Birth by Sleep Why Ven looks like Roxas *MAJOR SPOILERS!*

Ven can't be Sora, Because Sora's already in BBS.

We're getting alot of "Older Brother" Theories aren't we? xD I actually refuse to believe that Ven is related to Sora at all. Though he could have a high connection, Maybe even going behind Terra's back to make him a keyblade wielder too. xD This is a possible theory and Nomura is killing us just to find out D:

 

oh! your right! i forgot that they weild sticks

that cant work cuz Sora is already like 4 or 5 in BBS

 

*sigh* U didn't read it right, maybe his true heart was born....and like I said...it's a theory I'm creating..but I'm positive aqua and xion have a connection...

 

He also said that the BBS characters were connected, not related, to one or more of the regular KH characters

True, since they're not real keyblades (no keychains) they could even just be a different type of weapon (i.g. Leon's keyblade) but that would mean Terra isn't a real one either, so it would only work for MX or DS

Thank You! someone with common sense

THat was real confusing, and part of that makes no sense. but that has a good idea. Connect the three games to find the truth

 

I was just putting notes...and....Terra might become a keyblade master...remember the trailer?"I don't care about being master....this power I use for my friends!!"-Terra

supporting the "Ven is an unbirth" maybe he was created when sora was born...or...sora was born without a heart..so when ven dies(sleep) sora's heart is "born"(birth)...this is Kingdom Hearts guys...kh is about hearts!!!

 

Well, in the trailer for BBS, Ven said that he wanted Terra to get rid of him. Maybe he meant that he wanted to be born again. He could be a special type of unbirth, since his heart's so strong (like with Sora and Roxas). Maybe by going to sleep, Ven would give birth to a new weilder of the keyblade, Sora. That could explain why Terra and Ven spend so much time at Destiny Islands (pic of Terra watching Sora and Riku fight). That's just my two cents.

 

It sounds plausible, but how did Ven make Sora AND his mom/parents forget? Unless he was a memory witch/warlock like Namine...

 

GREAT THEORY!!!!
But I agree with him. They did say they were connected. Is it possible that when Ven left that he was lost in the darkness then when Sora was revived in KH1 that Ven was revived to but as Roxas??? Remember also that he's an Unbirth (no soul). When he either died or disappeared he might of fell into darkness just like nobodies. But when Kairi light helped Sora he might of followed it but then got connect to Sora and became Roxas because Kairi IS Sora's Light remember. =D. Thats a quick theory of mine.

But that doesnt mean its right. Besides yours sounds like a fun twist. Its really good honest. :)

 

That wouldn't make sense for Ven to be revived as Roxas, Nomura said that he hadn't even drawn any of the character's faces when Kingdom Hearts II came out, and that's the reason why Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix's secret ending had their faces in it, Kingdom Hearts II's secret ending had the helmet on as an excuse for Nomura not knowing what the characters should look like yet, so what I'm trying to say is, when Roxas was brought into the Kingdom Hearts series, Ven didn't even have a physical appearance at the time, nor did he even exist yet as a character, and why wouldn't Roxas have the EXACT same clothes as Ven? Then again, Nomura could have made up a connection while thinking of how Ven should look like. But Ven couldn't be revived as Roxas since the members of the organization got their names by mixing up their original self's name and adding a X, so Ven couldn't make up Roxas. I could be wrong on all of it, but considering the time line of the creation of the characters, it's really hard to make a plausible connection between all of them. Nomura did say that there was a connection between Roxas and Ven, he just didn't say how...so it may be something way simpler than what we are making theories for, and the un-births. Oh yeah, when they were called emblems by a lot of people or maybe it was leaked information, I don't know, but emblems are the fake heartless that Ansem made with a machine that makes fake heartless, so maybe unbirths are emblems, just known as unbirths, but they match the qualities of an emblem...I mean, it would make some sense, since they were never born as a human so the human couldn't give into the darkness to make a heartless, so they were never REALLY born, thus classifying them as emblems, yet naming them unbirths, oh yeah, Nomura said that the unbirths get pissed off, or attack by using emotion, so the emblems could be releasing their emotions by making others lose their hearts, because without a heart, you can't really be born in the Kingdom Hearts aspect of the human life, sense without a heart a shell cannot be made to give birth to a nobody, and they couldn't lose their souls if they never existed like the nobodies who don't have hearts after their originals lost their hearts, which is what the emblems/unbirths would be doing to the humans, which would also give somewhat a connection between nobodies and unbirths since they were born without hearts yet can express emotions, even though the nobodies express fake emotions, it's still in a way expressing an emotion...in a way, then the unbirths are the soul since they weren't really heartless to begin with since they never had a real heart to give into the darkness thus bringing about a real heartless, so since they had to be one made of one of the three: soul(vacancy), heart (heartless already called dibs), or an empty shell(already taken by the nobodies), common sense would tell you that it would have to be the soul...

