Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD II.5 ReMIX' started by Princess Celestia, Dec 30, 2007.


Was Sora justified in destroying the Organization?

  1. Yes he was

    114 vote(s)
  2. No he wasn't

    151 vote(s)
  3. I dont know, dont ask me this question.

    44 vote(s)
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  1. Repliku Chaser

    Of course I do not think all sociopaths should be killed or even harmed. As I mentioned, there are levels to sociopath behavior and that needs taken into account. Also, if they aren't really -harming- anyone, they deserve to be there as much as anyone else does. What the Org did as a whole was wrong and only two even cared to get out of it by better behavior than what the other Org members had done. That's Axel and Roxas.

    The problem with Demyx is that he was with the Organization by affiliation, doing missions for them and he had already gone against Sora once. I do think Sora encouraged that fight and Demyx might have just ran off, if Sora had not egged him. Sora is a teenage boy who is tired, wants his friend back, wants to save the people who are threatened, and wants to go home. In the end, what he did can be viewed as wrong, but at the same time Demyx totally planned to kill Sora once he egged him on too.

    Sora has his flaws and was lucky in a way that Riku was taken and motivated to do things because Riku's flaws were one thing but Sora has his own. Sora follows his heart and feelings a lot, which we all know if we just go with feelings, that can lead us into trouble too. He's also not the most perceptive guy out there because of it and he has his ideals of protecting people which can go a bit far, especially if the people are 'girls'. He's not a 'perfect' kid by any means, just as Riku wasn't either. However, he was tossed into a lot of adversity caused by adults who had been in this game a lot longer than he was. He does his best. With Demyx, he just lost his temper. Demyx came into that fight preparing to kill Sora for pushing him. Sora wanted to -stop- Demyx and the Org. I do think Sora went about things with Demyx wrongly and certainly had a lot more mercy on a girl that messed up his head and all but eh, as I said, the kid has some flaws. I don't see him as a murderer though and think Demyx named the stakes too, being on the wrong side and not offering to surrender or do anything other than run away to be seen another time.

    Roxas was -a lot- more brutal and violent than Sora was really and yet people like him. It does kind of confuse me how people can say Roxas is so great all the time, but if Sora loses his temper and gets sick of someone, he's a murderer of many, even though they were all killers. Really, Roxas was a lot more aggressive and has a strong fan base but if he were there instead of Sora, he would not have bothered to ever ask anything. He'd have been on the attack. Why he was like that though can be attributed to his training and time with the Org, and then wanting out of it. Sora's temper egged on Demyx into a fight. Roxas's temper sent him into rages where he really did try to kill people. Fortunately for Roxas, he failed.
  2. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    The thing about characters like Roxas, is they dont try to be perfect. They dont pretend to be nice.

    Roxas is a straight player, if he doesnt like you, he will announce thier intentions, step up to the plate and take you out.

    Sora's brutality towards Demyx is just so unexpected, its just like you said.

    One girl screws up his head in an attempt to turn him into a meat puppet, and hes still like "What, someones is tring to hurt Namine? NOOO!" Then he attacks Axel in defence of Namine. Ironically, Axel is on Sora's side.

    but on the other hand Demyx sais "You guys are looking lively." and Sora gets all "You cant fight, this guy's a kook, you have no heart" and then kills him. Then goes all William Walace wardance status beating his chest calling others out to fight him, meanwhile he forgets the actual purpose of him being there is to save his friends.
  3. 11jones2 Traverse Town Homebody

    Nov 20, 2007
  4. It wasn't like Demyx really had a choice first. Fight Sora, he dies, doesn't at least fight Sora (which he did already once before this, but I'm sure the Org. accepts failure at times), dies anyway as he will be deemed a traitor by the Organization, and will be chased down, like Axel had. He had his orders, written even on paper. Demyx used the stone so he could use his powers at the beginning in the Underworld, but once that was done, he gave it back by putting it on the floor (Sora didn't have to snatched it away from him). That's all he ever did, other than give Sora a minor fight, steal the Olympus Stone. The second time, you find Demyx just standing there, and of course, Sora takes his weapon as someone smart would've done so. You see Demyx is like whoa, then just says a greeting, and I'm not going to repeat the dialogue and why. Sora egged him on, Demyx had to make a decision (you could see him acting on it), and then begins to fight in the end.

