Kingdom Hearts II Zexion's grave

o_O

I think this debate is awesome. Good work Dredica, u've done well. The point i was trying to make in the beginning was that Zexion is more important than we think. Xigbar was trying to tell Zexion something in the FM+ clip. Why kill off Zexion so fast, without telling us what he knew? I'm gonna go with the Replica theory, Does anyone know how many times Axels died?! Vexen's Replica stuff must've proved very useful. Plus, do you really think some 13year old kid with a keyblade could kill off all of the org's members so quickly? It's not right, theres something going on that we don't even know, and won't even expect in 358/2 days, and BBS. And for those of u who are telling me that this should be in 358/2 days section, i don't care. i say it could be in either...o_O

 

Yes i completely agree.

 

Yeah seriously. How COULD Sora kill all of the members. I think Rku could have killed off most of them, but with like his last resort moves when he uses darkness. Sora has nothing REALLY special about him. Then whats up with the data of the members? The data from kh2fm+. I think that something is wrong with the organaztion too.

 

*ICSP GOES INTO JUDGE MODE* Look at my sig to see what judgmode is.

@ Everyone... Zexions only like 17, not 19. Everyone who has jumbo shoes is a minor, its a Square thing. Zexion has jumbo shoes.

However, this does not make him inexperienced, or a noob to the Org. Being of the original 6 he is one of the most experienced. He has proven, from his roll in CoM ReRe, that he is a mastermind, a leader and a manipulator.

If you look at every cutscene, he appeares to be leading Lex, and Vexen, even though he is ranked lower than each of them numerically. Also, he is not a warrior type. He uses his brain and intelligence to defeat his opponent rather than his brawn like Lex. He even brags about it "I do things differntly than him."

@ Everyone, the Manga is not canon... its just the same story told differently. The changes in the story are trumped by what happens in the game.

@ khsuperfan, take it easy, it looks like your instigating, I dont want you to get banned for it.

@ Dredica, Sora is stronger than Riku. Even when Riku uses all the powers of darkness. So how could Riku do something Sora couldn't do? Both of them can take out certain members of the org single handedly, but niether could take out the entire org sigle handedly.

@ Everyone... This debate is really getting out of hand. If it doesnt calm down, and yand the flames keep going, it will be closed by a mod.

PS: Once again I ask... why is this in the BbS section rather than the K2 section? Don't say its because the org members existed before KH1, because we dont even know if any org members will be in BbS. At all...

 

Sora is not stronger than Riku. Case closed.

 

I like riku way more than sora but sora has proven he could beat riku and thats off the point.I agree with ICSP that zexion seemed in control.If he doesn't come in Later then Lexicon will.

 

Okay, remember in kingdom hearts Chain of memories? When Riku (regular) was fighting Zexion? Zexion took the physical apperance of Sora, Riku didn't want to hurt Sora, becuase he didn't understand why Sora wanted to hurt him. I think Riku just didn't want to hurt Sora in kingdom hearts. Plus it was Ansem taking Riku over in kh1 too. So maybe Sora might be able to kill Ansem, but not Riku. Riku shows mercy, where as Sora didn't.

 

To First post: The grave (not gave) was broken because the creator did not want to think about/spoil his weapon.

To Dredica: Calm down. Step back from the keyboard and consider, "is this comment adding to the discussion?" Saying someone is or is not a kingdom hearts fan is pointless. Also, if someone does not get your view point, try to explain, not flame. You look like you have potential.

To whoever brought up the Manga: The manga is loosely based on the main plot. In the game, repliku dies, no question about it. In the manga, there are a million more clones. This is not in the game. The manga has no standing in the game KH, and vice versa.The manga is not canon. If you insist on arguing, do it in the manga section. You may get a post about Zexion to slide in here, but Manga in the BbS would be off topic.

To Riku is stronger than Sora: I honestly doubt it. Riku lost the darkness, and he does not know the tricks Sora does. Seen Riku drive? Anyway, I don't want to fight about that. They both kllled some Org members. Sora did admittedly kill more.

To Vexen is still alive: The death seemed final to me. Also we have seen no Vexen clones. Manga is not canon, so he is truly dead.

To Zexion is # years old: It does not matter. It makes no difference what-so-ever. I would go so far to say that Nobodies do not age.

Now, anyone have anything else to fight about? If so, count to twenty before you post, and play nice!

 

Dredica your constantly going off the subject and flaming.Stick to the subject of Zexion and his existance and stop flaming.
P.S:In a number of cases it has been said that Zexion Is just older than roxas even though his age doesn't matter he's still more powerful than must members.

 

Damn, missed one topic.

Zexion's strength: Zexion is not really comparable to other members, as he relies on brain power, opposed to brawn. Saying he is stronger or weaker than say... Axel would prove nothing. It would be like arguing what is better, Coca-cola or petrol. They are completely different, and they are uncomparable.

Besides, why does he matter to BbS, really? This is certainly in the wrong section. BbS is in the past, so whether Zexion lived or died in KH2 is of no concern to this game. Same with BbS. Also, it might have been another forum I was in, but arn't strength fights banned? They generally disolve into "You Stupid ****, Riku is far superior to Sora, he has darkness!" especially when the person in question has only one or two scenes showing their power. So, I think I will go out on a limb, and say that Kairi is so much stronger than Ariel. Have fun trying to prove me wrong!