That wasn't a really thought out theory, but I still think it's alright.​

 

you dont know that he was 10 its just a ten year seperation Ven could have been 5 when sora was born

 

oh I have a way better theory now I've been digging around. :D. Thats just one old simple theory. I'm still trying to at least gather enough information to create a theory at least close to the point of Roxas and Ven. They are connected and yet if what you say is true then there's something I'm probably missing. So far I think Ven was reborn as Roxas. He has a heart so wouldnt it make a little since. A nobody is born when a strong hearted person loses there. That goes for Unbirth (if they truely have hearts but not soul.) It is common sence Heartless (no hearts) Nobodies (an empty shell) and then Unbirths (no souls) like you said. Then again just by reading your repl, you know tons more. (as a complament lol) Still I'm still confused of all the theories and rumors going around. I'm just taking them together, find clues on the games and then putting pieces together. Nomura's clues are what made me come up with that first theory. And I find new clues everytime I re-watch something or something new. I'm almost doing writing the newest theory I have and its nothing compare to what I first said. :D

 

all of these theories are awsome but there's one tiny mistake...in the game...what is a heart?...in reality it would be one of Ur important organs in Ur organ system....in the game...it's more like Ur soul...cause imagine if the heartless took Ur real Heart(now that's scary)and bloody....that would make...

Heart=Soul

now...U guys are sayin that Unbirths are having to do with souls...I'm not sure...the enemies seem to have a very fitten name...

Nobodies=Not supposed to exist,Nothing
Heartless=those without hearts,Darkness
Unbirths=those who are not born, or yet await birth......eh? that works...

 

Read the Ansem reports from both of the Kingdom Hearts games, they really help out a lot...that's how I knew about the machine Ansem made to make the emblems. Umm, when you read the Kingdom Hearts II Secret Ansem Reports, it will put a HUGE hole in your theory about Ven being reborn as Roxas.​

@ lexamus:

In the game, according to Xemnas, who is Xehanort's nobody, the heart is the source of all power, and what is power? Life… and I'm pretty sure Xehanort knows most about the heart than anybody, if he can make emblems by using a machine and control heartless and be the darkness in somebody's heart, what I mean by that is like he knows ways to get into somebody's heart, how to tamper with it for his own advantage, Ansem did that, but Ansem is Xehanort just in heartless form, that's still Xehanort just as a heartless, which gives us another mystery to as why did Xehanort have the power to have both a human nobody AND still be a human heartless as himself? I hope we learn more about him later, and he becomes a boss again, since he was already three times in all of the Kingdom Hearts games so far in a way, as a heartless and a nobody, which brings me back to the fact that Xehanort remained alive after being defeated by Sora, then the light from the DTD made him like implode I guess, then Riku kicked his ass, and he was still around in Kingdom Hearts II as Riku...does that mean he's still inside Riku's heart, because I don't remember if what happened in TWTNW got rid of Ansem/Xehanort in Riku's heart for good, or was it just Riku's physical appearance? What I'm getting at is that Xehanort will probably play a huge role in Birth By Sleep or Kingdom Hearts 3. But I'm going to get back on topic, yeah, so Xemnas just saying that hearts are the source of all power over and over again must mean nothing, right? Even though he has memories from Xehanort, which to me knows most about the heart, since he was experienced all of the changes you go through when you lose your heart in the Kingdom Hearts game...getting off topic again. Yeah, so since Xemnas was saying what he was saying and that the heart had feelings/emotions, and if you lose your heart a nobody is made, so the heart would turn into a heartless since it gave in to the darkness which is what heartless are the darkness in the people's heart, so what I'm getting at is that the heartless are nothing more but the darkness in your heart, your nobody is your shell, and what happens to your emotions? Here is part of an Ansem report to prove that heartless lack emotions:

Ansem Report 4- I believe the Heartless are taking hearts. They are born from those who've lost their hearts, and thrive on hearts seized from others. The hearts taken by the heartless become Heartless themselves.
Though I lack proof, I am confident in this hypothesis. I must also study their behavioral principles.
Though they lack emotions, they do seem to have some intelligence. How to communicate with them?
It's just occurred to me: Could they be the darkness in people's hearts?

So the emotions of the person would have to be separated from the heart if the heart were to give in to the darkness, so without a heart, you cannot not exist, but since the unbirths were souls at one point of time, they used to exist, so when they became nothing but emotions, they were unborn, because you can't exist in the Kingdom Hearts universe without having a heart. Yet another part of an Ansem Report:

Ansem Report 13 (Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix)-
When the heart casts off the flesh, where does the body go?
Heart and soul are separate, and the spirit remains in the body. But can we assume that the leftover body and soul perish?

What does he mean by spirit remains in the body? Did the nobodies have spirits? Maybe the reason why unbirths aren't in any other Kingdom Hearts games besides BBS will be explained, and maybe the spirit will be brought in Kingdom Hearts 3? I don't know what the hell the spirit means in this game.