    Demyx could've done something then run away or surrender, but really, it was upon stakes, and Sora was just running his mouth off, saying they don't have hearts and feelings. He could've taken it easy, that was unneeded, and the battle could have been avoided. I think those words really hit Demyx on the fact that he didn't have a heart, and just said to himself, "Fine, screw it".

    The thing with Roxas, is that he doesn't go at it like Sora did, kill without a care (it wasn't until he saw Saix, perhaps Axel, that he finally got into his brain of what the Nobodies were about,, and how they felt on the matter, all the time following someone's opinion on them, instead of his own. Flawed, but immensely annoying, and he wasn't justified in doing so, unless they provoked him to fight and left no other alternative) I do not think that Roxas would've done what Sora had done, despite his brutality and short-tempered personality. The only times he had ever attacked directly was Diz, which was right for him, because his whole existence, friends, anything of Twilight Town was completely fake, he was used, only to be disposed of and go back into Sora. He was angry, he was hurt, and he took it out on the computer which was the main point of his living a lie. That's another reason completely from what you said for Sora.

    As for him attacking Sora himself, I think it was more of a test, wanting to take back some of his life and existence, and he gave when he was defeated, taking his fate as it is. If Roxas was in Sora's place at the time of Demyx, he'll listen out a bit first and take his own conclusion on what to do, and analyzes, because he is much more perceptive in that matter. Is the same way of what Roxas did with Axel, the redhead outright attacked him, yet he took time to see what he was saying, and rate him his own way. Keep in mind that Roxas was frustrated and confused with everything by that time, yet he hesitated from outwardly charging until they showed him there was nothing to talk about.

    And I also don't understand what was the Organization, "ruining the worlds". Sure, people like Luxord and Xaldin were wrecking havoc, but what the Org. did was collect the Heartless' hearts, like simply defeating them, and it's going to the moon-shape KH. There was nothing wong with that, the worlds were fine, nothing was out of place. That was all Riku could say, "You're messing up our worlds."



    Xemnas didn't respond to that very correctly, but I think he was at the point that he simply didn't care anymore, not that he ever did, so his answer was more like a "maybe". Unless the real threat was the fact that Xemnas might gain power from it after they get their hearts, but that's another case completely, and it doesn't rest on the Organization itself, but its leader.
  5. Hakurei Reimu Take my hand. And then I'll fly with you right up

    Apr 19, 2007
    I'd say yes. Since the Organization only cares about kingdom hearts and is willing to do anything to get it quicker, it's ok for Sora to teach 'em a lesson in humanity knowing whatever crap they come up next mite b the last...
  6. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    Bottom line. Demyx was screwed. He wouldnt have hurt anyone if Sora didnt attack him. But Sora attacked him anyway. He tried to avoid a fight. But Sora pressured him into it.

    Also, why did Sora waste all that time messing with Demyx, when his friends were in danger? Why did he do that little wardance when Demyx was dead, instead dealing saving his friends imediatly.
  7. John Clay Rice Hollow Bastion Committee

    May 14, 2007
    Rupp Arena
    That's the thing. If the Organization gotten their hearts back and completed Kingdom Hearts then everything and everyone would be in great danger. They would all die. It's like a paradox to space time contiunum. You can symphaize with the Nobodies all you want but they still had to be stopped.
  8. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    Why do you think that?

    If the Org got a heart, they may have just said, "Well, we screwed that one up, lets go be normal people."

