while holding the keyblade, (First in defense, then relaxed) then Demyx initiated the fight. Oh, and he did the whole attacking Sora in the underworld thing.

People only see Sora diss him a bit, and jump on the "Sora's a mass murderer!" bandwagon.

 

The reason would be easy. People are trying to either say Sora was wrong and horrible or he had to do the actions he did with what information he had to go off of.

We judge things off our perceptions on real life. It doesn't make any sense to judge something off something delusional. In reality if someone was goading someone, which Demyx was at first, standing in that person's way to go stop others from being in danger, which he was under orders, and attacked someone earlier and displayed the same nature as earlier...

Would he be justified to do so?

If a person in real life goads someone and stands in front of a person who is trying to help someone else, that can be considered interference and attempting to assist in criminal activities, to go so far as murder. Whether he was stuck doing it or not...he did attack Sora previously.

Now if Demyx was Sora...NO ONE would think Sora was justified at all.

However, because Sora showed up, Demyx appeared in front of him, Sora had little to no knowledge STILL of the Org because they would not tell him crap except in teasing and mockery, and he'd already faced Demyx before who acted bizarre and forced him to a fight, be it easy or not...
Sora is seen as a murderer. Demyx to me is the only one Sora defeated that I can actually say was in the wrong place at the wrong time and had he actually been in different circumstances, he may have been fine. Sora talks to -anyone- who is willing to hear him out and tries to change. He talked to Xemnas and 'Ansem', Maleficent, etc. Some people in here consider Sora worse than Saix, and I have -no- idea how that is founded.

In seriousness, yes, Sora -could- have tried to talk to Demyx more, but Demyx also did not need to do what he did either then. Demyx's actions were very vague, confusing and he was in Sora's way of helping fight the 1000 Heartless that were storming up the path. I feel bad for Demyx, but he was stuck and so was Sora. How would it get judged? A misfortunate tragedy because soldiers in battle don't have time to ask questions all the time. A cop who someone hops in front of them and is interfering with trying to save people is not going to be able to ask questions when they are ready to attack and have shown they would in the past. Had Demyx said -one- thing to Sora to show he was serious and would leave the Org or something, Sora would have stopped because that -is- his nature. However, Demyx could not do so.

As for the others Sora fought that wanted their hearts back, the point comes down to 'at what cost' because none cared about others who actually had Hearts that were losing them to the Heartless. Sora did what he had to and though I can empathize with the Org, some of the Org would simply laugh at my benevolence and call it naivete. They'd laugh harder at people who say they were innocent and 'just wanted hearts'. Their wish for Hearts wasn't the problem. It was entirely their method on trying to achieve their goal, as I've said before. However, again, the only way any of us can analyze our opinions on Sora or the Org members etc is from our feelings, noticing things in real life and our choices we'd make. So in the end, it makes perfect sense.

 

Organization XIII wanted to become whole and they would do anything to accomplish their goal, but with Sora they knew that inside the vessel it held Roxas who was a traitor to them so they responded to Sora as if he was Roxas. Some of them had an ventatta against Sora because of Roxas which is something that the hero never understood because the game forshadowed it to make him naive and confused and never explained it really.

 

he did, cause if the organization had stolen kingdom hearts, they would have put it to some bad use. and they stole kairi, locked her in a cell, tried to kill riku and sora, tried to use roxas and his ability with the keyblade, same with sora, AND used namine. after all that i think all of them, except for axel, roxas, and xion, whoever the hell she is, deserved to die.

 

I didn't read the whole thread because it's, well, a big topic. Here's my opinion:
He was right when destroyed the Org., because despite being just "a group of incomplete people who wish to be whole", they were still an evil group and once they aquired KH, they would be whole again, which means that their power would multiply and they would be able to conquer the worlds :P

 

They didn't steal Kingdom hearts. They crafted their own out of the hearts of the unfortunates who got turned into Heartless and freed by Sora.

 

Pirates of the Caribbean 1

Ive always likened the the organization to the pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean 1. Both groups just wanted to be whole and complete(emotions and life wise, "complete beings") and they both did whatever they had to to satisfy their goals But they went about in some wrong ways(killing or harming innocent people).
Hmm, kinda funny kingdom hearts is supposed to be clear between black and white, light and dark good and bad it turns out... not so much.

 

I think most of you miss the point. Nobodies have no heart, which means, they can't feel sorry for someone, like someone or care for any other creature than themselves. And this means they can kick a puppy, kill a baby and don't care.
Are they dangerous? Yes. Is there any reason not to kill them? No. No one cares about them (except us, fans, of course). Everyone lived happily ever after, after they died.

And even if the Org managed to reach it's goal, they would regret what they have done in order to gain a heart and wish someone had stopped them (and if not, they really had deserved being destroyed).

 

The thing is, from ICSP's perspective, they are like fetus (Yes, I did just compare the organization to unborn children, sue me). Sure, at the moment, they are not able to think (to feel for them) but give them six months (a couple of million heartless) and they will.

Not to mention how many Organization members are not unfeeling such as Namine, (She helped Sora in COM due to guilt and because she was lonely) Roxas (didn't he cry over his friends?) and possibly Axel (He missed Roxas and had friendship).