Anyway, it's a game dude, the heart just makes you exist in the game series. Unbirth means that you were born before, but then you reverted back to not being born, here is an example: undo.​

 

well srry...I didn't see the ansem reports cause..I don't have final mix OMG!!...Damn Nomura:nerve:
and too many words dude...lol when I saw it my head exploded..Anyway...I see Ur point..and thanks a lot...another mystery is solved unfortunately another one appears....*sigh*

Going off topic:
I'm still with my Xion theory...what if Xion was a new species out of memories? eh?

 

Hmm... interesting idea. ;]

 

We don't know Ven's age at all. Atleast I don't. For the most part we can assume that Ven might be 14-18 in my opinon. If he was five when Sora was born, isn't Sora about 4 in BBS? if not 5? If so then you're saying Ven is Nine or Ten through BBS altogether which is just utterly impossible by just looking at him.

Big Brother = Possible
Father = SLIGHTLY possible, I don't want it to happen though.

 

Don't you think Nomura has thought of a more complicated story addition by now? Like maybe, Ven is something different to Sora than a Nobody or a Heartless because he has a heart right?Ven is connected to Sora in someway and Roxas too, but not brother or father.
I have just noticed that all the characters connected to Kairi and Sora look the same,so there might just be something new out there.
Like Naminé is Kairi's nobody, but what is Xion? Kairi's alternate ego's nobody or something?
I think we are all just jumping to conclusions, and we should wait and see.

 

Xion looks more like Kairi than Namine does in my opinion. Yeah, that would make sense if Xion's birth had something to do with memories, seeing as though Namine can control memories and all this weird sh*t. And there's an obvious connection between all of them, I'm not saying Axel is Riku's nobody, but it MIGHT make sense for him to have a little connection? Axel was trying to get Roxas back, like Riku was trying to get Kairi back in Kingdom Hearts, Axel turns good at the end of Kingdom Hearts II, Riku turns good at the end of Kingdom Hearts, they both have long spiky hair, they are both taller than Sora, Roxas, Kairi, and so on. So there MIGHT be a connection between the two, and when we look back at Kingdom Hearts, Riku, Kairi, and Sora sat/stand on the same tree that Roxas, Axel, and Xion are sitting/standing on, I'm not sure if that's just a touching MEMORY that Nomura was trying to put in the game for some fans to make them feel better that Xion is totally fu*ked at the end of the game. A lot of it seems to represent things that have already happened before (the connections). I'm not saying that Master Xehanort is Xehanort but think about it, Master Xehanort summons the same Kingdom Hearts that Xemnas (Xehanort's nobody, remember that) summoned in Kingdom Hearts II (it seems a lot of these things repeat in Kingdom Hearts II), I'm sure that's not just a conwisidence, seeing as though Ansem tried to get to Kingdom Hearts in the first Kingdom Hearts, but failed, just like Xemnas, and who's to say that Master Xehanort won't fail? Anyway, all of the Xehanorts in the game, including Xemnas and Ansem, have always had something to do with hearts, so even IF Master Xehanort didn't summon Kingdom Hearts for his own use, he sure as hell screwed up Ven's heart, which was in the trailer, so that means that Ven couldn't be a unbirth if he has a heart...but maybe Master Xehanort like took it from him, which is what Xehanort/Ansem did to Riku, screwed up his heart, and Ansem made Riku have that dark suit, Master Xehanort must have done something to his lackey to make him have the dark suit and give his heart to darkness if he told Terra to fix HIS mistake. Wow...I was trying to talk about Xion's birth, then I got to all of the Xehanorts in all of the games...loi.

Here's the link for the Ansem Reports:http://www.kh2.co.uk/?kh=Reports

Just google Secret Ansem Reports to find the Ansem Reports from Kingdom Hearts II, kay?​

Nomura already said that there were only relationships between the characters through connections, not being related like family.

@Zexion: It hasn't been confirmed that Ven is an unbirth yet, but he's totally not Sora's father/brother/cousin/uncle/sister o_O​

Yeah, there are NO relationships between the characters genetically. So it would have to be something else, and I agree that it wouldn't be that simple since it's coming from Nomura and they've been working on it longer than any of the other two games.​

It's funner to make thought out theories than jump to conclusions and have to wait.​

 

I have stared at 4 pics for awhile and this is what I think....Xion looks a lot like KH1 Kairi...and Namine looks a lot like Kh2 kairi...hmmm...isn't this awkward?

 

Thank god they aren't related. But the question still remains of their connection altogether. I'm sticking with the pausible idea of Ven have making Sora a Keyblade Wielder behind Terra's back or maybe it happened during his disappearance?

I'm not excatly sure if Unbirths can actually wield keyblades. But I could be wrong.