    It may not seem to match thier characters, but we dont know how thier character is if they had a heart.
  9. Repliku Chaser

    Riku's words were short and curt, as Riku is often straight and blunt about things. "You're messing up our worlds" was true. They -WERE- using the Heartless to attack people. Xehanort, who Xemnas DOES remember, created the Emblem Heartless in the first place. Saix SHOWS that he can control the Heartless and tells Sora that anyone with a strong will connected to Darkness can. Luxord and Xigbar, also Xaldin, make very powerful Emblem Heartless to go against others and are from what?....former people's Hearts. The Heartless aren't just formed out of smoke and a midnight sky, you know. I would say the deaths of a ton of people on several worlds gives Riku the right to say 'You're messing up our worlds'. Death and mayhem tend to do that, don't you think?

    As for Demyx, you -do not know- that he would not have come back around later. He was a gopher man for the Org, and as said, I agree that Sora calling him out was brash and all, but Demyx made the stakes too by not doing anything else than fighting. Also, you do know that if you lose the first fight with Demyx, you die? So the stakes were there all along. The threat of death was there prior. Sora was angry and challenging, but the Org were enemies. Demyx was running away, but he'd already been a threat. If anything was to change, Demyx could have surrendered or he could have kept on running. He didn't need to turn around. He has a dark portal. I do think maybe Demyx was an Org member, that with a bit more courage, he could have turned out like Axel but it just wasn't happening. I still can't say Sora murdered him. It was a battle both people agreed to. A duel of sorts. Demyx easily could have dark portaled or ran away, or surrendered. So calling him out was presumptuous, but he didn't -trap- Demyx into the fight. I think though Demyx's fight the 2nd time there was the only time I let out a 'Damn, Sora!' because I too was shocked he'd be so rude. However, people keep thinking he's so nicey nice and pure, and they should have paid attention to the fact he isn't always. He did, after all, turn into a Shadow. You have to have Darkness in your heart to turn into a Heartless and he was not all pure in KH either.

    As for Roxas...without his memories he was more docile because he had -friends- around and a somewhat stable life that Namine implanted in him. As he was altering, he was becoming more hostile. In the Roxas vs Riku fights, Roxas clearly was much more violent and Riku just flowed with things. Roxas was losing the fight with Riku and shouts out "I'm winning!" in agitation but it's clear there he was definitely not, before Riku changed, etc. He strikes at Sora repeatedly again showing his rage and the temper flares when he's bashing away at the computer. Isn't this the reason people -like- Roxas? Because he's more emo, expressive, ANGRY, etc and they see Sora as a goodie goodie who doesn't express anything else and is 'perfectly a kid'? I think more people ought to take a look at Sora and see that even if he has his moments of 'duh' perception, he has very real depth too. When he's sad though, his friends help lift him up. When he's angry, his friends turn him around and get him to focus.

    Yes, Demyx tried to avoid the fight. However, being egged on, he decided to enter it full bore and made his decision. Also, Sora's friends were in danger by who???? The...Org??, kinda makes sense to me that he was going after the Org to try to get answers and progress at all. He was being led around on a chain, so if he takes the initiative, he's a killer in your mind. I call it being smart. Not everyone wants to be led around in circles to do someone else's bidding when that someone is an egotistical, insane, megalomaniac, psychopath out for himself. A group of them all together, all the more reason to not want to follow the leaders. Again, yes, Demyx's death might not have had to happen, but you do not know that it did too. He had the power of choice to leave that battle. Sora can't dark portal. Sora couldn't have chased him.

    Exactly. With Xemnas in power, IF even he was going to follow through with the plan to give the Org all Hearts back in the first place...regular other people living their lives were threatened even more by the Org. No one knows what the Organization would have done. Xemnas, after all, WAS Xehanort who created Emblem Heartless and all. He now was Xemnas who was taking advantage of the hearts of many people to make his goals happen. He had no remorse at all for anything and felt justified because he's who he is. Saix had no remorse etc. Demyx had no remorse. The only thing he wanted to do was run away from danger, which is a meme reaction. He had no care either that could be noted. I do agree Demyx might have had potential to change with a 'hearted friend' as Axel had found and went to fight for. However, it just did not happen. The rest of the Organization, especially the top ones, had purpose and maybe in 358/2 Days we will find out why they were so zealous in their pursuits to get 'whole' and more real etc. I do think BBS and 358/2 Days are going to clarify quite a bit pertaining to the Org and Xehanort/Xemnas.