ICSP! Days is almost out. Only a bit longer, then we'll finish this!

EDIT: Did I just shoot down someone on my own side? I must be getting bored...

 

Yeah, let them slaughter some hundreds more hearts and then the pretty Nobodies will become beautiful Somebodies.
Come on, for that 13 guys to get a heart it takes 13000 human beings (or maybe not so human beings) to loose one. I understand, that some people here would say it's equal trade, but not until the ones who lost their hearts are their family and friends.

I suspect that Namine and Roxas are capable of feelings because their hearts (= Kairi and Sora) didn't vanish into the darkness, but still lived on. How many other Nobodies can say such thing about themselves? None.
Axel is special, but still a Nobody. He had feelings for Roxas (and in the end for Sora too), but still didn't care about hurting other people. I think this is the reason why creators killed him in the end anyway.

I don't really know why Axel felt something for Roxas. Maybe because Roxas' heart wasn't gone. We know that one human can hold two hearts, so why can't two beings share one?

But you still need for any kind of relationship you a heart. Other Org members clearly didn't have one and had thus no feelings. And if they had any, we would have seen it, but we didn't. Sooo speculating on them having feelings is pointless, you can't prove it.

 

More than 13000, I think I killed more than that throughout KH2. But I digress. You've got the exact same point as me. Very good! However there is a flaw in our argument. What happens to hearts normally when released from a heartless? We know they don't return to being a human/anthropomorphic creature because Sora is the only one to return from being a heartless. So you then get the question: "Where do hearts go?" and we have never been told that. Perhaps to the original Kingdom Hearts, but we have no proof. Also, we assume that the hearts the Organization uses are used up. Thus ICSP can drop the bombshell "Surely these hearts are better off going into the Organization's Kingdom Hearts, rather than remaining heartless? There's no proof that the hearts are "Used up" The Organization was doing Sora a favour by drawing heartless to him, and they only started getting hostile after he killed Demyx."

And that's the other point. Like on our side, we have the theory the Organization is using up the hearts when they could go somewhere better, on the other side, he has the argument that they have feelings.

And so we wait for Days. Days will hopefully explain away both our theories.

 

Collecting hearts is maybe okay (?), but the problem is, they didn't just wait patiently for random people being swallowed by the darkness. No, the Organization had been working towards making as many people Heartless as possible. I'm quite sure they suceeded in it. They had had always been working with the same schema and it seems that every member of the Org was familiar with it. And I bet they would not proceed with the same methods if it didn't work, soooo it's pretty sure they actually did turn a lot of people into Heartless.
Thus they needed to be stopped.

Sorry, I didn't catch this one. Could you please repeat yourself?

P.S. And I have nega-rep because I'm stupid and say things without really thinking them out. :sweatdrop:

 

This hasn't died? o.o

According to Nomura, and the interview of where he mentions how Nobodies may have a second chance to be whole, every time a Heart is released, it goes into a state of suspension. Where? Remains to be seen. The Hearts aren't also used up as well. They might need it for energy and power, but they have no set limitations. First, Diz would have gone to actually present a machine that solves this more than likely if this was the case. Not just turn it into Data. And second, the Hearts when floating down, and as Xemnas used it, seemed to be perfectly fine. Assuming is liable as long as you don't base it as fact.

Really?

Because...it seems in 358/2 Days their missions consist of Heartless killing and hunting. The only one who deliberately went to turn someone into a Heartless, was Xaldin, and he does not equal everyone else.

 

Do you seriously think they would give someone as special as Roxas such delicate mission? Roxas is not trusted enough.
And anyway, I don't think showing how the Organization turns humans into Heartless on previews would be clever. Fans are interested right now in other things, Xion's identity or Roxas and Axel moments, for example.
I think we'll have to wait a very-very long time to finally verify or refute my thoughts.

And what about Axel? He tried to kidnap Kairi, just like Xaldin stealing something precious of the Beast.

 

That would be cool to see, perhaps it might show it in the game. Fans are all interested in the other organization members as well. It is Roxas story, but also the organization's as well. Not Xion's story. There are some people who don't care about Xion. Or care about Akuroku. -_-

Roxas was still learning the ways so the others had to supervise him. To what I have seen so far. It is true that the organization is going on missions to kill heartless.

Xaldin actually had the beast turn on his friends. He also kidnapped Belle and tried to anger the beast more by trying to have him choose which was more important to him. Beast turned back to normal, but he was the only organization member that got that chance. Axel attempted, but did not suceed as he wanted to see Roxas again.

 

I don't think so. They could've gotten hearts, and ta-da! They might've decided what they did was horrible, so they could've gotten a chance...only if they all got hearts, fight Sora because they still think their views were good, and then I'd say yes. Other then that, I don't know.

 

First option for me. They wanted to turn people into Heartless just so that they could get their hearts, weren't they? Like what Xaldin was doing to the Beast. You think it's okay to do that just because they wanted to be whole? Come on. I'm not going to continue with this because I'm not that good at pointing out plot points such as these, there are a lot of people more qualified to do this than me. Ask them, and they'll make you understand.

 

I don't think he was. Xemnas was the only one using the fact that he didn't have a heart as an excuse. Everyone else wanted their own heart.