 

THANK GOD! I like this judge mode...its a lot easier to debate with/against...
anyway, im glad someone understands that "age" and "time in the organization are two completely different things... I regret bringing up the topic...and yes I agree that Sora is stronger than Riku...in my opinion, Riku is cooler and has better control of the keyblade, but in the end theirs no getting past Sora's trump card (the huge beam of light) or the fact that his heart is wayyy more powerful than riku's
case and point:

riku exposed to a little darkness (ansem's power/ malificent's influence) and he gets completely taken over by ansem, with the later effects being that ansem's power still remains in his heart and riku cannot get away from it (of course in kh2 this is cleared up later on)

Sora loses his heart: (the ultimate exposure to darkness) and all he gets later is anti-form, which he cannot control, but he can completely avoid it.

 

That is off the point and completely unrelated to this subject please get back onto the subject of Zexion.

 

...

 

...

 

Thats what I was getting to, but I don't want to start a new thread about that.

Okay, Riku chose to let the darkness take him over. He wanted to be the most powerful being he could be, and by thruth, darkness could help him. So thats why he used the darkness. He had complete control over his actions.

 

Off topic... but I will still refute you. He was not in complete control. In fact Xehanorts Heartless controlled him up until CoM. He willingly gave himself to the darkness... but darkness consumed him. Dont you play Final Fantasy? Thats what always happens. Riku had no control over himself when he was in Ansem form until KH2.

 

Okay. This is ridiculous. How did we get from a simple question of "can Zexion return" to Riku being in control of darkness?

Dredica, I can understand, you like Riku. Got it. But that does not mean he is perfect. He was irrational, and let the darkness control him.

First, he opens the Door in Destiny islands, letting heartless destroy the island. The proof of this is in CoM, in Reverse rebirth, in Destiny islands, where Zexion tells him what he did. So this gave him a slight affliction with Darkness. (I will be nice, and say that this was his choice)

Then he met Malificent, and she brainwashed him into thinking Sora no longer cared for him, and she granted him power over darkness, corrupting his heart further. He was not in control of this, as in neverland, we are told by Riku that the Darkness obeyed him. (Also we know that darkness always corrupts, letting you think you are in control.)

Next Malificent tells Riku that he was the true keyblade master, and that he could take the keyblade. Riku does so, then looses it to Sora. He flees, wanting more power, so he opens himself to get more power. Ansem gets into him, and he constructs a tempory blade from the princesses hearts. He then attacks Sora. Sora wins, and Ansem reveals himself. Riku comes to his senses, and blocks Ansem. Then in CoM, he is plagued by the remnants of Ansem in his heart.

 

Pika_power is right. Riku is not flawless.

Zexion will probably never return aside from 358/2 days.

I say we just let the thread die. Its for the better...

Plays music for the thread

Takes off hat... :(

(I'm not posting on this thread any more)

 

This is all kind of getting out of hand so I thought I'd comment with what I know and hopefully it will help put some of this debate at rest and well answer the original poster as well.

To answer the real question...
Zexion was dead, so that's why the grave is broken, of course. As for why his weapon part was missing, this was intentionally done by Nomura and he stated such in an interview or two. He did say he -had- a weapon but wanted to save it as a surprise. What the weapon is gets shown in KH2:FM+, which is a Lexicon.

Another thing about Zexion. - All of the Nobodies are stuck in the ages they are in, similar to vampires in a way. They have retained the same appearance for the 10+ years they've been stuck that way in the Nobody state. Zexion was supposed to be 17 and considered a genius. He was the youngest apprentice and final apprentice of Ansem the Wise. He definitely wasn't 19. If you tack on the years he's been a Nobody though, he'd be 27.

As for the debate whether his -age- matters, since he is the -youngest- member of the Org other than Roxas, I do not believe so. As others pointed out, he is one of the original six from 10 years ago (KH2 time, and 9 years ago in KH time). He crossed over to Darkness along with the other top members and knew about what was going on in the past. Anyone under Zexion pretty much was -not- one of the founding members. He did have a standing and that is clear, regardless of his age.

Lastly, Zexion -did- die in KH: CoM. Riku Replica did absorb his power etc and destroy him after Riku defeated him. The Manga is not canon. If Zexion were alive, his tombstone would not be cracked.

As for the Riku and Sora debate...

Riku and Sora are both pretty powerful, though they were not the most powerful in the games, obviously and needed each other and their friends. It's kind of the theme of KH. The three characters, Sora, Kairi and Riku are all adept in their ways and cover for each other well, even if we don't see much of Kairi's talents yet. I'd consider opening a doorway from Darkness and changing Sora back to normal from a Shadow though as proof she has power. All 3 I think are on par with each other in power...just not in the same ways. Riku does have more raw power and strength and innate ability than Sora does. However, Sora has magic spells, magic clothes, he's very fast and has a ton of abilities and techniques he uses well so he maximizes what he has. I really think if Sora and Riku actually go at it, it truly depends who is having the better luck for who is going to win the fight. There is no proof that Riku is more powerful than Sora or that Sora is more powerful than Riku. However, they do seem to have things one or the other is better at, which is normal. I'm pretty assured that it is all meant to be that way and we will probably note the same sort of thing with Terra, Ven and Aqua when we see them in BBS, as well as in KH3 someday, Kairi will show more of her powers too (and maybe more clothes too).

So, how about let's stop ripping into each other about Sora vs Riku and well, just move on to the actual debate at hand? There's nothing proving either one is superior vs the other. They have personality differences too and -both- have flaws and merits and they both helped each other through those flaws by using their merits. If they did not aid each other or have friends who cared, both would have been history.