    Regardless though of the reasons why, there was no excuse for murder in droves. Especially when they had the power to -ask- Sora and/or Riku for assistance and maybe that would have coerced the aid of DiZ again too. Things could have turned out better if the Org wasn't as 'unorganized' as it was.
  10. Drive a hard bargain, Repliku.

    However, what gets my notice is that Riku says, "Your messing up our worlds!" (found the right quote), instead of "You're going to mess up our worlds.", which was odd, because there was nothing really wrong with them, except for the usual Heartless that was being sent for Sora to fight. We're never given a specific reason or explanation why that would harm the worlds, we're just suppose to know is "bad", for some reason or another, and take it from there. We've never seen anything else in any world rifting for that quote to be said, or messing with a space time continuum, which confuses me. I'd like to see what some of the characters say in canon or in reports what is it that completing that KH could do.

    The Emblem Heartless, yes, they were created by Xehanort and used by Ansem Heartless, but where does it say that it needed human hearts to do so? All I read was that they were artificially made in a machine, in the process of a how a normal Heartless is created. They might've studied human hearts trying to create said machine, but who never said that they might've used themselves? Besides, I don't think Luxord, Xigbar, etc. can create Emblem Heartless, but more like summon them.

    On the other hand, you keep mention Xemnas and his work, yet it doesn't pertain to the rest of the Organization or its neophytes, unless they know, because I'm sure Xemnas couldn't have shared every knowledge he had with them, he could basically just have told them the way it goes down: finish this KH, you get your heart. They were ruthless, which again, felt no remorse, but that's what they were looking for, a heart to feel with, and seeing as they are creatures, only in human form, they would follow that desire not matter what the cost (and hinder anyone else who tried to stop them from gaining that goal of getting that heart). Selfish, yes, but not in the way they had to be all destroyed (in fact, I reallly think the whole reason the Org. had to be killed were for game reasons, beating the baddies). Is the same with Saïx, he was cold, we've seen, but in the end of his death, you could see all he wanted was his heart in the long run, and was doing anything to get so.

    But I'll guess I'll take it for what it is then.
  11. KissesOfKunai Merlin's Housekeeper

    May 13, 2007
    Behind you.
    The Organization sent the Heartless after Sora because A. Sora would take the Hearts out of the Heartless and feed it to Kingdom Hearts and B. If Sora go killed by an Heartless Roxas (As his Nobody) would come out and the Organization just can use Roxas instead of Sora. It would be a win-win suitation for the Nobodies.

    But not for Sora because the Heartless was destroying the worlds. But really, it's just the usual Heartless and plus, just as Leon said (Was it Leon? I don't remember...) in KH, "As long as there is darkness in every heart, the Heartless will keep on coming" (Or something like that...) So really, Organization or no Organization, there will still be Heartless eating up the worlds.

    Just as Twilight Night said, when Riku said "Your messing up our worlds!" The Organization didn't really have a reason to destroy worlds. All they ever wanted was to get there Hearts back. But since they can't feel and have no compassion, they don't care what happens as long as they get their own Heart back. If they have to endanger a world to get Sora to kill the Heartless there, screw who ever dies just get a bunch of Heartless there and Sora will come running. So in the end, Sora's only a pawn to Xemnas's eyes.

    The only reason I think the Organization XIII members attack Sora is because Sora goes all taunting on them or something really pisses them off. I mean, Organization XIII are the main bad guys in KH2, that's how Nomura made it and that's what they'll be.
  12. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    Repliku, you make a hard case, but destroying the Org niether stopped the Heartless, or the Nobodies.

    So, the "They created the heartless" arguement doesnt cut it, because Xehanort created the heartless, not the Org entirely. Xenmas may lead the Org, but he is not the entire Org.

    Saix was very cold, but all his cold and callousness was a result of Sora's callousness.

    Basically this is what happened,

    Siax: Sora, your going to be killing heartless anyway, why not just cooperate with us so we can get our hearts back?

    Sora: No, I'd rather see you die, you heartless (insert explative here)

    Saix: Ok, you want to play that way? Everyone, give 'em hell!
  13. Repliku Chaser

    The Heartless were reduced greatly in number after KH1. However, in KH2 they were reemerging in vaster numbers and it is shown that the Organization had a hand in that, moving them about. The Nobodies were also manipulated by the Organization. Maleficent and Pete really had very little control over the Heartless in Kh2. They were pathetic. The Org was doing most of it and Saix proved quite easily that the Org had stronger wills to be able to take control easily. Xigbar DID make that dragon a Heartless. Xaldin DID try to corrupt Beast and also made the Heartless in the hall. Luxord DID make the Heartless that had the Aztec gold. There were also new Heartless that were Emblem sort in KH2 that the Org seemed to possibly have made which were not present in KH. The Org WERE making Heartless and knew how and also guiding them about so that more people would lose their Hearts, become Heartless and Sora or Roxas (whichever they could get) would use their Keyblades and send those Heartless on to the pseudo- Kingdom Hearts. That is the whole plot to the story.

    To make a point here, YES there were going to be some dwindling Heartless around if the Org were not there. YES there would be Nobodies too, because they are formed when a Heart gives into Darkness. However, the Org controlling all this and manipulating made them all far deadlier to people. They were attacking worlds, messing things up etc. Without the 'order' of the Org being there, these dangerous creatures known as Heartless were able to easier be contended against, considering worlds had been learning more how to defend themselves after all the trouble in KH. The Organization were controlling Heartless to do what they wanted. Without the Org, the Nobodies and Heartless wouldn't have been such a big deal. The Nobodies really wouldn't have been a deal AT ALL without the Org.

    This also includes the ones that rebelled such as Marluxia and Larx etc. Marluxia was definitely not going to be any better of a leader than Xemnas and in fact seemed to have less of purpose for it other than he was a spoiled brat. Vexen about showed the same skills for it and motivations. For the majority of the Org, it was not about just getting their Hearts back: It was about power. Also, their sociopathic ways made it difficult to control them but through fear of their existences being squashed by Xemnas. Xemnas was asleep, so CoM had its little rebels. Xemnas is awake in KH2...they all do what they are told, except Axel and Roxas.

    Also, where do you ever get that Saix was being nice? So what at the end he pines to the moon about where his heart is? He didn't care about anyone else's. He had Sora on his HANDS AND KNEES begging for Kairi's safety and to be taken to her. He made comments how he knew how to abuse a heart since Nobodies remembered what it was like to have them. He would die laughing at the resistance with Kairi and Namine (though I did laugh there because it was ridiculous). Saix could have worked better with Sora if he had any compulsion to do so. Let's also not forget how he says to Xemnas that the game is over. Note, they were DONE using Sora. They didn't need him anymore.

    In the end, it doesn't matter if Xehanort's crimes get tacked onto Xemnas's or not. The line Riku said "You are messing up our worlds" was true and I truly fail to see how people cannot see the logic in those words. The Org DID make Heartless, were responsible for LIVING people losing their lives so that they could 'POSSIBLY' have theirs and extra power to boot. If you can seriously JUSTIFY the deaths of tons of people across quite a few worlds, the kidnappings etc, the manipulations and all, you fall for the typical psychopathic behavior as I had outlined. Think about it. Yes, if the Org did NOT do these things and heck, if they had just STOPPED doing them and asked Sora and/or Riku for help instead of lying etc...ya know, the story could have turned out a lot differently.

    The only person who has any ounce of chance of change that did not even try to but to run away was Demyx. There is nowhere in the story where any of the Org asked Sora for help at all. I start to ponder if people just don't think it's because the Org kept calling him a traitor because Roxas was inside him and all. I have sympathy for the Org but seriously...people are calling the person that stopped them from killing and doing zealot acts ...a murderer. He did not kill a single one of them in cold blood. He did not ask to be dragged around to kill Heartless that were being led around by the Org to kill people etc. He didn't ask for his friend to be kidnapped. He didn't ask for his friends on other worlds to be hurt or nearly destroyed. The Org are unfortunate beings, but to form MORE Nobodies, to kill more people and make them Heartless to put their Hearts in a pseudo-KH...ya know, again, murdering so you can get a body part from someone who was living just fine on their own is not right. I just really don't get this at all.
  14. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    In regards to Saix:

    Put yourself in his situation. You know that Sora is going to kill heartless no matter what, its like his job.

    You warn him that someone is tring to destroy Sora, and you too are tring to stop the guy tring to destroy him.

    You show concern for Sora, and Kairi. Explaining that you want him too suceed in defeating heartless, and you dont want Axel to kill him.

    Then, when Malificent attacks Hallow Bastion, your nobodies interfere, and save it, as well as Sora. Those 1000 heartless were working for Malificent, the nobodies were attacking them.

    But, rather than the keyblader be appreciative of what you've done, he kills one of your top guys, then calls out -YOU- and your allies.

    At this point you say, "Screw it, if he wants war, then its war!" As the Org did. At this point I would probably be just as cold as Saix, and I actually have a heart. I probably woulnt go as far as to make him beg for Riku and Kairi to humiliate him, but hey, what do you expect there are many people who would.

    So there, Saix was a victom too, not the evil freak everyone make him out too be. Like I said, many people would do the same thing.

    The Heartless: We know most emblem heartless are only native to certain worlds. Its possible that the new emblem heartless were previously unseen because they are native to worlds we previously didnt know about.

    Also, in regards to the increased #, a whole year went by. Also, Yen Sid said, as long as thier is darkness in anyones heart, the hearless will trive. So, the heartless will always keep growing natually. Remember how many heartless came out at the end, when psuedo Kingdom Hearts exploded? There are countless heartless.

    In regards to Riku's quote: Riku seems to take a lot of things personnally. When he talks to things he doesnt like, he cites wierd reasons which dont really reveal what he is actually tring to say. IE: He wanted to destroy Ansem, the Pursuer of the Dark, because "He smelled bad."

    Riku is just weird, his comments are wierd. I dont think anything he sais should be taken as cannon. (Dang, I should be a laywer or something for that one)
  15. Repliku Chaser

    Dude, Saix had NO caring for Sora at all! He was trying to get at Axel who was trying to break Roxas out who was ALSO not compliant with the Org anymore. Roxas also knew what the Org was up to whereas Sora did not. Who do you want to try to manipulate if you have a choice? Roxas, who knows what is going on and ran away from the Org saying screw it, or Sora who is oblivious and easier to manipulate? Either way, they needed a Keyblade wielder so those are the two choices. Logic would say to just keep the one who is naive and easily malleable. Saix had no feelings towards caring about Sora or Roxas.

    Also, Demyx was NOT a top guy by any means. Xaldin was, sure but Xaldin was in the line of fire and trying to corrupt Beast to make a Heartless and Nobody. Saix was NOT a victim. He was one of the coldest people in the whole game. He had a plan, he was a manipulator and he declares himself such. As I said before, he could have gotten nearly anything from Sora when he was on his hands and knees begging to see Kairi and you know...he just found it amusing to have that power to exert. That same power wouldn't have worked on Roxas, would it? They wanted Sora back once they realized Roxas was gone because Sora was oblivious. Axel and Demyx were told to do him in if Roxas was unreachable and they could not get him to acknowledge who he was. However, later it became apparent, that would be lame so they had to stand in Axel's way as he decided on a new plan, and Demyx was just a gopher. He was not that important and the Org really didn't care that much about him. If they had, they'd have shown something towards that.
  16. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    Demyx was a RANKED member of the Org! He had a number! He was in the top 9 of an army! Talk about top dog!

    He commanded his own personall army of Dancers.

    Demyx was NEVER told to kill Sora. Just "use aggresion." Would could be as simple as pushing or shoving, or playing a song to him and sommoning water elementals.

    Also, you have to think about Saix mindset when he made Sora beg. Sora had already declared war on the Org. Saix figured if its war, its war.

    Axel was told to do Roxas in, the Org believed that Roxas had consiously betrayed them. Which he did, he just didnt know about it.
  17. Repliku Chaser

    Sora never claimed outright war on the Org ever. There is nowhere in the game he says "This means war" or anything remotely close. The Org used Sora, Sora had to stop them. Just because you sympathize with the Nobody condition, it doesn't mean a person can stand by and just let murderers do whatever they want. They could have tried other options but they were zealous in their plight. Also, Roxas, as said, knew much more of the Org's plans and walked away. It was to their benefit, once it was determined Roxas could not be brought to control, to kill him. When that failed, it was better to leave Sora because Sora knew nothing of their plans and could be made to be moved as a pawn. These people don't have Hearts. You keep trying to give them emotions they don't possess to include they were mad at Sora and so they pressed on a war. That fight was always planned. They knew what they were doing for a long time and any actions the Org did out of scheming was long set into motion. They just had to wait for the Keyblade wielder to show up. They are logical minded. They moved and adapted as necessary and Sora was oblivious and having to learn things. He only could get info by Riku's and King Mickey's involvements as the plot was progressing. There was no outright "We want revenge on Sora" and there was no scene of Sora calling all out war either. The Org was going to do what they were regardless of who they had to use. Sora was easier to use when Roxas was not going to cooperate and was not an option. This is why they were stopping Axel from trying to bring back Roxas. Roxas was too unstable to their plans.

    Also, what did Demyx do that showed he was of any importance to the Org above others? He stole the Olympus Stone. He went to Hollow Bastion and was watching things there. He really wasn't doing things as high up the rung as Xaldin, Luxord, Saix and Xigbar were. He was not really that big a member in any regards. The order of the Nobodies numbers also is when they came into the Org, not their necessary power ranks. Saix was lower than others and yet he held considerable sway over the Org and it could be argued he was at least on par with Xigbar for power. The numbers mean very little. Demyx wasn't that smart and wasn't that big a contributor to the Org. He had menial tasks in comparison with the more apt members. Vexen tried the excuse of he had more rank than Marluxia who was #11. However, Xemnas DID place Marluxia in charge of the Castle Oblivion so this was lame. Also, saying Demyx was such a critical member to the Org kind of defeats the argument of saying Demyx could have had a chance to be saved were he to surrender or if Sora hadn't egged him on. If he was solidly in the scheme and not so wishy washy saying "They sent the wrong guy" well...he would have been just as bad as all the others in it.
  18. Princess Celestia Supreme Co-Ruler of Equestria

    Dec 20, 2007
    I dont think your arguement of "They are cold and logical and forced Sora into fighting them" mesures up.

    Since they were so logical, the most logical thing to do would be to let Sora kill heartless naturally, as they did, because it is the most logical thing to do. He would eventually kill enough to grant them thier goal. Sora kills every heartless he sees anyway, and they would avoid making an unnessisary enemy.

    Sora, on the otherhand, was emotional, and proved to be the aggresor towards them, killing one of them in a fight Sora started. He forced them into war. They were forced into war. Logically the only thing to do if someone is is making an effort to kill you, is to defend yourself.

    So tell me logically who is the bad guy here.
  19. Ixenin Destiny Islands Resident

    Jun 17, 2007
    Here...remind me again why I left?
    You're guilty of the same thing, considering amusement qualifies as an emotion.
  20. xekushi Gummi Ship Junkie

    Mar 27, 2007
    some place else
    I think it all depends on how you look at this. Org13 want hearts to built Kingdom Hearts so they can be whole. They basiclly need to kill heartless so claim the hearts they carry, they control the heartless cause they like animals follow the strongest. The Org13 use this to their advantage so they send send the Keyblademasters to kill the heartless so they can take the heartsto make kingdom hearts.

    Now sending the heartless into populated areas for Sora to attack them could be considered a bad thing and trying to turn Beast into a nobody I guess is a bad thing. But nothing else would've been required had they got their kingdom hearts and their own would which is what Xemnas was doing. Whos do say the threat couldn't have ended there?
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